UNT Losses

[Cr1028]

42 minutes ago, GRN-WHT said:

So because we’ve never won in the past, we should never expect to win in the future, no matter how much money we put into the program. Got it, I understand now. 
 

Let’s just pay our next coach $700k and call it good and celebrate when we #hit6 once a decade. 

I’m saying throwing money at a revolving door of coaches doesn’t guarantee you into ULL’s situation. Look at Texas. They’ve been throwing tens of millions down the drain for a decade now. If you want a different dish, you gotta change the recipe.

[greenminer]

59 minutes ago, GRN-WHT said:

So because we’ve never won in the past, we should never expect to win in the future, no matter how much money we put into the program. Got it, I understand now. 
 

Let’s just pay our next coach $700k and call it good and celebrate when we #hit6 once a decade. 

I went a bit down this path with him in another thread.

 

On 11/10/2021 at 8:16 AM, Cr1028 said:

I agree with the “we shouldn’t be paying this much”.

 

[UNTLifer]

3 hours ago, Hookset said:

Your right. Build a smallish stadium that never sells out, a smallish weight room that the football program has to share with all programs, a small training room to treat all of the programs injuries, and a really nice indoor practice facility. 
UNT should be a top 25 program annually!!!

Not unrealistic at all…

No you’re right. Littrell was hired as an up and coming coach that had built, or been a part of building, prolific offenses at UNC, Indiana, Arizona, etc.  He also said this place could be a monster. He has built our recruiting and is in his 6th year. His track record is beating bad teams, losing to anyone with a winning record and having teams that appear ill prepared. I like him as a person but it is time to produce and he isn’t. 

[outoftown]

9 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

Why are we even talking about this?  It is year 6.  One good QB in that entire tenure and the rest just slightly below mediocre in their BEST games.  SL has an offense background.  He isn’t a great recruiter.  So all we can and should judge him on at this point is winning most of his games.   He hasn’t done that in 3 years.   (That is counting a FCS pushover gimme win each season).  Bring him back without at the very least beating UTSA would be ridiculous in my opinion.  And without winning out I think he should be gone.  

To be fair, he has been recruiting pretty well since year 3. His problem is his inability to properly work the transfer portal.

3 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

No you’re right. Littrell was hired as an up and coming coach that had built, or been a part of building, prolific offenses at UNC, Indiana, Arizona, etc.  He also said this place could be a monster. He has built our recruiting and is in his 6th year. His track record is beating bad teams, losing to anyone with a winning record and having teams that appear ill prepared. I like him as a person but it is time to produce and he isn’t. 

This.

[Hookset]

9 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

No you’re right. Littrell was hired as an up and coming coach that had built, or been a part of building, prolific offenses at UNC, Indiana, Arizona, etc.  He also said this place could be a monster. He has built our recruiting and is in his 6th year. His track record is beating bad teams, losing to anyone with a winning record and having teams that appear ill prepared. I like him as a person but it is time to produce and he isn’t. 

We aren’t a monster yet. We have been consistently better. 
The problem is that “consistently better” has been lower 1/3 to top 2/3’s. 

Becoming a top 1/3 team consistently for a program like ours will take time. Recruiting has to keep getting better (it is getting better). Getting some better quality players from the portal (we got some on defense, offense has been inconsistent).

How many good QB’s have pledged for months only to flip right before signing day to a bigger program?

 So many have said this young team is going to play so well for the next coach. They will play well for the current coach also.

[UNTLifer]

2 minutes ago, Hookset said:

We aren’t a monster yet. We have been consistently better. 

How many good QB’s have pledged for months only to flip right before signing day to a bigger program?

 

In our sixth year of Littrell's tenure, can you really state that we are getting consistently better?  You think we are better today than we were in 2017 or '18 when we won nine games and had Fine at QB?

 

How many good QB's have flipped at the last minute.  I'll hang up and listen.

[golfingomez]

44 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

In our sixth year of Littrell's tenure, can you really state that we are getting consistently better?  You think we are better today than we were in 2017 or '18 when we won nine games and had Fine at QB?

 

How many good QB's have flipped at the last minute.  I'll hang up and listen.

i think his point is that we are consistently better, not consistently getting better. 

Since Dickey's 2004 season, we had:

0 seasons with at least 4 wins until 2010 (Dickey and Dodge)

4 seasons with at least 4 wins through 2015 (McCarney)

6 seasons with at least 4 wins until now (Littrell)

I'm fine if your argument is that Littrell hasn't gotten us to where you think the money should take us, but it's damn near impossible to argue that this program isn't miles ahead of where it was. 

 

[Mike Jackson]

7 hours ago, outoftown said:

To be fair, he has been recruiting pretty well since year 3. His problem is his inability to properly work the transfer portal.

This.

Pretty Well isn’t great or even good when factor in not being able to recruit good QB as an offensive head coach.  My evaluation would be totally different if the offense was putting up 30+ points in most of their losses in close games.  So being totally fair his recruiting is either mediocre or his actual offensive coaching is just plain bad.  Good recruiting means you get good players who can actually play once they get into a conference game.  So I really don’t see anything that would warrant keeping SL around beyond this year without winning out.   Winning out could be taken as a sign the program is on the upswing.  It’s just cost savings and not having a coach you really covet available to replace him move.  At this point I would co-sign just giving Phil a modest 4 year contract and bringing a hot OC or DC as associate head coach and heir apparent (assuming SL doesn’t get a bowl game).  Six years in an offensive head coach should have the offense fully functional.  Dickey’s heir apparent QB died and I don’t recall most of us giving him a pass when the offense tanked.  

[SilverEagle]

14 hours ago, Hookset said:

Your right. Build a smallish stadium that never sells out, a smallish weight room that the football program has to share with all programs, a small training room to treat all of the programs injuries, and a really nice indoor practice facility. 
UNT should be a top 25 program annually!!!

Not unrealistic at all…

So, tell me about the fabulous facilities at UTSA (#15 in the nation......somewhere we have never been), and how they account for ALL of UTSA's success.

[golfingomez]

11 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

Pretty Well isn’t great or even good when factor in not being able to recruit good QB as an offensive head coach.  My evaluation would be totally different if the offense was putting up 30+ points in most of their losses in close games.  So being totally fair his recruiting is either mediocre or his actual offensive coaching is just plain bad.  Good recruiting means you get good players who can actually play once they get into a conference game.  So I really don’t see anything that would warrant keeping SL around beyond this year without winning out.   Winning out could be taken as a sign the program is on the upswing.  It’s just cost savings and not having a coach you really covet available to replace him move.  At this point I would co-sign just giving Phil a modest 4 year contract and bringing a hot OC or DC as associate head coach and heir apparent (assuming SL doesn’t get a bowl game).  Six years in an offensive head coach should have the offense fully functional.  Dickey’s heir apparent QB died and I don’t recall most of us giving him a pass when the offense tanked.  

IF we get rid of Seth, please god do not give the reigns to Phil Bennett, the man doesn't even want to live in the area. On top of that he has a career 19-52 record as a head coach.

[UNTLifer]

24 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

I'm fine if your argument is that Littrell hasn't gotten us to where you think the money should take us, but it's damn near impossible to argue that this program isn't miles ahead of where it was. 

 

This is my argument.

[untjim1995]

13 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

So, tell me about the fabulous facilities at UTSA (#15 in the nation......somewhere we have never been), and how they account for ALL of UTSA's success.

Facilities at the G5 levels we play at aren't nearly as important as coaching and administrative support, while also getting great media coverage. UTSA has all of this right now. We may drub them in facilities, but our coaching is subpar compared tot heirs, just the opposite of what it was before Traylor got there, and their recruits get plenty of UTSA love from SA media and from the TX HS coaches.

[MeanGreenTexan]

28 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

i think his point is that we are consistently better, not consistently getting better. 

Since Dickey's 2004 season, we had:

0 seasons with at least 4 wins until 2010 (Dickey and Dodge)

4 seasons with at least 4 wins through 2015 (McCarney)

6 seasons with at least 4 wins until now (Littrell)

I'm fine if your argument is that Littrell hasn't gotten us to where you think the money should take us, but it's damn near impossible to argue that this program isn't miles ahead of where it was. 

 

Yay!   We're better off now than we were under Rick & Gretchen/Layne!     Let's just be happy here?

We cannot allow the bar prior to Wren's/Neal's arrival be the benchmark.  That has to be in the rearview.   

The new low bar is what Seth has done, which is still a sub-.500 record at the moment.

[golfingomez]

3 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Yay!   We're better off now than we were under Rick & Gretchen/Layne!     Let's just be happy here?

We cannot allow the bar prior to Wren's/Neal's arrival be the benchmark.  That has to be in the rearview.   

The new low bar is what Seth has done, which is still a sub-.500 record at the moment.

see the last sentence in my post.

[MeanGreenTexan]

4 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

see the last sentence in my post.

That's what I'm referencing.    We're acknowledging we're way better than we were when at our lowest stretch (with the 2013 season being a complete aberration).   I am right there with you.   Good, but not great (but not bad!)

Now, let's move the bar up to what Littrell has done, and then expect way way better.    This is Wren's & Neal's vision, not just the fans. 

[wardly]

12 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

I’m saying throwing money at a revolving door of coaches doesn’t guarantee you into ULL’s situation. Look at Texas. They’ve been throwing tens of millions down the drain for a decade now. If you want a different dish, you gotta change the recipe.

Well we always wanted a football program like the University of Texas and now we have one.

[Cr1028]

There is no magic bullet. We are grinding and my eyes say Seth is developing this young team and they are maturing. Patience is key. 

[SilverEagle]

23 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Facilities at the G5 levels we play at aren't nearly as important as coaching and administrative support, while also getting great media coverage. UTSA has all of this right now. We may drub them in facilities, but our coaching is subpar compared tot heirs, just the opposite of what it was before Traylor got there, and their recruits get plenty of UTSA love from SA media and from the TX HS coaches.

BINGO!  

Professionally I used to train Foster/Adoptive parents for the state of Texas. One of the things that new applicants used to do to convince me that they had a lot to offer was talk about, and then subsequently show off, their wonderful house and neighborhood. I used to start early in the training letting the applicants know that foster children really didn't give a shit about their fabulous home. What they gave a shit about (as do all kids) is how much quality time you spend with them. They care about your ability to connect with them and their needs. AND they care about you showing that you are their advocate. Everything else is just blah, blah, blah. What makes a difference to them is you showing up every day and giving them guidance when they need it.

The successful administrators and AD's who understand that end up hiring the Coach Traylors of the college football world. AND they have their eyes on the next one come up the ranks.

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by SilverEagle

[Cr1028]

3 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

BINGO!  

Professionally I used to train Foster/Adoptive parents for the state of Texas. One of the things that new applicants used to do to convince me that they had a lot to offer was talk about, and then subsequently show off, their wonderful house and neighborhood. I used to start early in the training letting the applicants know that foster children really didn't give a shit about their fabulous home. What they gave a shit about (as do all kids) is how much quality time you spend with them. They care about your ability to connect with them and their needs. AND they care about you showing that you are their advocate. Everything else is just blah, blah, blah. What makes a difference to them is you showing up every day and giving them guidance when they need it.

The successful administrators and AD's who understand that end up hiring the Coach Traylors of the college football world. AND they have their eyes on the next one come up the ranks.

I love the way you put that and thank you for your service to the State of Texas and those kids.

[Hookset]

2 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

In our sixth year of Littrell's tenure, can you really state that we are getting consistently better?  You think we are better today than we were in 2017 or '18 when we won nine games and had Fine at QB?

 

How many good QB's have flipped at the last minute.  I'll hang up and listen.

2020 Kade Renfro

2019 Logan Holgorsen

2018 The kid that went to a prep school (can’t recall his name, but I believe he signed at Miami).

We used to have one and occasionally two decent seasons (9 wins) then drop back down to the cellar. We aren’t dropping like that now. 
The problem is we haven’t risen to the top either.

If we had better QB play, do you think we could have beaten LaTech, Liberty, and possibly even SMU?

One above average QB and this team would look different.

[Cr1028]

33 minutes ago, Hookset said:

2020 Kade Renfro

2019 Logan Holgorsen

2018 The kid that went to a prep school (can’t recall his name, but I believe he signed at Miami).

We used to have one and occasionally two decent seasons (9 wins) then drop back down to the cellar. We aren’t dropping like that now. 
The problem is we haven’t risen to the top either.

If we had better QB play, do you think we could have beaten LaTech, Liberty, and possibly even SMU?

One above average QB and this team would look different.

Wasn’t there a Colorado and/or UCLA quarterback in there too that we just missed on?

[UNTLifer]

38 minutes ago, Hookset said:

2020 Kade Renfro

2019 Logan Holgorsen

2018 The kid that went to a prep school (can’t recall his name, but I believe he signed at Miami).

We used to have one and occasionally two decent seasons (9 wins) then drop back down to the cellar. We aren’t dropping like that now. 
The problem is we haven’t risen to the top either.

If we had better QB play, do you think we could have beaten LaTech, Liberty, and possibly even SMU?

One above average QB and this team would look different.

Renfro hasn't done anything anywhere other than move from school to school.

Holgorsen ended up signing with his Dad and then entered the transfer portal.  Hasn't produced anywhere.

Debiase hasn't done anything.

These three examples tell me SL has a difficult time identifying players that can contribute at the QB position.

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

There is no magic bullet. We are grinding and my eyes say Seth is developing this young team and they are maturing. Patience is key. 

Not sure if serious.

What were your eyes telling you when the clock struck halftime at Apogee 1 month ago today (Marshall 42 - UNT 7) and everything prior to that?

What my eyes have seen this season is a team with a TON OF TALENT outside of the banged-up WR room and QB's (who, to be fair, haven't had a decent QB coach in 3 years).  That team has been able to hang points on 2nd stringers to make otherwise-blowouts look somewhat respectable, and beat bad teams as they should.    The only surprise to me was how competitive Liberty was.   We have another garbage team on the schedule this weekend.   We cannot be surprised or impressed with an expected win.

Littrell has been squeezing blood from the turnip this season, manufacturing a respectable run game offensively.   He's also getting just enough out of his defense who seem to be putting it together as of late (again, has nothing to do with the poor quality of teams we've played the last 3 weeks, right?).

The test for this team's "development" doesn't come until 11/27.  

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

Renfro hasn't done anything anywhere other than move from school to school.

Holgorsen ended up signing with his Dad and then entered the transfer portal.  Hasn't produced anywhere.

Debiase hasn't done anything.

These three examples tell me SL has a difficult time identifying players that can contribute at the QB position.

What about these guys? Rumor was we were exceptionally close on both.

https://cubuffs.com/sports/football/roster/brendon-lewis/15288

https://uclabruins.com/sports/football/roster/chase-griffin/10410

[Mo Green]

23 hours ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Other than LA Tech, our loses are to teams with a winning record…except Missouri…they are a .500 SEC team. 
 

just making a statement that this was a tough schedule. 

The only good team we played was SMU. The rest would of been winnable for any average team WITH A QB!

Yes, that is including Missouri.