Justin Fuente Fired from Virginia Tech

[TheColonyEagle]

23 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

How is Fuente doing now? Because Carthel has SFA ranked 22nd in FCS.

Carthel is moving up my list quickly 

[Zeleny' Orel]

If we are in the market for a new coach, why do most of you assume that Jason Fuente will not get some better offers than UNT?  Would we want someone that didn't get interest from other schools at least at our level or higher?  I know we talk about an "association" with Wren Baker, but does anyone know if they just worked together of if they were actually friends?

[Marty]

Meh on Fuente. As someone posted earlier, seems like the second coming of Littrell.

[NT93]

Fuente doesn’t do much for me either.  I’d need to do some research and see how many coaches who were successful at a G5, moved on to a P5, then came back to a G5 and we’re successful again.  

[greenminer]

8 minutes ago, NT93 said:

Fuente doesn’t do much for me either.  I’d need to do some research and see how many coaches who were successful at a G5, moved on to a P5, then came back to a G5 and we’re successful again.  

The GMG.com authorities have already done this research for you, my friend! We have it on Wikipedia *cough* good sources that they do, in fact, exist.  Dykes is one of them.

[greenminer]

3 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

The problem that I think will only get worse is spending one or two years developing HS talent and then they jump in the portal. The portal should be a go-to for areas of need and building depth. The problem with the portal is having the staff to evaluate how that players skillsets translate to your program. 

Honest Q: What makes you think it will get worse? Nothing in the rule book about transferring is changing (one year to sit, etc).

[Cr1028]

31 minutes ago, NT93 said:

Fuente doesn’t do much for me either.  I’d need to do some research and see how many coaches who were successful at a G5, moved on to a P5, then came back to a G5 and we’re successful again.  

 

21 minutes ago, greenminer said:

The GMG.com authorities have already done this research for you, my friend! We have it on Wikipedia *cough* good sources that they do, in fact, exist.  Dykes is one of them.

Make sure to consider those who failed under similar circumstances like Charlie Strong. There is probably a healthy number in each category.

[greenminer]

Just now, Cr1028 said:

Make sure to consider those who failed under similar circumstances like Charlie Strong. There is probably a healthy number in each category.

Correct.  Likewise, for all those rooting for Carthel, you can probably find plenty of examples of coaches moving up from FCS or DII that fail, as well as examples of success.

Risk everywhere.

[NT93]

2 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

 

Make sure to consider those who failed under similar circumstances like Charlie Strong. There is probably a healthy number in each category.

I’d like to see a list of all coaches who have taken that path.  I wouldn’t think the list would be very long, especially in the past 10 years or so.

[meangreenJW]

2 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

Seth inherited a 1-11 team that set the record for the worst FBS loss to a FCS team in college football history. I think Seth wins on inheritance of futility.

Except he actually doesn't you just want to believe he does. I get it. You're pro Seth. Maybe he's your neighbor. I've been a fan too and I wouldn't be angry if he got another year at 5-7 although I lean towards making a change. But saying he has the same resume as Fuente isn't true. I took the time to look up the most fair analytic comparison,the Sagarin ratings. This is what each coach inherited and what they did with it. I started three years before they took over and then ran the numbers for their tenure. You could argue they took over the same quality of team (if anything Memphis was slightly worse). But Fuente's success way surpasses Littrells. Seth's best team was in 2018 when he was #83 in the Sagarin. 4 of his 6 seasons he finished lower than 130. There's only 130 FBS teams so that means that using unbiased analytical statistics, there were FCS teams that finished higher than UNT in those years.  I'm not saying Fuente is the best coach for UNT I'll Wren and Neal determine that but what I will say is the job Fuente did at Memphis was considerably more impressive than what Seth has done at UNT and arguing otherwise isn't is based on logic or facts. 

Year	Sagarain		Year	Sagarin
2013	63		2009	130
2014	144		2010	173
2015	180		2011	182
2016	146	Littrell	2012	123	Fuente
2017	101	Littrell	2013	107	Fuente
2018	83	Littrell	2014	39	Fuente
2019	133	Littrell	2015	48	Fuente
2020	143	Littrell
2021	134	Littrell

 

[meangreenJW]

11 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

For me, the Covid year is not a factor. For me that year has no significance on my thoughts for or against Littrell so I’m looking at this season with Bennett as DC as the beginning of the 2nd Littrell tenure. It got off to a rocky start but we’ve picked it uo as of late, obviously against mostly poor teams but under most coaching staffs we have fired, the players would’ve given up and lost those games. The fact that we are making strides this late in the season tells me this horse isn’t dead yet.

COVID was a nationwide issue affecting everyone. It's not like we were disadvantaged. In fact, it had a more profound effect on teams on the east and west coast because they had much more stringent protocols (Cal is still being wrecked by COVID). If anything I think we benefited from COVID, we got to cancel A&M, UAB and Houston. All three would have been losses and the UTEP game was moved here. We barely won. I have little doubt we'd have lost that game if it were in El Paso.

[TreeFiddy]

9 hours ago, Tom McKrackin said:

For goodness sakes gomey, Memphis was a dog when he took them over, and Franklin Beamer was a legend he was never going to replace fully at VaTech.  Let's cut the guy some slack here.  Also he has already won the American conference which is a plus.

People said the same things you are saying when Sonny landed at SMU after getting canned at Cal.  In fact,

my biggest concern about Fue is that he may end up at Smu when Sonny takes Tcu...

What makes you so sure TCU won't hire Fuente?

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

Correct.  Likewise, for all those rooting for Carthel, you can probably find plenty of examples of coaches moving up from FCS or DII that fail, as well as examples of success.

Risk everywhere.

100% true

[El Paso Eagle]

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

Honest Q: What makes you think it will get worse? Nothing in the rule book about transferring is changing (one year to sit, etc).

I think the P5's and the top G5's are getting better (adding dedicated full time staffing) at utilizing the portals and developing backdoor channels to recruit players into the portals.

[AsianEagle]

4 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I can see this happening:

Baker brings Littrell in and says "I'll give you one more year but I want to see heavy transfer portal in here next year" And he's back.

At 5-7 and "we're so young....we're building!" I can totally see that conversation happening.

I don’t know. Something is not right when you have to tell a $2M, 6th year head coach how to build a team. If he can’t figure that out already then do we really need him here?

[El Paso Eagle]

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

Correct.  Likewise, for all those rooting for Carthel, you can probably find plenty of examples of coaches moving up from FCS or DII that fail, as well as examples of success.

Risk everywhere.

Agree completely. There are no sure bets or every hire would be the potential last hire.

[emmitt01]

12 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

No, at this point, I’d prefer to keep Seth another year. I’ve seen enough growth on the defensive side of the ball to give me hope. The offense is very close but just a quarterback/receiver connection from being really good. If Aune could get his deep ball in the same spot he got it to D. Brown every time, we’d be a force.

IF…and I’m not banking on the candy and nuts to have a merry Christmas 

[Jonnyeagle]

 

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, meangreenJW said:

Except he actually doesn't you just want to believe he does. I get it. You're pro Seth. Maybe he's your neighbor. I've been a fan too and I wouldn't be angry if he got another year at 5-7 although I lean towards making a change. But saying he has the same resume as Fuente isn't true. I took the time to look up the most fair analytic comparison,the Sagarin ratings. This is what each coach inherited and what they did with it. I started three years before they took over and then ran the numbers for their tenure. You could argue they took over the same quality of team (if anything Memphis was slightly worse). But Fuente's success way surpasses Littrells. Seth's best team was in 2018 when he was #83 in the Sagarin. 4 of his 6 seasons he finished lower than 130. There's only 130 FBS teams so that means that using unbiased analytical statistics, there were FCS teams that finished higher than UNT in those years.  I'm not saying Fuente is the best coach for UNT I'll Wren and Neal determine that but what I will say is the job Fuente did at Memphis was considerably more impressive than what Seth has done at UNT and arguing otherwise isn't is based on logic or facts. 

Year	Sagarain		Year	Sagarin
2013	63		2009	130
2014	144		2010	173
2015	180		2011	182
2016	146	Littrell	2012	123	Fuente
2017	101	Littrell	2013	107	Fuente
2018	83	Littrell	2014	39	Fuente
2019	133	Littrell	2015	48	Fuente
2020	143	Littrell
2021	134	Littrell

 

Of course you would include our 2013 season because it makes the program look better than it was when Seth showed up. Seth didn’t inherit that team, he inherited a team that went 1-11 and lost 66-7 to FCS Portland friggin State. If you contend that the 2011 Memphis team that Fuente inherited was worse than the 2015 UNT team that Seth took on, I am astounded. Sagarin numbers are inconsistent because of the inclusion of FCS teams.

Someone mentioned Fuente’s mediocre win/loss record at Memphis and you dismissed ir because they sucked for 3 years before he got there. I simply pointed out that Seth could use that excuse too. If you put our 2015 team on the field against ANY of those 3 bad Memphis teams you mentions, we would get smoked up and down the field. Jeff Sagarin didn’t watch PSU kick the crap out of us, I did. That was the worst team I have ever seen fielded by this university including Todd Dodge’s team that got b-slapped by Rice and Dickey’s team that needed 7OTs in a pillow fight to beat a FIU team that would finish the season 0-12.

You think I’m propping Seth up, I’m not. I’ve never been within 40 yards of him. What I do look at is risk. If you grab Fuente and he sucks, you are married to that suckage for 3 more years minimum(plus another buyout on top of Seth/Bennett’s). Fuente doesn’t have enough history winning championships for me to just scrap it all and take a leap of faith because he once worked at the same school as Wren. If Seth is showing a glimmer of hope that things could be turning around, I feel the benefits outweigh the risk because you are at worst throwing away a single season but also saving millions in buyout money that would’ve gone to Seth and Bennett.

Some laugh at me because I like Colby Carthel. Sure he hasn’t won at this level but he hasn’t been fired at any level either. He methodically build from the ground up for sustained success. As much as I’d like for Colby to be the head man in Denton, I’d still rather keep Seth around for one more season unless the team that played Marshall shows up again at which point, you can’t let that slide.

[Cr1028]

39 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

IF…and I’m not banking on the candy and nuts to have a merry Christmas 

You aren’t wrong.

[MeanGreenTexan]

10 hours ago, TreeFiddy said:

What makes you so sure TCU won't hire Fuente?

[El Paso Eagle]

9 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

Some laugh at me because I like Colby Carthel. Sure he hasn’t won at this level but he hasn’t been fired at any level either. He methodically build from the ground up for sustained success. As much as I’d like for Colby to be the head man in Denton, I’d still rather keep Seth around for one more season unless the team that played Marshall shows up again at which point, you can’t let that slide.

[MeanGreenTexan]

10 hours ago, Jonnyeagle said:

 

Sounds like they think he wasn't able to recruit their area well & "engage the Mid-Atlantic community", and that's what led to his recent down years.

Come on home to the fertile Texas/Oklahoma recruiting grounds you know so well Fue!

[UNT Mean Green]

3 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Sounds like they think he wasn't able to recruit their area well & "engage the Mid-Atlantic community", and that's what led to his recent down years.

Come on home to the fertile Texas/Oklahoma recruiting grounds you know so well Fue!

Reading this article  shed some light on those dynamics at Va Tech and how the landscape in the ACC and that geography evolved over his career in Blacksburg. His assistant coaches & recruiting budgets were near AAC level (not ACC), and those peer schools in the geographic area (UNC, NC State, Virginia) really stepped up their game from an investment standpoint; whereas Virginia Tech did not. I'm not suggesting this was the root cause of the downturn, but it had to be a factor. Additionally, the VT class is currently ranked 4th in ACC and 22nd in the country at the time of JF firing. 

Net of it all, recruiting in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Louisiana should offer prime real estate to bring studs to Denton! 

[Aquila_Viridis]

Ha Ha. 'If only we had a quarterback.'  The real question is, why DON'T we have a quarterback. Get this joker out of here and give us a chance for enduring success.