FIU Football: Butch Davis is telling the truth — and the truth hurts

[meangreen11]

Recruiting is the lifeblood of a program.

This is a sentence used by Butch Davis countless times when talking about the importance of a successful recruiting period and signing day.
 

Last Saturday’s 50-10 loss at Middle Tennessee dropped FIU to 1-9 on the season and 1-16 since the upset win over Miami in 2019. FIU hasn’t won a road game since November 17, 2018, at Charlotte. The obvious question on the minds of fans and outsiders alike has been simple. How has the program fallen on such hard times after qualifying for three consecutive bowls and a program-record nine wins in 2018?

read more:  https://www.underdogdynasty.com/platform/amp/2021/11/14/22770810/fiu-football-butch-davis-is-telling-the-truth-and-the-truth-hurts-cfb-miami-college-football

[El Paso Eagle]

There are a couple of things that are becoming more and more evident in G5 football. First, players rated 3-star range are very difficult to project how well they actually will play. It seems more and more low/mid three stars are bust and most likely in the past would have been rated two stars. It just seems 3 stars are becoming easier to be assigned. Second, coaching staff have to spend as much, if not more time recruiting their own good players to stay in a G5 School. Combine that with the fact that schools are initiating contact before players enter the portal it is a very difficult job to keep young talent.

[Tom McKrackin]

28 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

There are a couple of things that are becoming more and more evident in G5 football. First, players rated 3-star range are very difficult to project how well they actually will play. It seems more and more low/mid three stars are bust and most likely in the past would have been rated two stars. It just seems 3 stars are becoming easier to be assigned. Second, coaching staff have to spend as much, if not more time recruiting their own good players to stay in a G5 School. Combine that with the fact that schools are initiating contact before players enter the portal it is a very difficult job to keep young talent.

I have been making similar points as you on recruiting and am glad you have decided to join me.  The recruiting services spend 0 time on the 2-3 stars heck it seems like 2 stars don’t even exist.  It’s really all about which G5 schools drive the most subscriptions or have the most leverage through paid advertising.  Simply put it is all about money.

If you want to determine how good a recruit is look at ACTIVE offers and what schools have offered. We need transparency!!! I submit that if we created a national offer board that kept a record of LEGITIMATE offers and held schools accountable for giving offers it would provide much clarity to the process.

The way things are now is the recruiting services hold camps and use the camps as a way to “evaluate” their prospects in attendance.  A recruit could have one bad series at these camps and be given a low score that follows him for the armrest of his life.  It’s very unfair and it happened to my nephew.

[GrandGreen]

25 minutes ago, Tom McKrackin said:

I have been making similar points as you on recruiting and am glad you have decided to join me.  The recruiting services spend 0 time on the 2-3 stars heck it seems like 2 stars don’t even exist.  It’s really all about which G5 schools drive the most subscriptions or have the most leverage through paid advertising.  Simply put it is all about money.

If you want to determine how good a recruit is look at ACTIVE offers and what schools have offered. We need transparency!!! I submit that if we created a national offer board that kept a record of LEGITIMATE offers and held schools accountable for giving offers it would provide much clarity to the process.

The way things are now is the recruiting services hold camps and use the camps as a way to “evaluate” their prospects in attendance.  A recruit could have one bad series at these camps and be given a low score that follows him for the armrest of his life.  It’s very unfair and it happened to my nephew.

Obviously, 3 stars only means a player is good enough for a D1 ship somewhere.

However, I disagree about your assessment of recruiting services.  The reported offers a recruit has, are the main factors in what ranking they receive.  

Outside of maybe the very top recruits in an area, I doubt if most players are even evaluated by recruiting agencies.    

Some image of a group of football experts pouring over loads of film and actually going to games is mostly myth. 

Teams spend millions of dollars on recruiting and than chose what players to offer.  It is much more logical to base rankings on this process than to rely on rating service employee's judgment. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by GrandGreen

[Tom McKrackin]

22 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Obviously, 3 stars only means a player is good enough for a D1 ship somewhere.

However, I disagree about your assessment of recruiting services.  The reported offers a recruit has, are the main factors in what ranking they receive.  

Outside of maybe the very top recruits in an area, I doubt if most players are even evaluated by recruiting agencies.    

Some image of a group of football experts pouring over loads of film and actually going to games is mostly myth. 

Teams spend millions of dollars on recruiting and than chose what players to offer.  It is much more logical to base rankings on this process than to rely on rating service employee's judgment. 

How can you disagree with my assessment?  We all know that every single year teams OVER offer meaning they offer way more guys than they could ever possibly have because at maximum you can add no more than 25 scholarship players a year.  UNT alone probably offers over 100!  Not all of these offer will stick and yet the recruiting services rarely remove an offer from their websites once it has been pulled from a 2-3 star player.  I call bullshit on it.  It’s a system that lives off of 5 to 10 times as many REAL legitimate offers as actually exist.  
 

When you read player bios they say “he held offers from Tulsa, Memphis etc” when in reality he had initial offers or “offers with a catch” and those offers were removed later in the process when said school filled up their scholarship allotment.

All I am proposing is let’s gets some damn transparency in this stuff.  And let’s quit pretending that recruiting rankings mean jack squat until we do.

[outoftown]

Well. Davis can be as unhappy as he wants that players aren't willing to wait their turn. The portal looks like it is here to stay, and he can adapt or perish. Looks like he chose perish. SL should take note, because his handling of the portal so far also does not exactly scream of a proper understanding of how to handle the changed landscape.

Edited November 15, 2021 by outoftown

[UNTLifer]

35 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

However, I disagree about your assessment of recruiting services.  The reported offers a recruit has, are the main factors in what ranking they receive.  

Outside of maybe the very top recruits in an area, I doubt if most players are even evaluated by recruiting agencies.   

Some image of a group of football experts pouring over loads of film and actually going to games is mostly myth. 

I agree.  My take is outside of the 5 and 4 star prospects, these services look at reports from camps as their main source of ranking recruits.  Look at this year and last for example.  The pandemic shut down these camps and the number of unranked players skyrocketed.  Highlight tapes are all they have to look at and they don't have the staff to scour tens or thousands of videos.  They rely on what the kid puts out there and the offer lists they are receiving.  Watch some of these highlight tapes and you will soon realize that they are mainly against one or two teams that they dominate.

[greeneagle1]

15 minutes ago, outoftown said:

Well. Davis can be as unhappy as he wants that players aren't willing to wait their turn. The portal looks like it is here to stay, and he can adapt or perish. Looks like he chose perish. SL should take note, because his handling of the portal so far also does not exactly scream of a proper understanding of how to handle the changed landscape.

SL should call his bff in University Park and ask him how to use the portal. 

[GrandGreen]

1 hour ago, Tom McKrackin said:

How can you disagree with my assessment?  We all know that every single year teams OVER offer meaning they offer way more guys than they could ever possibly have because at maximum you can add no more than 25 scholarship players a year.  UNT alone probably offers over 100!  Not all of these offer will stick and yet the recruiting services rarely remove an offer from their websites once it has been pulled from a 2-3 star player.  I call bullshit on it.  It’s a system that lives off of 5 to 10 times as many REAL legitimate offers as actually exist.  
 

When you read player bios they say “he held offers from Tulsa, Memphis etc” when in reality he had initial offers or “offers with a catch” and those offers were removed later in the process when said school filled up their scholarship allotment.

All I am proposing is let’s gets some damn transparency in this stuff.  And let’s quit pretending that recruiting rankings mean jack squat until we do.

What you are asking for is never going to happy.  There is no money to be made tracking every D1 recruits actual recruiting process. 

There are really no good sources;  the school cannot comment and the athletes are going to obviously report what puts them in the best light. 

There are hundreds of offers as you stated, although I am not sure what that proves.   Schools even the Alabama's of the world, don't sign every recruit they want. 

G5's offer top players they know that they have no realistic chance to sign.   Recruits cite offers that were only form letters received. 

I don't put any weight into offers, any team can offer any athlete.   My interest only occurs at the commitment stage. 

 

[Mean Green 93-98]

Departing Coach Butch Davis says that FIU is "sabotaging the program"...

Quote

Butch Davis will not return as coach at FIU in 2022 after five seasons leading the Panthers....Davis, whose contract expires on Dec. 15, is also spilling the beans on issues he believes have been plaguing the team -- going so far as to say that the administration is "sabotaging" the football program. 

Davis claims that all of the shoulder pads available to players were 10 years old when he arrived as coach in 2017. As a result, the school received used shoulder pads from Mississippi State that were 5 years old at no cost. He also alleges the school did not allow the coaching staff to go out recruiting -- even after the COVID-19 pandemic -- due to school policy and financial restraints. If that wasn't enough, the school posted a job opening for the head football coaching position during this season.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/fiu-is-sabotaging-football-program-claims-coach-butch-davis-who-will-not-return-in-2022-season/

[Cr1028]

2 hours ago, greeneagle1 said:

SL should call his bff in University Park and ask him how to use the portal. 

If he could borrow their BOLD NIL program, I’m sure he would.

[Cr1028]

13 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Departing Coach Butch Davis says that FIU is "sabotaging the program"...

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/fiu-is-sabotaging-football-program-claims-coach-butch-davis-who-will-not-return-in-2022-season/

Regardless of how you feel about Butch Davis, it seems pretty sorry to post his job without telling him he was being let go.

[outoftown]

1 hour ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Departing Coach Butch Davis says that FIU is "sabotaging the program"...

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/fiu-is-sabotaging-football-program-claims-coach-butch-davis-who-will-not-return-in-2022-season/

He was no good the last two seasons (actually not that bad before). Looks like he might go Darrell Dickey on them now and maybe its partially sour grapes. That said, if the things he says are true, that is really an indictment on FIU administrations commitment and explains why one of the countries biggest universities -in a pretty geography too- was unceremoniously left behind on an island in connference realignment.

Edited November 15, 2021 by outoftown

[golfingomez]

47 minutes ago, outoftown said:

He was no good the last two seasons (actually not that bad before). Looks like he might go Darrell Dickey on them now and maybe its partially sour grapes. That said, if the things he says are true, that is really an indictment on FIU administrations commitment and explains why one of the countries biggest universities -in a pretty geography too- was unceremoniously left behind on an island in connference realignment.

lol, i was about to say, watch out for some fun jersey action on Saturday from FIU

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

This is getting really really bad for them.    

Does this maybe force the players to circle the wagons and play for themselves?   Maybe show some inspiration this weekend?

[El Paso Eagle]

5 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

This is getting really really bad for them.    

Does this maybe force the players to circle the wagons and play for themselves?   Maybe show some inspiration this weekend?

For one game who knows what could happen. Look at TCU V Baylor

[golfingomez]

8 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

For one game who knows what could happen. Look at TCU V Baylor

i agree with the one game theory, but i think responses like that are better when there is a change at the HC position.

[El Paso Eagle]

2 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

i agree with the one game theory, but i think responses like that are better when there is a change at the HC position.

Depends on how the players feel about Davis. He is being forced out. Will be interesting to see how many FIU players hit the portal

[UNTLifer]

Is this Davis wanting FIU to release him now instead of going through with the "Dead Man Walking" routine?  Can't see how the team will respond positively after basically calling them non-D1 players.

[outoftown]

Well, I don't know. Davis also said that he is playing about 15-20 players who don't have FBS level. Doubt the players feel great about that statement

[El Paso Eagle]

1 hour ago, outoftown said:

Well, I don't know. Davis also said that he is playing about 15-20 players who don't have FBS level. Doubt the players feel great about that statement

And they could be playing to show him he's wrong and they are FBS level

[GrayEagle]

10 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Is this Davis wanting FIU to release him now instead of going through with the "Dead Man Walking" routine?  Can't see how the team will respond positively after basically calling them non-D1 players.

I believe that Butch Davis is officially retiring.

[VideoEagle]

6 hours ago, GrayEagle said:

I believe that Butch Davis is officially retiring.

I believe he already has!