Seth Littrell

[Udomann]

17 hours ago, TreeFiddy said:

 Littrell, Harrell, Bennett.  Geez, that is the making of a P5 level staff.

As much as I'm waiting for SL to get shown the door, I have to admit I'd be very very interested (and lightly aroused?) to see that scenario play out.. 

Our current run game, Harrell's air game/QB development. The great wall of Bennett...

[MGNation92]

1 hour ago, Udomann said:

As much as I'm waiting for SL to get shown the door, I have to admit I'd be very very interested (and lightly aroused?) to see that scenario play out.. 

Our current run game, Harrell's air game/QB development. The great wall of Bennett...

You know at the very least our QB room would improve immediately

[Udomann]

25 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

You know at the very least our QB room would improve immediately

Everytime someone's aunt walks into the QB room it's immediately improved. That's a pretty low bar...

[UNTLifer]

First: 

I trust Wren Baker to make the right decision for our program/department.  He hasn't done anything to make me doubt his ability.  The SL speculation is purely from the fans/alumni.  People are wanting Baker to make some public statement, but I don't think that is the way he operates.  Is it the right way to handle this?  Yes and no.  The people that support the program want to know.  Maybe he should come out and give his impressions of the program, the direction it is headed and what he foresees in the future.  I think that would be the right thing to do to either put the SL being fired comments to rest, or to outline his expectations of where the program should be moving forward thus providing some benchmarks that SL needs to achieve.

Second:

The QB room is a tough one.  I look at our offer lists that are made public and am surprised not to see more names on the list.  We show five offers for the '22 class and they have all committed elsewhere.  There are currently three offers out in the '23 class, one only has an offer from us and the other two have big P5 offers.  I wouldn't be surprised to see us work the transfer portal or go the JUCO route in this class.  

I would be surprised if Aune returns.  Ruder was a 4 star transfer that didn't look ready.  Is that based upon his ability or only being in town for fall practices?  I am going with the later as too many people observed his ability thus warranting his rating as a 4 star prospect. 

For whatever reason, Martin isn't going to see the field.  He is now married and is another one I would be surprised to see back next year.  I would guess he will graduate soon and be ready to move on with his life.

In discussions with a well connected booster, it was communicated to me that SL was pretty pissed at Mark Stoops over the Gilmore transfer.  I don't know what Stoops stated about Gilmore's ability, but SL doesn't think he has the ability to ever start here.  I place some of this blame on SL.  He should have done his homework instead of relying on Stoops.

Drummond.  Could be really good, but he comes from an extremely small program in OK.  I wouldn't expect him to be ready until his Jr. or Sr. year.  I think too many people are expecting the second coming of Fine and that isn't fair to Drummond as their only similarities are their high school coach and being from a small OK school.  He could develop into something great, but he needs a really good QB coach to develop his talent.  I'm not sure Coach Joseph is that person.

SL's record after the two 9 win seasons is not very good, and his record in big games is terrible, as we all are aware.  I have supported him up until earlier this year as I tried to be realistic in what he took over when he arrived.  I am now on the fence because it is obvious the players haven't lost faith in him or his staff.  Yes, outside of utsa, our winning streak has come against poor teams, but the improvement has also been noticeable.  I foresee him being here next year and I hope the improvement continues.  Anything less than an 8 or 9 win regular season should lead to a change.

[Jonnyeagle]

8 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

First: 

I trust Wren Baker to make the right decision for our program/department.  He hasn't done anything to make me doubt his ability.  The SL speculation is purely from the fans/alumni.  People are wanting Baker to make some public statement, but I don't think that is the way he operates.  Is it the right way to handle this?  Yes and no.  The people that support the program want to know.  Maybe he should come out and give his impressions of the program, the direction it is headed and what he foresees in the future.  I think that would be the right thing to do to either put the SL being fired comments to rest, or to outline his expectations of where the program should be moving forward thus providing some benchmarks that SL needs to achieve.

Second:

The QB room is a tough one.  I look at our offer lists that are made public and am surprised not to see more names on the list.  We show five offers for the '22 class and they have all committed elsewhere.  There are currently three offers out in the '23 class, one only has an offer from us and the other two have big P5 offers.  I wouldn't be surprised to see us work the transfer portal or go the JUCO route in this class.  

I would be surprised if Aune returns.  Ruder was a 4 star transfer that didn't look ready.  Is that based upon his ability or only being in town for fall practices?  I am going with the later as too many people observed his ability thus warranting his rating as a 4 star prospect. 

For whatever reason, Martin isn't going to see the field.  He is now married and is another one I would be surprised to see back next year.  I would guess he will graduate soon and be ready to move on with his life.

In discussions with a well connected booster, it was communicated to me that SL was pretty pissed at Mark Stoops over the Gilmore transfer.  I don't know what Stoops stated about Gilmore's ability, but SL doesn't think he has the ability to ever start here.  I place some of this blame on SL.  He should have done his homework instead of relying on Stoops.

Drummond.  Could be really good, but he comes from an extremely small program in OK.  I wouldn't expect him to be ready until his Jr. or Sr. year.  I think too many people are expecting the second coming of Fine and that isn't fair to Drummond as their only similarities are their high school coach and being from a small OK school.  He could develop into something great, but he needs a really good QB coach to develop his talent.  I'm not sure Coach Joseph is that person.

SL's record after the two 9 win seasons is not very good, and his record in big games is terrible, as we all are aware.  I have supported him up until earlier this year as I tried to be realistic in what he took over when he arrived.  I am now on the fence because it is obvious the players haven't lost faith in him or his staff.  Yes, outside of utsa, our winning streak has come against poor teams, but the improvement has also been noticeable.  I foresee him being here next year and I hope the improvement continues.  Anything less than an 8 or 9 win regular season should lead to a change.

Where have you been the last couple of days.  Feel like you let us down a bit mit being here and having your voice heard.

[UNTLifer]

11 minutes ago, Jonnyeagle said:

Where have you been the last couple of days.  Feel like you let us down a bit mit being here and having your voice heard.

Haha.  I was travelling for the holidays and watched the game in a room full of relatives.  Decided to just to watch the game and not follow online as well.

[Cerebus]

On 11/27/2021 at 6:59 PM, Talon90 said:

Can't believe it's been 20 years!

That bus ride back from Monroe was GRIM. 

[Mike Jackson]

On 11/28/2021 at 7:32 AM, SilverEagle said:

So, that leaves the development of the QB's and WR's. Who is in charge of that (I mean really in charge)? And who was it that put them in charge of that? Hmmm. 

So does this situation require tweaking? Or firings and wholesale replacements?

This deserved 0 eye rolls or down votes.  The people for bringing Seth back have zero to stand on in my opinion except “it could be worse”.  

 

On 11/28/2021 at 7:18 AM, MeanGreenTexan said:

Lots to unpack here, and for the sake of letting this big win percolate, I’ll just say it’s been assured money is not a holdup.  Things have changed around here in what we should expect from our coaches over the past 6 years.  We simply cannot throw out the past 2.5 years results, zero-in on the last .5 & say with any kind of certainty that he’s turned the corner & will get us to where the new expectations should have us.  When looking at his entire body of work, I’m skeptical he can.

Past performance is the best way to future performance.  And the game is all about “what have done for me lately”.   Most of that lately has been bad ESPECIALLY the passing game.  The passing game hasn’t played winning level efficiency for 3 years including this year. (That includes the UTSA victory just look at the passing stars).  They have probably the most mature and practiced QB depth chart in CUSA and top 30 in FBS I guesstimate.   If the passing game isn’t light years better next year the running game and defense won’t be able to eek out a 7-5 record next year.  Unless you bring in QB with Spencer Rattler potential it just wishful thinking that the passing game will be good next year or even great.  And make no mistake we need to be GREAT to really change the profile of this program and get Apogee with at least 27k attendance most games.  That is why letting Seth go to pursuit greatness makes sense.
 

 

[Wag Tag]

1 hour ago, Mike Jackson said:

This deserved 0 eye rolls or down votes.  The people for bringing Seth back have zero to stand on in my opinion except “it could be worse”.  

 

Past performance is the best way to future performance.  And the game is all about “what have done for me lately”.   Most of that lately has been bad ESPECIALLY the passing game.  The passing game hasn’t played winning level efficiency for 3 years including this year. (That includes the UTSA victory just look at the passing stars).  They have probably the most mature and practiced QB depth chart in CUSA and top 30 in FBS I guesstimate.   If the passing game isn’t light years better next year the running game and defense won’t be able to eek out a 7-5 record next year.  Unless you bring in QB with Spencer Rattler potential it just wishful thinking that the passing game will be good next year or even great.  And make no mistake we need to be GREAT to really change the profile of this program and get Apogee with at least 27k attendance most games.  That is why letting Seth go to pursuit greatness makes sense.
 

 

Wrong. Michigan had 180yds passing  OSU was about double. Solid D and a run game will work. UTSA ranked 2nd in rushing within conference and top 10 in run defense in the nation. We need an average qb and Derek Thompson type in his senior year would awesome. Harbaugh may be the new model!

[UNTLifer]

I going way out on a limb here, but I think Ruder may surprise some folks after spending a year in the system.  Just a hunch.

[Mike Jackson]

23 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

Wrong. Michigan had 180yds passing  OSU was about double. Solid D and a run game will work. UTSA ranked 2nd in rushing within conference and top 10 in run defense in the nation. We need an average qb and Derek Thompson type in his senior year would awesome. Harbaugh may be the new model!

Are you saying this team doesn't need balance?  Then you are wrong in telling me I am wrong. 😜 Are hypothesizing about our team's future based purely on the performance of a team built totally different than ours is offensively?  Coach Mac was all about the running game and defense from day one.  The that short burst of success came in year 3 of his tenure when his system was fully implemented.  When Seth came here some wondered if he would invest in having good tight ends on the roster at all.  I bet if you ask some tight ends that were here when Seth arrived they are were justifiably worried about their playing time based on where Seth was coming from. Do you realize that OSU was forced to play a nickel defense due to injuries during that game?  

You win games consistently by being balanced on offense and making your opponent one dimensional with good Defense

What happened to "Let if Fly".   You can abruptly change the whole philosophy of the program based on this game or even this winning streak.  But to be better than 7-5 next year they are going to have to be balanced on offense.  And I am sorry 180 yards isn't going to cut in most Saturdays.  Good Teams in your conference will not let you be successful being one dimensional consistently.   Harbaugh has spent years building that team to do exactly what it did to OSU this past Saturday.   And while yardage was low Michigan very efficient throwing the ball the few times they threw it completing 70% of their passes.   Let look at the efficiency passing stats for the last 3 years

2019 Completions 62.3% Completion (Mason's Last Year)

2020 Completion 55.1%

2021 Completion 52.2% 

So we are trending down in just raw passing efficiency.  So if the Harbaugh is the model; let's compare

2019 Completion 55.6% 

2020 Completion 57.7%

2021 Completion 64% 

So if "Harbaugh Ball" is the model you want (or that will win here) it doesn't make sense to be really passionate about holding on to a coach that came here as a "Spread the ball around" offensive coach that is trending down in passing efficiency as much as Michigan is trending up in passing efficiency.  🤷🏽‍♂️

@Side.Show.Joe can you help me out here? 😒  I have a headache 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Mike Jackson

[PlummMeanGreen]

Trying to remember all those polls last Summer on how many the majority said SL had to win to come back in 2022 & “6” comes to mind that many settled on?

Question now is if Wren Baker has to do more than 2022 & 2023 to keep our momentum going in recruiting since the wolves at our door will multiply.  
The last 5 weeks have proven that our past 2 or 3 highly rated CUSA recruiting classes are paying nice dividends now with our youth program, but then we will move forward with a more competitive AAC membership in 2023. 

🦅

Edited December 2, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

On 11/29/2021 at 10:53 PM, NT93 said:

The “Get Rid of Seth” ship has sailed.  I was on board, but got on a lifeboat after Saturday.  I’m not happy with 6 wins nor am I happy with how we got steamrolled by UAB and Marshall.  However, I am happy with the turnaround I’ve seen when it would have been very easy to quit.  We have played disciplined football with very few boneheaded mistakes.  We are not expecting our QB to win games and more importantly, we really aren’t allowing him to lose games.  And that defense:  Young, fast, and aggressive. A team that was an absolute beating to watch early in the season has become very fun to watch.  They are playing with a lot of emotion, but it’s a controlled excitement, unlike early in the year.
 

Plus, I think it’s too late to get rid of him now and I don’t think it would be good to be a part of all these falling dominoes.  I can’t recall a crazier end of season coaching carousel.   

 

My feelings exactly. I just hope that Littrell can finally hit on a Mason Fine replacement or a knowledgeable QB coach because that is the main thing this team needs to take the next step.

[wardly]

16 minutes ago, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

 

My feelings exactly. I just hope that Littrell can finally hit on a Mason Fine replacement or a knowledgeable QB coach because that is the main thing this team needs to take the next step.

So what do we read into Wren's silence on the fate of Seth? Anything?

[Tom McKrackin]

10 minutes ago, wardly said:

So what do we read into Wren's silence on the fate of Seth? Anything?

Good question.  Pure speculation on my part but could it be leverage to ensure a good outcome in the bowl?

[wardly]

15 hours ago, Tom McKrackin said:

Good question.  Pure speculation on my part but could it be leverage to ensure a good outcome in the bowl?

I am clueless.

[UNTLifer]

15 hours ago, wardly said:

So what do we read into Wren's silence on the fate of Seth? Anything?

Nothing.  Wren has never stated that his position was in jeopardy.  That has been message board fodder since week three.

[wardly]

21 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

Are you saying this team doesn't need balance?  Then you are wrong in telling me I am wrong. 😜 Are hypothesizing about our team's future based purely on the performance of a team built totally different than ours is offensively?  Coach Mac was all about the running game and defense from day one.  The that short burst of success came in year 3 of his tenure when his system was fully implemented.  When Seth came here some wondered if he would invest in having good tight ends on the roster at all.  I bet if you ask some tight ends that were here when Seth arrived they are were justifiably worried about their playing time based on where Seth was coming from. Do you realize that OSU was forced to play a nickel defense due to injuries during that game?  

You win games consistently by being balanced on offense and making your opponent one dimensional with good Defense

What happened to "Let if Fly".   You can abruptly change the whole philosophy of the program based on this game or even this winning streak.  But to be better than 7-5 next year they are going to have to be balanced on offense.  And I am sorry 180 yards isn't going to cut in most Saturdays.  Good Teams in your conference will not let you be successful being one dimensional consistently.   Harbaugh has spent years building that team to do exactly what it did to OSU this past Saturday.   And while yardage was low Michigan very efficient throwing the ball the few times they threw it completing 70% of their passes.   Let look at the efficiency passing stats for the last 3 years

2019 Completions 62.3% Completion (Mason's Last Year)

2020 Completion 55.1%

2021 Completion 52.2% 

So we are trending down in just raw passing efficiency.  So if the Harbaugh is the model; let's compare

2019 Completion 55.6% 

2020 Completion 57.7%

2021 Completion 64% 

So if "Harbaugh Ball" is the model you want (or that will win here) it doesn't make sense to be really passionate about holding on to a coach that came here as a "Spread the ball around" offensive coach that is trending down in passing efficiency as much as Michigan is trending up in passing efficiency.  🤷🏽‍♂️

@Side.Show.Joe can you help me out here? 😒  I have a headache 

 

 

Two wrongs don't make a right

[Mike Jackson]

2 hours ago, wardly said:

Two wrongs don't make a right

🤔 So being balanced is not how you win Consistently unless you are running the triple option like one of the service academies?  🙄

[greenminer]

If you can run it up the middle for 4 yards without fail, why bother passing?

Balance isn't necessary, but if you're playing people that are pretty close to as good as you are, it helps to be a threat on various parts of the field.  Gives you more options to manipulate space and matchups.

[Mean Green Matt]

2 minutes ago, greenminer said:

If you can run it up the middle for 4 yards without fail, why bother passing?

Balance isn't necessary, but if you're playing people that are pretty close to as good as you are, it helps to be a threat on various parts of the field.  Gives you more options to manipulate space and matchups.

It was a blast on Saturday watching UTSA know exactly what we were going to do and be entirely unable to stop it. 

[wardly]

1 hour ago, Mike Jackson said:

🤔 So being balanced is not how you win Consistently unless you are running the triple option like one of the service academies?  🙄

Sarcasm appears to be lost on this site.

[CaribbeanGreen]

On 12/1/2021 at 12:25 PM, UNTLifer said:

I going way out on a limb here, but I think Ruder may surprise some folks after spending a year in the system.  Just a hunch.

I have no solid reason to feel this way, but I completely agree with you

[greenminer]

4 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

It was a blast on Saturday watching UTSA know exactly what we were going to do and be entirely unable to stop it. 

Yes! Shades of old-school Nebraska option: you know exactly what we're going to do, and you can't stop us from doing it.

Can't think of anything more demoralizing to a defense.

[PlummMeanGreen]

7 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

It was a blast on Saturday watching UTSA know exactly what we were going to do and be entirely unable to stop it. 

Yes!

It was like watching the UT Horns in their 1969 N.C. team when their opponents knew exactly what they were going to run & they still couldn’t stop Street, Worster, Koy & Bertelson in their Wishbone offense.