DRC Sunday column: Guiding UNT to bowl shows why Seth Littrell is great fit with Mean Green

[Cr1028]

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I think there is an assumption that there would be a mass exodus of our best players if Littrell were to leave, causing us to have to “rebuild”?  I just don’t think that would be the case.  

So you are saying that we already have the players to be successful? A team that could take down an undefeated top 25 team while on a 5 game winning streak? Meaning Seth Littrell is a good recruiter and evaluator of talent? And you just need a better Xs and Os guy? Like say a coordinator?

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 minute ago, Cr1028 said:

Pretty terrible when and compared to whom? UCF has been a good to great team for awhile. What were these lofty expectations? Go 13-0 and claim a mythical national title? UTSA was a North Texas away from doing the same thing with their “increased expectations” while playing in a borrowed 30 year old NFL stadium nobody wanted. If we somehow win 10+ games next season are you going to then talk about how we increased expectations?

You don’t remember UCF being a mainstay in ESPNs Bottom 10 up until maybe 2014 or so?  I think they also have a 0-12 season under their belts in the past 15 years.  Then, they built up different expectations, and achieved them!

I don’t know what UTSAs expectations are, but I’m fairly certain their long-term goals are way higher than ours (we often tease them for this because they don’t know any better), even before this past season.

Look, Littrell himself set these higher expectations during his first 3 seasons here.   He has failed his own expectations over the past 3 years.  So, no, as doubtful as I am that NT is going to win 10 games next season, if we somehow happen to do that, it would be a combination of things that fell into place to get Littrell back to his original expectations.  It would be great, and we could hopefully call 2019-2021 the anomaly.  

I suppose we’ll see.

[MeanGreenTexan]

9 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

So you are saying that we already have the players to be successful? A team that could take down an undefeated top 25 team while on a 5 game winning streak? Meaning Seth Littrell is a good recruiter and evaluator of talent? And you just need a better Xs and Os guy? Like say a coordinator?

I absolutely think we have the players in place to be CUSA Champs!

I love Luke Walerius.  We saw recruiting go from mid-low CUSA rankings to top 3 as soon as he got here.  Fantastic hire by Littrell.

And technically, we already have an OC.  Are you saying he should maybe get a new one?  I dunno if Bloesch would be OK with that.  But if Littrell could identify someone who can coach up a QB, that would be ideal, yes.

[Cr1028]

15 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You don’t remember UCF being a mainstay in ESPNs Bottom 10 up until maybe 2014 or so?  I think they also have a 0-12 season under their belts in the past 15 years.  Then, they built up different expectations, and achieved them!

In 2013 UCF went 12-1 and beat Baylor in the Fiesta Bowl. Their coach was George O’Leary who had been there since 2004. He resigned in 2015 after starting 0-8 in his 12th season at age 69.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Cr1028

[Wag Tag]

Seth wins next year or has a loosing season he will be gone. He will be hired away or fired and UNT saved $2m in the process. 

[Cr1028]

3 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I absolutely think we have the players in place to be CUSA Champs!

I love Luke Walerius.  We saw recruiting go from mid-low CUSA rankings to top 3 as soon as he got here.  Fantastic hire by Littrell.

And technically, we already have an OC.  Are you saying he should maybe get a new one?  I dunno if Bloesch would be OK with that.  But if Littrell could identify someone who can coach up a QB, that would be ideal, yes.

Ok good, then we agree. I think Bloesch was in way over his head as OC and to my eyes it seemed Littrell took the playsheet back from him. I’m fine risking the loss of Bloesch for a top notch OC/QB coach. The hiring of Bennett shows we are willing to make a splash with coordinator hires. I hope we do that with this qb coach (hopefully OC) hire.

[MeanGreenTexan]

4 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

In 2013 UCF went 13-1 and beat Baylor in the Fiesta Bowl. Their coach was George O’Leary who had been there since 2004. He resigned in 2015 after starting 0-8 in his 12th season at age 69.

See, now you’re making me have to Google stuff.  That 2015 season was the winless one.

Prior to that, yes, OLeary built up some great expectations!  Then, after OLeary left (I’m sure there were some fans that were afraid of what would be coming, and how it would stack up to OLeary’s previous CUSA contending expectations), Frost came on board & took them even higher!  
 

I think the same thing can happen here.  Seth’s 9-win, CUSA-contending, expectations can be even higher!

[untjim1995]

Some of y'all are gonna explode when SL gets an extension here...

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

Just now, untjim1995 said:

Some of y'all are gonna explode when SL gets an extension here...

 

That simply cannot happen unless he gets back to his previous 9-win expectations next season.   Even then, it’s gotta be like 2-3 years only (but I doubt Sexton goes for that).

[Cr1028]

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

See, now you’re making me have to Google stuff.  That 2015 season was the winless one.

Prior to that, yes, OLeary built up some great expectations!  Then, after OLeary left (I’m sure there were some fans that were afraid of what would be coming, and how it would stack up to OLeary’s previous CUSA contending expectations), Frost came on board & took them even higher!  
 

I think the same thing can happen here.  Seth’s 9-win, CUSA-contending, expectations can be even higher!

Haha well George was 25 years older than Littrell and left of his own accord. And while I agree, we could be better, the odds are that we would be worse, potentially much worse, as you and I have seen over these last decades.

[Cr1028]

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

That simply cannot happen unless he gets back to his previous 9-win expectations next season.   Even then, it’s gotta be like 2-3 years only (but I doubt Sexton goes for that).

Agree again.

[MeanGreenTexan]

12 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Ok good, then we agree. I think Bloesch was in way over his head as OC and to my eyes it seemed Littrell took the playsheet back from him. I’m fine risking the loss of Bloesch for a top notch OC/QB coach. The hiring of Bennett shows we are willing to make a splash with coordinator hires. I hope we do that with this qb coach (hopefully OC) hire.

Bloesch was able to rebuild Langstons mess quickly.  He proved to be a nice hire himself.  Not sure what all went into giving him the OC job, but if he got stripped of that, I dunno if he’d stick around, so yeah, we’d have to replace him too.  I’d hate to lose him.  That’s a lot of turnover on that side of the ball, so we may have to reinvent ourselves offensively again.   But it could be even better, especially if Littrell hit on both hires (OC & OL).

[untjim1995]

Just now, MeanGreenTexan said:

That simply cannot happen unless he gets back to his previous 9-win expectations next season.   Even then, it’s gotta be like 2-3 years only (but I doubt Sexton goes for that).

I think its very possible he gets an extension by:

Beating Miami (OH) in this upcoming bowl game

or

Winning 7+ games next year, which will be very, very possible. FCS Spare, SMU, @Memphis, and @UNLV for OOC should be 2 wins at a minimum. Then CUSA West will see UTSA lose a ton of talent, LT break in a new coach, UTEP and Rice improving but still below us, USM, and UAB, then @Marshall and home against FIU who will be breaking in a new coach.

Its hard not to see at least 7 wins IF we have decent QB play and have Phil Bennett's defense back here and running. This schedule is very soft in 2022, as compared to what we have played.

[MeanGreenTexan]

6 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Haha well George was 25 years older than Littrell and left of his own accord. And while I agree, we could be better, the odds are that we would be worse, potentially much worse, as you and I have seen over these last decades.

Oh, I agree it would be a risk for sure.  But again, for me, it comes down to the night/day difference between Smatresk & Baker VS Battaille/Villarreal.  I think those dark days are behind us.   I have faith!

Just yelling at clouds, as I know Littrell is back next year.  I’m absolutely rooting for him to succeed, because it means success for the Mean Green.

[Wag Tag]

12 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

That simply cannot happen unless he gets back to his previous 9-win expectations next season.   Even then, it’s gotta be like 2-3 years only (but I doubt Sexton goes for that).

If you look at the AAC head coaching salaries that are staying, Seth’s current comp is in line. If he goes to lower P5 like a Kansas he makes $1m more. If he wins and stays a small bump in pay with incentives would work. Salary pool is the big deal for today’s coaches.

[MeanGreenTexan]

9 minutes ago, texx2818 said:

I follow UNT because I enjoy the games and it’s a fun small community of fans. I have given up on us ever becoming “the next UCF”. 

My Vito prediction was like 1-11, so I guess this season was a success. I don’t get my blood pressure up over UNT games anymore.

Guess I’m #OldDenton.

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

If you look at the AAC head coaching salaries that are staying, Seth’s current comp is in line. If he goes to lower P5 like a Kansas he makes $1m more. If he wins and stays a small bump in pay with incentives would work. Salary pool is the big deal for today’s coaches.

Right.   I’m just saying, with Littrell’s agent, an extension starts at 5 years & only goes UP from there.

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Right.   I’m just saying, with Littrell’s agent, an extension starts at 5 years & only goes UP from there.

I f’ing hate Jimmy Sexton. He is the absolute worst part about Seth being here.

[UNT Mean Green]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Bloesch was able to rebuild Langstons mess quickly.  He proved to be a nice hire himself.  Not sure what all went into giving him the OC job, but if he got stripped of that, I dunno if he’d stick around, so yeah, we’d have to replace him too.  I’d hate to lose him.  That’s a lot of turnover on that side of the ball, so we may have to reinvent ourselves offensively again.   But it could be even better, especially if Littrell hit on both hires (OC & OL).

Bloesch has been an awesome offensive line coach, and extremely beneficial for our run game and pass protection. What went into the additional OC job title were MAJOR P5 programs wanting to hire him away for 2X - 3X his pay at UNT. So UNT adds a title of OC to him, and raises his pay for retention. Hopefully we are able to retain him for another year, and continue to develop a group of young and talented offensive linemen. 

[KingDL1]

On 12/19/2021 at 8:16 PM, Side.Show.Joe said:

I'll just say Littrell isn't good enough to successfully lead UNT into the American

This is a fact! 

Littrell should not be let anywhere near UNT next year. 

[greenminer]

13 hours ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

What you have presented is not a good analogy to our situation. Littrell is not a cog in the machine, like your employees. The head coach is the motor that drives them. When he fails it all fails. When he succeeds it all works... like McCasland.

Cog or motor, you don't change something that appears to be working very well.

If we blow out Miami, there is reason to believe we can win 7-8 games next year.  Even more if we figure out QB play.
If it is close, or we get blown out, red flags are up again and the leash in 2022 is very short.  I would be okay in this scenario if Baker fires him after this kind of bowl loss.

I wanted him fired when we were 1-6.  At that point, I would have agreed he should have been fired.  But here we are.  The winning streak just saved his job, and gives me hope for 2022.

Edited December 22, 2021 by greenminer

[TIgreen01]

9 hours ago, greenminer said:

Cog or motor, you don't change something that appears to be working very well.

If we blow out Miami, there is reason to believe we can win 7-8 games next year.  Even more if we figure out QB play.
If it is close, or we get blown out, red flags are up again and the leash in 2022 is very short.  I would be okay in this scenario if Baker fires him after this kind of bowl loss.

I wanted him fired when we were 1-6.  At that point, I would have agreed he should have been fired.  But here we are.  The winning streak just saved his job, and gives me hope for 2022.

This is where I’m at.  However, people are acting like the season is over and that the bowl game doesn’t matter.  We signed less than half a class at early signing day.  That still leaves Wren and a new coach time to adjust and bring in players that they would want.

I’m not saying that we signed half a class so we could keep SL on a short leash, but it absolutely still means we have options.  The team needs to finish the season out strong with a big win against Miami.  It helps SL close on the rest of this 22’ class, or it paves the way for change.

[GMG24]

22 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

You can rebuild a basketball team in a season because you can get away with having a few great players. Football is not easy to turn around in a short period of time because you need depth. McCasland and Littrell are faced with very different sports and circumstances. Johnny Jones has shown you can win at North Texas and McCasland took it to a step above what Jones did. Littrell is the first one to put a .500 or above record together here in football in 40 years.

I would agree we have more depth now than we've ever had and he built that depth by year 4.  Agreed it takes longer, but if they would have hit the transfer portal earlier they could have built that depth authentically (See team from Dallas) then you win and begin recruiting better HS talent and use the portal less.  

[KingDL1]

9 hours ago, greenminer said:

Cog or motor, you don't change something that appears to be working very well.

If we blow out Miami, there is reason to believe we can win 7-8 games next year.  Even more if we figure out QB play.
If it is close, or we get blown out, red flags are up again and the leash in 2022 is very short.  I would be okay in this scenario if Baker fires him after this kind of bowl loss.

I wanted him fired when we were 1-6.  At that point, I would have agreed he should have been fired.  But here we are.  The winning streak just saved his job, and gives me hope for 2022.

Seth beat 1 bad FCS Team finished ranked : 216

Seth Four really bad FBS teams 

Rice in OT : 148

Southern Miss : 156

UTEP : 123

Fla. International : 194

One Over Rated Division Mate

UTSA : 53

 

So the average ranking of the teams we managed to beat this season was 148, What ranked 148,  Yes 148

Seth Sucks, a 6th year coach. He needs to get back to his golf game. 

Seth deserves nothing

https://sagarin.usatoday.com/2021-2/college-football-team-ratings-2021/

 

[Side.Show.Joe]

18 hours ago, greenminer said:

Cog or motor, you don't change something that appears to be working very well.

If we blow out Miami, there is reason to believe we can win 7-8 games next year.  Even more if we figure out QB play.
If it is close, or we get blown out, red flags are up again and the leash in 2022 is very short.  I would be okay in this scenario if Baker fires him after this kind of bowl loss.

I wanted him fired when we were 1-6.  At that point, I would have agreed he should have been fired.  But here we are.  The winning streak just saved his job, and gives me hope for 2022.

6-6 and .500 after 6 seasons is not my standard for "very well".

We should blow out Miami OH. They are also a 6-6 teams with only one win over a winning team... and our Frisco Bowl is basically a home game for us.

And a 7-8 win team in C-USA next season, still wouldn't be good enough to finish better than middle of the pack in the American.

The winning streak just fooled some people around here into believing things have changed. The data proves Littrell hasn't been a successful coach in C-USA, which means there is almost no chance Seth can be a winner in the American. So there is no good reason to keep him.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Side.Show.Joe