Seth is here to stay we need to accept it

UNT Texas Hooligan · December 30, 2021

10 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

I don’t know what job status has any thing to do with being a head coach. You already have the status and expectations by having that title. What comp level would make you happy with Seth? I think for most fans the $$$ amount doesn’t matter, winning does.

Man, are you really not following this? Job status, as in whether they should keep their job or should be fired. At this point, nothing would make me happy with Seth. I want him gone no matter what, I've wanted him gone. But he is also in his 6th year as head coach with nothing to show for it but a fat paycheck. If we had a newer head coach not getting paid nearly as much to do the job, of course I would temper my expectations a bit. Not saying I would accept it, but I would understand what he is working with and be much more patient than I currently am with Seth. Look at UTEP fans. They knew their pay for football head coach was bottom of the barrel for years so they knew they wouldn't be able to hire a coach worth a damn and they were pretty much resigned to the fact they would stay bottom of the barrel until they hired a new AD that upped the coach's pay which has in turn brought them some better results. The more money invested, the higher the expectations. Basic stuff

Edited December 30, 2021 by UNT Texas Hooligan

NorthTexasWeLove · December 30, 2021

51 minutes ago, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

Man, are you really not following this? Job status, as in whether they should keep their job or should be fired. At this point, nothing would make me happy with Seth. I want him gone no matter what, I've wanted him gone. But he is also in his 6th year as head coach with nothing to show for it but a fat paycheck. If we had a newer head coach not getting paid nearly as much to do the job, of course I would temper my expectations a bit. Not saying I would accept it, but I would understand what he is working with and be much more patient than I currently am with Seth. Look at UTEP fans. They knew their pay for football head coach was bottom of the barrel for years so they knew they wouldn't be able to hire a coach worth a damn and they were pretty much resigned to the fact they would stay bottom of the barrel until they hired a new AD that upped the coach's pay which has in turn brought them some better results. The more money invested, the higher the expectations. Basic stuff

Technically, his 6th year is all wrapped up. He's working on number 7.

UNT Texas Hooligan · December 30, 2021

39 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Technically, his 6th year is all wrapped up. He's working on number 7.

Even worse

meangreenbob · December 30, 2021

On 12/29/2021 at 8:19 AM, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

At this point, let me put on my tinfoil hat. There is no reason a sub .500 coach with an 0-5 bowl record and atrocious record against teams with a winning record should still have a job after 6 years at any program in the country.

Yep. Something ain’t right. Let Baker and Littrell fund the AC expansion. They have the money.

It seems we’re being played for fools.

Edited December 30, 2021 by meangreenbob

southsideguy · December 31, 2021

If we are happy with SL getting us out of the ditch maybe we should have stayed in the CUSA were we can compete for third place.

MeanGreenTexan · December 31, 2021

3 hours ago, southsideguy said:

If we are happy with SL getting us out of the ditch maybe we should have stayed in the CUSA were we can compete for third place.

Bingo.

Striving for 6-6 and bowl games was good enough for me while NT was piddling around in the Sun Belt & C-USA, but we’re trying to go even higher now. .500 cannot be acceptable anymore. SL changed expectations around here, just like Dickey did. Sadly, neither one could sustain those expectations.

Mike Jackson · December 31, 2021

On 12/29/2021 at 2:10 PM, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

I mean I’m not saying money is or isn’t the problem, but we definitely aren’t the most rich school in the conference.
Our numbers for donors, money from donations etc are bottom of CUSA.

I don’t doubt that. But why are the donations at the bottom?
Answer: Because of 30 years of bad decisions other than stepping back up to the FBS level.

1. Move up to FBS without upgrading Fouts Field significantly on just building a new stadium then.

2. The only serious Head Coaching hires they made were Dickey, McCarney, and Seth The McCarney was a makeup hire for a laughable hiring decision. None of the other coaches they hired had the resume and/or brought a supporting staff with them qualified for coaching FBS level Football.

3. In the past 36 years donor have watched other programs start programs from scratch (FAU, UTSA, FIU) and either keep pace with us or far exceed us in on the field accomplishments in their short existence. Also teams like UAB, Liberty and ODU restarted FBS programs and outperformed us.

So in 2022 with all that bad equity built up you can’t offer up ANY relevant excuses. I am one of those few donors. So they can play this wait and save game if they want to. But if they swing and Miss on the next hire allowing Seth to coach 2022 they will lose another longtime donor and I won’t be back. And it would be hard for me to understand why anyone not worth millions would dump significant money into the program. Because….

This ineptitude is embarrassing to alumni if you publicly claim you are serious about winning.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Mike Jackson

Wag Tag · December 31, 2021

Edited December 31, 2021 by Wag Tag

Mike Jackson · December 31, 2021

30 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

🤷🏽‍♂️ Just summaries Seth has done less with more?

Wag Tag · December 31, 2021

6 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

🤷🏽‍♂️ Just summaries Seth has done less with more?

Money and donor support is not the issue when it comes to buying out Seth.

NorthTexasSportsNetwork · December 31, 2021

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

Money and donor support is not the issue when it comes to buying out Seth.

That was pulled out of that persons ass, here is what I gathered from the MGSF site.

Marshall is first in number of donors at 3,291, while UNT sits at around 1,419 which is 10th.

EDIT: I quoted the wrong post but it was from you, but I’m not 100% sure on how top end donors are involved in the firing process but I would think there is some involvement.

Edited December 31, 2021 by NorthTexasSportsNetwork

meangreen11 · December 31, 2021

15 minutes ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

That was pulled out of that persons ass, here is what I gathered from the MGSF site.

Marshall is first in number of donors at 3,291, while UNT sits at around 1,419 which is 10th.

EDIT: I quoted the wrong post but it was from you, but I’m not 100% sure on how top end donors are involved in the firing process but I would think there is some involvement.

So I have no idea where you are pulling your numbers from but they are way off. Secondly, donor dollars are a small component of the overall athletic budget. The size of the school and the student fee percentages and the revenue that creates is why schools like UNT and Charlotte were able to enter the AAC. I also seriously doubt that a UNT site would be posting these numbers and that is probably why you aren't including a link.

flyonthewall · December 31, 2021

Ok. To address why there might be some patience. First throw lovelace out. He is a business man and will not stand in the way if North Texas decides it is time to part ways with Coach Litrell.

There are two examples of why patience and continuity could be the correct answer. #1 Gary Patterson. In 2004 he went 5-6 and 3-5 in conference. In year 4..... Then backed that up the next year with a 11-1 season and ranked 11th in the a.p. poll. Many on this board have stated multiple times that we are a quarterback away from being really good.

#2 I'm not going to look it up, but many Michigan fans have been clamoring for firing Harbaugh prior to this season. If the a.d. there would have had a hair trigger, would they be sitting today in the top 4 playing for a National Championship?

The bowl game record stinks. I agree with that. But this is not a 6-7 team that was on a downward trajectory toward the end of the season. This is a 6-7 team that because of undisciplined play, lost a game to Liberty that it should have won, then the lights came on and ran off 5 in a row, one game against a decent utep squad and then utsa. If the team was "lost", then that would have never happened regardless of talent.

I am not disagreeing with you guys about anything you are saying, I am just presenting the other side as I see it. The quarterback thing is baffling, going all the way back to McCarney days and the shit show after Derek Thompson graduated. Andrew McNulty is a great guy and I see him at all or almost all of our home games, but he wasn't a very good quarterback.

One thing that both Coach Dickey and Coach Dodge always had was a quarterback that operated well in their system. I can't understand why we can't go out and find a kid with the "it" factor. Doesn't have to be tall, needs a servicable arm and just by god knows how to win?

Anyway, one last thing, in all the years I have been supporting this institution, I have never once threatened to stop being a donor. Sometimes it feels like I am bashing my head up against the wall. This tailgate thing that we do has turned in to a four day process, starting Thursday and ending on Sunday when we clean up and sanitize all equipment. But I am not quitting. I have faith that the leadership in this university will continue to make the correct decisions to put our kids in the best place possible to succeed. That means facilities, new conference, education.....all of it. On a whole, I am confident that my donations are helping. We provide young people with an opportunity to get an education that many of them could not afford otherwise.

Now, its on to the Rice Owls. Its basketball season and we are damn good!!!!

Go Mean Green!!!!!

Edited December 31, 2021 by flyonthewall

Wag Tag · December 31, 2021

6 minutes ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

That was pulled out of that persons ass, here is what I gathered from the MGSF site.

Marshall is first in number of donors at 3,291, while UNT sits at around 1,419 which is 10th.

EDIT: I quoted the wrong post but it was from you, but I’m not 100% sure on how top end donors are involved in the firing process but I would think there is some involvement.

The dickens are in the details. The IPF alone costs $16m with 2 donor families putting in $2m each totaling $4m. Nobody in C-USA has the facilities we do that was partially done with donor money. Like every university major donors have a major impact on the decisions of the AD as they should. I feel that the Seth situation is a little more complicated because of his very close personal relationship with a major donor. Best for all is Seth’s wins next year and is hired away. GMG

greengal · December 31, 2021

5 minutes ago, flyonthewall said:

Ok. To address why there might be some patience. First throw lovelace out. He is a business man and will not stand in the way if North Texas decides it is time to part ways with Coach Litrell.

There are two examples of why patience and continuity could be the correct answer. #1 Gary Patterson. In 2004 he went 5-6 and 3-5 in conference. Then backed that up the next year with a 11-1 season and ranked 11th in the a.p. poll. Many on this board have stated multiple times that we are a quarterback away from being really good.

#2 I'm not going to look it up, but many Michigan fans have been clamoring for firing Harbaugh prior to this season. If the a.d. there would have had a hair trigger, would they be sitting today in the top 4 playing for a National Championship?

The bowl game record stinks. I agree with that. But this is not a 6-7 team that was on a downward trajectory toward the end of the season. This is a 6-7 team that because of undisciplined play, lost a game to Liberty that it should have won, then the lights came on and ran off 5 in a row, one game against a decent utep squad and then utsa. If the team was "lost", then that would have never happened regardless of talent.

I am not disagreeing with you guys about anything you are saying, I am just presenting the other side as I see it. The quarterback thing is baffling, going all the way back to McCarney days and the shit show after Derek Thompson graduated. Andrew McNulty is a great guy and I see him at all or almost all of our home games, but he wasn't a very good quarterback.

One thing that both Coach Dickey and Coach Dodge always had was a quarterback that operated well in their system. I can't understand why we can't go out and find a kid with the "it" factor. Doesn't have to be tall, needs a servicable arm and just by god knows how to win?

Anyway, one last thing, in all the years I have been supporting this institution, I have never once threatened to stop being a donor. Sometimes it feels like I am bashing my head up against the wall. This tailgate thing that we do has turned in to four day process, starting Thursday and ending on Sunday when we clean up and sanitize all equipment. But I am not quitting. I have faith that the leadership in this university will continue to make the correct decisions to put our kids in the best place possible to succeed. That means facilities, new conference, education.....all of it. On a whole, I am confident that my donations are helping. We provide young people with an opportunity to get and education that many of them could not afford otherwise.

Now, its on to the Rice Owls. Its basketball season and we are damn good!!!!

Go Mean Green!!!!!

Agree 100% and thank you for all you do to support the college. I think we need to give Seth more of our support and show him that we care. We people or coaches get down you love em up and tell them that you believe in them. That is exactly what TCU did with Gary.

flyonthewall · December 31, 2021

9 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

The dickens are in the details. The IPF alone costs $16m with 2 donor families putting in $2m each totaling $4m. Nobody in C-USA has the facilities we do that was partially done with donor money. Like every university major donors have a major impact on the decisions of the AD as they should. I feel that the Seth situation is a little more complicated because of his very close personal relationship with a major donor. Best for all is Seth’s wins next year and is hired away. GMG

I think he needs two years of sustained success to get hired away. Find an above average quarterback and that is not far fetched. You are correct....

Wag Tag · December 31, 2021

19 minutes ago, flyonthewall said:

I think he needs two years of sustained success to get hired away. Find an above average quarterback and that is not far fetched. You are correct....

Look at Aranda of Baylor 2 years as a head coach with one winning season. He was in the loop for the top 5 college coaching jobs. I think if Seth gets to 8 wins or better he will get some offers.

NorthTexasSportsNetwork · December 31, 2021

1 hour ago, meangreen11 said:

So I have no idea where you are pulling your numbers from but they are way off. Secondly, donor dollars are a small component of the overall athletic budget. The size of the school and the student fee percentages and the revenue that creates is why schools like UNT and Charlotte were able to enter the AAC. I also seriously doubt that a UNT site would be posting these numbers and that is probably why you aren't including a link.

I literally got it from the MGSF site, why the hell would I make up numbers lol

FIU was the only school not to report numbers

Monkeypox · December 31, 2021

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

Look at Aranda of Baylor 2 years as a head coach with one winning season. He was in the loop for the top 5 college coaching jobs. I think if Seth gets to 8 wins or better he will get some offers.

Yep, programs are so scared of "missing out", the second you win, they're jumping to hire you.

Scott Frost - one winning season (yes, I know, he went 13-0)

Justin Fuente - Two winning seasons (26-23 overall record at Memphis... his WP for VT is better than at Memphis)

Chad Morris - 14-22, one winning season (7-5)

Matt Rhule - 2 winning seasons at Temple (28-23 overall record), 2 winning seasons at Baylor (19-20 overall record)... 10-21 with Carolina so far

Seth Littrell - a hot name and interviewed at KSU at 23-17... he's 14-21 since.

My point isn't that most of these guys didn't do a good job where they were ... it's just that nobody is waiting around for SUSTAINED success. Big programs (and the NFL) can afford to money-whip someone with potential in the hopes that it's their guy, even if they end up a total catastrophe.

SL being hired away after a 9-win season in 2022 would be less surprising to me than winning 9 games in 2022.

Mike Jackson · January 1, 2022

11 hours ago, flyonthewall said:

But I am not quitting. I have faith that the leadership in this university will continue to make the correct decisions to put our kids in the best place possible to succeed. That means facilities, new conference, education.....all of it.

I respect that. And to be clear my academic donations aren’t affected by what I contribute to the athletic fund. And I stand by what I posted. The on the field performance on average since stepping back up to FBS has been embarrassing with a lot of bad decisions. I couldn’t give away my extra season tickets most games even when offered to alumni who are football fans. To each their own but when fans of upstart programs like UTSA and Charlotte can clown us that is embarrassing. Yes the mighty (we’ve been playing football since 2013) Charolette 49ers is 2-0 vs North Texas coached by Seth. Anyone trying to sell us the value of bringing Seth back is trying to sell ice to eskimos. This is going into year 7 not year 4.

Oh, and UTSA? Yes we ended their perfect season but have we ever been 9-0? (We certainly haven’t since 1995) I don’t think a single fan wouldn’t like to reverse this season scenario go 11-0 drop the 12th game to UTSA host and win in the CUSA championship game.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Mike Jackson

Side.Show.Joe · January 1, 2022

I went away for a few days on Christmas break and come back to the same problem. I really hoped Wren would have let him go by now. Another year of Seth in Denton just isn't acceptable.

Cr1028 · January 1, 2022

1 hour ago, Mike Jackson said:

Oh, and UTSA? / Yes we ended their perfect season but have we ever been 9-0? (We certainly haven’t since 1995) I don’t think a single fan wouldn’t like to reverse this season scenario go 11-0 drop the 12th game to UTSA host and with the CUSA championship game.

Fair enough, but $20 in concessions at the Alamodome next year says that we enter our game with nUTSAck with a better record than they do.

untjim1995 · January 1, 2022

5 hours ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

I went away for a few days on Christmas break and come back to the same problem. I really hoped Wren would have let him go by now. Another year of Seth in Denton just isn't acceptable.

Sadly, SL being back is acceptable to the AD, BOR, and BMDs…

SilverEagle · January 1, 2022

20 hours ago, Monkeypox said:

Yep, programs are so scared of "missing out", the second you win, they're jumping to hire you.

Scott Frost - one winning season (yes, I know, he went 13-0)

Justin Fuente - Two winning seasons (26-23 overall record at Memphis... his WP for VT is better than at Memphis)

Chad Morris - 14-22, one winning season (7-5)

Matt Rhule - 2 winning seasons at Temple (28-23 overall record), 2 winning seasons at Baylor (19-20 overall record)... 10-21 with Carolina so far

Seth Littrell - a hot name and interviewed at KSU at 23-17... he's 14-21 since.

My point isn't that most of these guys didn't do a good job where they were ... it's just that nobody is waiting around for SUSTAINED success. Big programs (and the NFL) can afford to money-whip someone with potential in the hopes that it's their guy, even if they end up a total catastrophe.

SL being hired away after a 9-win season in 2022 would be less surprising to me than winning 9 games in 2022.

It's not just the season numbers that get you hired away, but (IMHO) the # of meaningful games that a coach wins or loses. SL (or maybe it was PB) won two (for the most part) meaningful games in the five-game run. But true to his Head Coaching pattern, he blew the bowl game.

IMHO, SL could go undefeated this year, and when he blows the conference championship and/or bowl game, no one is going to hire him away from us.