DRC Sunday column: Guiding UNT to bowl shows why Seth Littrell is great fit with Mean Green

[NT80]

12 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I think the bowl will reveal a lot more about our team and where SL is headed.

We are playing a 6-6 MAC team.  A loss or last minute close win would be awful. 

This needs to be a 20+ point win to show some real upward separation from the .500 level.  

[greenminer]

I posted this the first week of December.  Will do it again because it appears we have people determined to not consider learned excellence:
 

Quote

I don't think anyone is ignoring SL's past.  I think we are optimistic that he has figured something out, and want to see the immediate future unfold.  No contract extensions.  No new bonuses.  Just let another contracted year play out.

Are you just not interested in an improved SL? Why does the idea of a learned excellence seemingly not concern you?

I'm not interested in teaching someone his job, you say.
...well, neither are we.  We're both interested in winning, which is what he is doing now.

If I managed a hired person for a year that was about to get fired, and witnessed him turn the corner and start excelling, I'm going to hold off on the decision.  Start building up his responsibilities and see what happens.

No one is suggesting that a T25 win = SL has an awesome team in 2021! We are only acknowledging evidence that SL actually learned something and 2022 could be what we expect: a team that contends for a title.

[Glory to the Green]

3 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I posted this the first week of December.  Will do it again because it appears we have people determined to not consider learned excellence:
 

No one is suggesting that a T25 win = SL has an awesome team in 2021! We are only acknowledging evidence that SL actually learned something and 2022 could be what we expect: a team that contends for a title.

He adapted to the strengths of the team. That’s what good coaches do.   With the way the season turned around, SL may be the guy. 
The D has turned the corner. The next QB coach needs to be good one.  The talent is here for a strong 22 season.  The Mean Green are trending up, but it needs to be enough for next year and leading into the AAC.   
Bowl game is big.  Make a statement in Frisco, pick up some transfers/JUCO’s in  February, and this team I will be fun to watch in the Fall. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I posted this the first week of December.  Will do it again because it appears we have people determined to not consider learned excellence:
 

No one is suggesting that a T25 win = SL has an awesome team in 2021! We are only acknowledging evidence that SL actually learned something and 2022 could be what we expect: a team that contends for a title.

Look at the competition at the end of the season.  The best win (if we’re being honest) was the UTEP game.  It was quite obvious UTSA couldn’t play in elements & quit trying at the half.  I was there for 3+quarters of it.  And for those of you who were there, you saw it too.

Is this what y’all are basing your hope for next year on??

What if the FIU game & Marshall games were flip-flopped & we still ended up 6-6, but with our rear ends handed to us the 2nd-to-last game of the year?  The upper-echelon CUSA schools whipped us hard with the exception of a lost UTSA.  And we still wound up with yet another ugly loss to what turned out to be an awful LATech.

Brett’s article headline banshee-screams “Old Denton”.   “Seth Littrell, the 6-6 coach, is perfect for little ‘ol UNT!!  Why expect more?”

[greenminer]

7 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Look at the competition at the end of the season.  The best win (if we’re being honest) was the UTEP game.  It was quite obvious UTSA couldn’t play in elements & quit trying at the half.  I was there for 3+quarters of it.  And for those of you who were there, you saw it too.

Is this what y’all are basing your hope for next year on??

What if the FIU game & Marshall games were flip-flopped & we still ended up 6-6, but with our rear ends handed to us the 2nd-to-last game of the year?  The upper-echelon CUSA schools whipped us hard with the exception of a lost UTSA.  And we still wound up with yet another ugly loss to what turned out to be an awful LATech.

Brett’s article headline banshee-screams “Old Denton”.   “Seth Littrell, the 6-6 coach, is perfect for little ‘ol UNT!!  Why expect more?”

I did not like the title of that VIto article!

I thought it was pretty obvious our offense was different the last half of the year so, yes, there is reason to hang onto SL for 2022 and see what it can do against better teams.  IMO, it's just dumb to get rid of him now and NOT see what it does against better teams.

SL will be here in 2022 so, either way, every one is going to find out.

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 minute ago, greenminer said:

I did not like the title of that VIto article!

I thought it was pretty obvious our offense was different the last half of the year so, yes, there is reason to hang onto SL for 2022 and see what it can do against better teams.  IMO, it's just dumb to get rid of him now and NOT see what it does against better teams.

SL will be here in 2022 so, either way, every one is going to find out.

I believe you’re right, and unless he finds a good playcaller/QB coach & a QB that can do at least 80% of what Fine did (and based on the past 2 seasons, that looks about as probable as a 1-roll Yahtzee) we’re gonna be wondering what happened after we get pounded by SMU again to open the season because our run game is getting stuffed by an actual good defense (unlike Rice, SoMiss, UTEP, & FIU) that wants to win that day (unlike UTSA).   “Huh?  This isn’t the same team we saw beating up on everyone at the end of last year?!  What happened?”

Man, I hope I’m wrong.

[NT80]

18 minutes ago, greenminer said:

SL will be here in 2022 so, either way, every one is going to find out.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

[greenminer]

6 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I believe you’re right, and unless he finds a good playcaller/QB coach & a QB that can do at least 80% of what Fine did (and based on the past 2 seasons, that looks about as probable as a 1-roll Yahtzee) we’re gonna be wondering what happened after we get pounded by SMU again to open the season because our run game is getting stuffed by an actual good defense (unlike Rice, SoMiss, UTEP, & FIU) that wants to win that day (unlike UTSA).   “Huh?  This isn’t the same team we saw beating up on everyone at the end of last year?!  What happened?”

Man, I hope I’m wrong.

With our new found identity as a run team, 2022 QB play needs to only be 57% of Fine.

It's science.

[97and03]

6 hours ago, greenminer said:

One of things I'm looking for next year: assuming these injuries heal up and we get the WRs back (plus Addaway), does SL stay on course and keep this spread-to-run offense, or does he come out trying to return to original offense?

I have a preference (run), but ultimately just want us to go with what works.

I guess it depends on if he has a QB who can hit open receivers. 

[97and03]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I believe you’re right, and unless he finds a good playcaller/QB coach & a QB that can do at least 80% of what Fine did (and based on the past 2 seasons, that looks about as probable as a 1-roll Yahtzee) we’re gonna be wondering what happened after we get pounded by SMU again to open the season because our run game is getting stuffed by an actual good defense (unlike Rice, SoMiss, UTEP, & FIU) that wants to win that day (unlike UTSA).   “Huh?  This isn’t the same team we saw beating up on everyone at the end of last year?!  What happened?”

Man, I hope I’m wrong.

Not sure why you and others want to downplay the wins. I get that FIU and SoMiss were terrible teams but the Rice win was solid and UTEP and UTSA were good wins. Both had solid defenses as well. Said this before but we can’t demand to beat winning teams and then poo-poo those wins with qualifiers. It’s almost like you wish we had lost so Seth would be gone. 
 

[meangreenbob]

NO IT DOESN’T!!

 

[UNT 90 Grad]

4 hours ago, NT80 said:

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

if you think Seth did the same thing over and over again this season and didn’t change game plans, you weren’t paying attention.  The point so many are making is that Seth seemed to learn something and this program may benefit from Seth’s growth as a coach.    The premise is that he is not the same coach that started the season.  He’s gotten better and showed potential to keep getting better.  

[northtexassigep]

6 hours ago, NT80 said:

We are playing a 6-6 MAC team.  A loss or last minute close win would be awful. 

This needs to be a 20+ point win to show some real upward separation from the .500 level.  

We are 3 point dogs. Any win will be great for the program and a last minute one would prob be better in terms of entertainment to an outsider. 

[meangreenbob]

1 hour ago, UNT 90 Grad said:

if you think Seth did the same thing over and over again this season and didn’t change game plans, you weren’t paying attention.  The point so many are making is that Seth seemed to learn something and this program may benefit from Seth’s growth as a coach.    The premise is that he is not the same coach that started the season.  He’s gotten better and showed potential to keep getting better.  

Phil Bennett. Enough said. 

[Wag Tag]

8 hours ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

Wow. 6-6 and it's his finest year. That alone should tell you he isn't the right coach. He loses to good teams and beats bad teams, most of the time. Sure we have the UTSA win, but that is the only quality win Littrell has picked up in several years.

If was a mix of 6-6 you might have a point, but the fashion it was done in with a 5 game win streak and beating a top 20 team is awesome. Win the bowl game!

[MeanGreenTexan]

6 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Not sure why you and others want to downplay the wins. I get that FIU and SoMiss were terrible teams but the Rice win was solid and UTEP and UTSA were good wins. Both had solid defenses as well. Said this before but we can’t demand to beat winning teams and then poo-poo those wins with qualifiers. It’s almost like you wish we had lost so Seth would be gone. 
 

Rice was terrible.  I don’t know how they beat UAB.  

I agree UTEP was a great win.  I was there for that one as well.  The team dug deep & found a way to win.

The UTSA game was a hiccup for them, obviously.  I am glad we won!  I never root against NT!   You’ll never guess who was there in the lower section of 205, drenched in cold rain (not huddled up under the club level awning), high-fiving me with every great play the defense made or TD we scored.   Hint: he’s also in this thread hoping for even more.

No one wants to talk about UAB & Marshall though… why?

[Wag Tag]

Momentum!   One word why Seth stays. We will end the season on a high note and be stacked for next year!  It is pathetic to diminish wins, you guys sure don't do it on loses!

Edited December 20, 2021 by Wag Tag

[MGNation92]

26 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Rice was terrible.  I don’t know how they beat UAB.  

I agree UTEP was a great win.  I was there for that one as well.  The team dug deep & found a way to win.

The UTSA game was a hiccup for them, obviously.  I am glad we won!  I never root against NT!   You’ll never guess who was there in the lower section of 205, drenched in cold rain (not huddled up under the club level awning), high-fiving me with every great play the defense made or TD we scored.   Hint: he’s also in this thread hoping for even more.

No one wants to talk about UAB & Marshall though… why?

Because we won 5 games in a row duh. 

I'll one up you and ask, why did we even need to win 5 games in a row to reach bowl eligibility in the first place? We could've won against SMU, Liberty, and LaTech. Instead Seth lost, like he usually does. 

Everybody wants to talk about his shift to a run based offense, but nobody wants to talk about his abysmal QB Coach/OC hires of the last 3 years that basically forced his hand. 

Everybody wants to talk about young players stepping up and making plays, but nobody wants to talk about the string of injuries that forced his hand yet again because he's retained the same S&C staff since the start and we continually have injuries at key positions any given year.

Everybody wants to talk about Phil Bennett, but nobody wants to talk about his questionable assistant hires and their lack or experience/qualifications.

Everybody wants to talk about the possibility of a bowl win (AFTER SIX YEARS), but nobody wants to talk about his woeful bowl/championship record.

None of that matters, because we won 5 games

Edited December 20, 2021 by MGNation92

[Side.Show.Joe]

10 hours ago, greenminer said:

I think the bowl will reveal a lot more about our team and where SL is headed.

I disagree. The bowl won't really tell us anything. Miami OH is almost just like us... a 6-6- team with only one win over a team with a winning record. The only difference is that the good team they beat wasn't as good as UTSA, and the bowl is basically a home game for us.

It's a perfect situation for Littrell to FINALLY win a bowl. A good 6th year G5 coach making $2 million a year doesn't need the stars to align just to have a shot at winning a bowl game.... and we're still a 3 point dog. There is no bowl outcome that would merit another season under Littrell.

[Side.Show.Joe]

10 hours ago, greenminer said:

You only want to look at overall record. That's all I need to know. Thanks for your time.

No. I look at the total body of work over his 6 seasons at UNT, and the quality of those wins and losses. You just want to focus on the last 6 games and avoid the bulk of his disappointment. That's just not logical.

[Side.Show.Joe]

48 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Rice was terrible.  I don’t know how they beat UAB.  

I agree UTEP was a great win.  I was there for that one as well.  The team dug deep & found a way to win.

The UTSA game was a hiccup for them, obviously.  I am glad we won!  I never root against NT!   You’ll never guess who was there in the lower section of 205, drenched in cold rain (not huddled up under the club level awning), high-fiving me with every great play the defense made or TD we scored.   Hint: he’s also in this thread hoping for even more.

No one wants to talk about UAB & Marshall though… why?

None of the Old Denton crowd want to talk about the first half of the season when we were facing real competition. They don't believe Littrell should be judged based on what he did against good teams.

[Side.Show.Joe]

37 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

Momentum!   One word why Seth stays. We will end the season on a high note and be stacked for next year!  It is pathetic to diminish wins, you guys sure don't do it on loses!

It's pathetic to justify mediocrity. If Littrell is back next season, it will be a very divided fan base and board.

[Aquila_Viridis]

'Perfect fit'! That is LAUGHABLE. Really I'm concerned to know who paid for that. I never want to see another half a season like we suffered this year.

[Side.Show.Joe]

I wonder if Wren is pissed at Brett for printing this 4 days before our bowl game?

[RBP79]

Man...this returning topic is a beat down.

REALITY...Seth will be here next year. IMO Wren has already made that decision....look at the AAC announcement.

For those who want a new HFC may I suggest loosening those purse strings and donate wads of cash to the Atheltic Department to ensure You have Wren's ear.