Vaccination vs. Crack Pipes & Syringes

[UNTLifer]

You get removed from a transplant list if you are not vaxxed, but taxes will potentially fund legal drug houses for addicts. Discuss

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

You get removed from a transplant list if you are not vaxxed, but taxes will potentially fund legal drug houses for addicts. Discuss

You get removed from a transplant list for not taking medical advice from the surgeon performing the transplant. Post transplant you will be very very immunosuppressed.. vaccinations are required. Shocking. Trying to increase survival for the person that does end up getting the organ.

You are comparing stupid things - not even related. However, if they were related it is about the "drug house" shows deaths from ODs go down. Since brushing the drugs underground don't help.. 

They are both measures to increase survival of people involved. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[Cr1028]

14 hours ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

However, if they were related it is about the "drug house" shows deaths from ODs go down. Since brushing the drugs underground don't help.. 

I don’t follow. Could you clarify?
 

Personally, I think all drugs should be legalized, regulated, and taxed.

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Cr1028

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

2 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

I don’t follow. Could you clarify? Personally, I think all drugs should be legalized, regulated, and taxed.

I'm saying that tax dollars going to some safe house to do drugs safely in a monitored environment to prevent OD deaths - serves the same purpose as denying a (riskier) person a very precious and rare organ transplant that has hundreds of people in line behind them. The ultimate goal is to save lives. That's the only tangential relationship between the topics Lifer is bringing up - as if they are even remotely similar topics.

I agree with both courses.

[UNTLifer]

Of course, doing crack and heroin is saving the user’s life. 🙄

The reason I bring it up is because our government decides to use our dollars to allow someone to kill themselves slowly by using illegal drugs that have no purpose when the same tax dollars could be used to save these people through rehab.  On the flip side, they reject someone receiving true life saving treatment, in this case an organ transplant, because they chose to not take a vaccine that doesn’t keep them from catching a virus that has a 97%+ survival rate. And, nobody knows the long term negative effects of the “vaccine”.  In a nutshell, they approve the use of illegal drugs and deny life saving treatment which would contradict their “ultimate goal”.

Edited February 10, 2022 by UNTLifer

[Cr1028]

3 hours ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

I'm saying that tax dollars going to some safe house to do drugs safely in a monitored environment to prevent OD deaths - serves the same purpose as denying a (riskier) person a very precious and rare organ transplant that has hundreds of people in line behind them. The ultimate goal is to save lives. That's the only tangential relationship between the topics Lifer is bringing up - as if they are even remotely similar topics.

I agree with both courses.

Oh I didn’t care about the comparison part, I just wanted clarification on the OD part. Makes sense the way you put it.

[MeanGreenPatriot]

4 hours ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

I'm saying that tax dollars going to some safe house to do drugs safely in a monitored environment to prevent OD deaths - serves the same purpose as denying a (riskier) person a very precious and rare organ transplant that has hundreds of people in line behind them. The ultimate goal is to save lives. That's the only tangential relationship between the topics Lifer is bringing up - as if they are even remotely similar topics.

I agree with both courses.

Should people that drink and smoke be removed from donor lists as well? After all, everyone knows the health risks of alcohol and tobacco. Also, should fat people be removed? Lots of health complications due to obesity. Not taking medical advice and losing weight like Drs prescribe should be cause for removal, correct?

[Cr1028]

4 hours ago, MeanGreenPatriot said:

Should people that drink and smoke be removed from donor lists as well? After all, everyone knows the health risks of alcohol and tobacco. Also, should fat people be removed? Lots of health complications due to obesity. Not taking medical advice and losing weight like Drs prescribe should be cause for removal, correct?

I thought you already got kicked down or off the list for that stuff. Maybe a medical expert can chime in and set the record straight.

[LongJim]

Mixed feelings on the dollars for dopers thing.  I think sensible methods to reduce the spread of disease is a good idea. 

In general, I think if a community has a need for it, and feels it would serve that community to have the service, then it should be financed at that level of government--if government must fund it at all.  It's not the job of the federal government, and federal tax dollars shouldn't be spent on it.

[MGNation92]

Crack Cocaine, a substance that disproportionately affects inner city and African American communities, possibly introduced by our own agencies (looking at you CIA).

Joe Biden sponsors the heinous '94 Crime Bill that leads to SKYROCKETING incarceration rates, again disproportionately affecting the inner city African American communities, including harsher sentencing for crack use over powder cocaine.

Then, nearly 30 years later, further enables abuse in these same communities on the taxpayers dime. Tack on the fact that slavery is LEGAL in the prison system, and having a VP who was a notoriously harsh DA in California, especially towards drug offenders.

Are they really helping these communities? Or do they really just love the free labor?

I'm not making this a Right vs Left thing, I just think it's a continuation of aiding people who have already been affected by these harsh policing policies towards eventual imprisonment and/or death.

Something the government loves to do. Imprison and murder it's own citizens. 

[Dannymacfan]

I don't think many of you have had to deal with friends and family members who have drug problems and addictions.  It is very sad and yes, if we can keep them from hurting themselves we should?  Aren't there bigger issues for us to battle out there?  I hate when the stupid conservatives misrepresent stuff like this.  Dumb.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

[LongJim]

28 minutes ago, Dannymacfan said:

I don't think many of you have had to deal with friends and family members who have drug problems and addictions.

I think you'd be surprised at how many folks have experience with what you describe.  And who those people might be.

Different suggestions or ideas about how to address the issue don't necessarily mean that people don't have compassion or desire to help in some way.

[GMG_Dallas]

1 hour ago, Dannymacfan said:

I don't think many of you have had to deal with friends and family members who have drug problems and addictions.  It is very sad and yes, if we can keep them from hurting themselves we should?  Aren't there bigger issues for us to battle out there?  I hate when the stupid conservatives misrepresent stuff like this.  Dumb.

Maybe you don't realize how many people commit crimes to supply their drug abuse and/or commit crimes once under the influence. So they get high in a safe location and then we release them into the streets a few hours later once they're under the influence to go do their shenanigans that endanger the public? Seems great. You may see the sad part in watching somebody you care about destroy themselves but some of us have seen the sad part in watching them victimize their community.

If you've known somebody who's suffered from drug abuse like you say, you also know a drug user won't get clean until THEY decide to do so. No amount of jail, rehab, or clean drug use facilities will help that until they decide they want change. Enabling drug use on the tax payer's dime certainly seems contrary to the ultimate goal.

For now, I guess just more blind liberals living in lala land turning criminals into victims.

 

[El Paso Eagle]

4 hours ago, Dannymacfan said:

I don't think many of you have had to deal with friends and family members who have drug problems and addictions.  It is very sad and yes, if we can keep them from hurting themselves we should?  Aren't there bigger issues for us to battle out there?  I hate when the stupid conservatives misrepresent stuff like this.  Dumb.

If they don't agree with you they must be stupid. What a deep thinker you are.

Edited February 10, 2022 by El Paso Eagle

[CaribbeanGreen]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article258225703.html

[Quoner]

30 minutes ago, CaribbeanGreen said:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article258225703.html

Exactly the kind of fake news article Tony Montana's PR machine could get placed down there. SMH...

[Coffee and TV]

11 hours ago, MeanGreenPatriot said:

Should people that drink and smoke be removed from donor lists as well? After all, everyone knows the health risks of alcohol and tobacco. Also, should fat people be removed? Lots of health complications due to obesity. Not taking medical advice and losing weight like Drs prescribe should be cause for removal, correct?

Yes, it happens all the time. Surgeons won't waste a liver on an alcoholic who hasn't stopped drinking. They won't waste any organs on someone who refuses to update their vaccinations because as stated previously: transplant recipients are severely immunocompromised and Covid is slightly contagious. 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

13 hours ago, MeanGreenPatriot said:

Should people that drink and smoke be removed from donor lists as well? After all, everyone knows the health risks of alcohol and tobacco. Also, should fat people be removed? Lots of health complications due to obesity. Not taking medical advice and losing weight like Drs prescribe should be cause for removal, correct?

Dude, get this - you won't believe your eyes. Since it is a private industry, listen for real, people are denied transplants because they can't long term financial meet the commitments of life POST transplant. That includes thousands of dollars a month in treatments and medications. It goes way beyond just being denied a transplant because you are a risky individual who ignores medical orders/advice. 

But yes, all the time surgeries are postponed and cancelled because a patient has failed to uphold their end of the bargain to meet the requirements of surgery. This isn't only for transplantations - it is for routine operations like hernia and orthopedics. True story. I know you are shocked that private industry can do such things. 

[GMG_Dallas]

4 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

Dude, get this - you won't believe your eyes. Since it is a private industry, listen for real, people are denied transplants because they can't long term financial meet the commitments of life POST transplant. That includes thousands of dollars a month in treatments and medications. It goes way beyond just being denied a transplant because you are a risky individual who ignores medical orders/advice. 

First,  there are no medical orders. Anybody can deny any kind of treatment they don't want. Second, by federal law, a hospital that accepts Medicare (which is most hospitals) can't deny a person treatment based on their ability to pay or whether or not they have health insurance. It's how all the doped up homeless get their healthcare. So if you're reasoning is true that it's due to concerns an unvaccinated can't foot the bill, the hospitals are violating EMTALA. Third, if we're going to stop treating people because they may not survive the procedures to pay their bills down the line, are we going to stop treating cancer patients who have aggressive forms of cancer? What about a smoker with lung cancer or an alcoholic with liver disease?

Let's start using some common sense, here.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

3 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

First,  there are no medical orders. Anybody can deny any kind of treatment they don't want. Second, by federal law, a hospital that accepts Medicare (which is most hospitals) can't deny a person treatment based on their ability to pay or whether or not they have health insurance. It's how all the doped up homeless get their healthcare. So if you're reasoning is true that it's due to concerns an unvaccinated can't foot the bill, the hospitals are violating EMTALA. Third, if we're going to stop treating people because they may not survive the procedures to pay their bills down the line, are we going to stop treating cancer patients who have aggressive forms of cancer? What about a smoker with lung cancer or an alcoholic with liver disease?

Let's start using some common sense, here.

You are completely wrong. Completely. There are medical "orders" - quit being pedantic. You can obviously ignore them. There is freedom in choice, but still consequences.

If you think poor people get the same rate of care, you're naive. You can deny treatment on ability to pay. At the ER they'll stabilize you and then kick you out to the Dallas county ER. There, you'll end up on a wait list for an outpatient clinic to run the tests to diagnose the root cause.. but in the meantime you get on a payment plan for the ER bills and it overwhelms you and your family. So you never show to your appointment five months later at the clinic. 

That person is *not* getting an organ transplant. 

 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

3 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Third, if we're going to stop treating people because they may not survive the procedures to pay their bills down the line,

I think you should actually read what I wrote. I never claimed that, nor that unvaccinated Covid ICU patients not getting treatment because they can't pay.. i didn't even remotely claim that.

I never brought up Covid patients at all.

To get an organ transplant, you have to have financial means to afford post transplantation. Period. If you don't and you can't get a charity or church too st et p up - you are bypassed. 

If you have cirrhosis and need a liver, if you're still drinking or taking prevented medicines, you are bypassed and likely removed from the list completely.

If you go in with active Covid and need a vent, smell like whiskey, cigarettes weighing 250lbs - yes, you'll get treatment for your symptoms. You will not get a new liver.

 

[MeanGreenPatriot]

4 hours ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

Dude, get this - you won't believe your eyes. Since it is a private industry, listen for real, people are denied transplants because they can't long term financial meet the commitments of life POST transplant. That includes thousands of dollars a month in treatments and medications. It goes way beyond just being denied a transplant because you are a risky individual who ignores medical orders/advice. 

But yes, all the time surgeries are postponed and cancelled because a patient has failed to uphold their end of the bargain to meet the requirements of surgery. This isn't only for transplantations - it is for routine operations like hernia and orthopedics. True story. I know you are shocked that private industry can do such things. 

Simple question so guessing your answer is yes. Thanks for your feedback.

[GMG_Dallas]

51 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

If you think poor people get the same rate of care, you're naive. You can deny treatment on ability to pay. At the ER they'll stabilize you and then kick you out to the Dallas county ER. There, you'll end up on a wait list for an outpatient clinic to run the tests to diagnose the root cause.. but in the meantime you get on a payment plan for the ER bills and it overwhelms you and your family. So you never show to your appointment five months later at the clinic. 

 

Luckily, despite growing up below the poverty line myself, I was never shipped around hospitals whenever I needed treatment because we were poor. I don't know why some of y'all think poor people are constantly being mistreated. Many poor people are getting better care than middle class people. A few years back, I wasn't making as much money and we were struggling. Each time my kids had to go to Children's Hospital or Baylor ER nearby, the hospital financial aid covered every penny after CHIP kicked in. Couldn't afford health insurance and couldn't afford to pay out of pocket but we were never turned away anywhere and we were never shipped around the metroplex like you claim. My dad had his second of two recent surgeries at medical city dallas last summer despite being unemployed and uninsured. He had been receiving medical care for several months, spent time in a rehab facility, and had a home Healthcare nurse come weekly despite being unemployed and uninsured.

I'm sorry you think private hospitals all over the place are letting poor people die because they have no money. 

[MeanGreenPatriot]

38 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Luckily, despite growing up below the poverty line myself, I was never shipped around hospitals whenever I needed treatment because we were poor. I don't know why some of y'all think poor people are constantly being mistreated. Many poor people are getting better care than middle class people. A few years back, I wasn't making as much money and we were struggling. Each time my kids had to go to Children's Hospital or Baylor ER nearby, the hospital financial aid covered every penny after CHIP kicked in. Couldn't afford health insurance and couldn't afford to pay out of pocket but we were never turned away anywhere and we were never shipped around the metroplex like you claim. My dad had his second of two recent surgeries at medical city dallas last summer despite being unemployed and uninsured. He had been receiving medical care for several months, spent time in a rehab facility, and had a home Healthcare nurse come weekly despite being unemployed and uninsured.

I'm sorry you think private hospitals all over the place are letting poor people die because they have no money. 

Uh oh, you are stirring up some major sh*t. You are killing a certain narrative.