We just need to renovate the pit not build a new one

[Tom McKrackin]

I've been thinking about this alot, especially with the fact we may have to buy out Seth.  Instead of building a new basketball facility we need to just update the Super Pit.  It has a fantastic central location to the campus and most of us on the site probably graduated or had classes there.  It has a lot of sentimental value to me!  We do need to replace the seats and make them wider.

This is what I think we could use as a model for the renovation:

 

 

[golfingomez]

The situation with the superpit is rough because technically i think the AD leases the Superpit for use and does not own it. Any upgrades would have to be funded seperately by the University. 

This is why the AD is happy to upgrade/buy a new court frequently (Being removable) but can't make changes to the structure.

[GrandGreen]

56 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

The situation with the superpit is rough because technically i think the AD leases the Superpit for use and does not own it. Any upgrades would have to be funded seperately by the University. 

This is why the AD is happy to upgrade/buy a new court frequently (Being removable) but can't make changes to the structure.

Here we go again.   Can the President with the approval of the BOR not make changes to any building on campus?  What makes the SPit any different.  

The school already heavily subsidizes the athletic department.  Not sure why anyone would think the SPit is excluded.  

[MDH]

2 hours ago, golfingomez said:

The situation with the superpit is rough because technically i think the AD leases the Superpit for use and does not own it. Any upgrades would have to be funded seperately by the University. 

This is why the AD is happy to upgrade/buy a new court frequently (Being removable) but can't make changes to the structure.

Right pocket, left pocket.

[golfingomez]

you guys don't have to convince me. I'm not the one holding the money here...

[MeanGreenTexan]

As we have seen with how late our basketball schedule was put together... if the university or student orgs has a sanctioned use of the Super Pit already on the schedule while Coach McCasland is trying to put together a non-conference slate for November/December, he has to work around it.   I wonder how many times we've had to turn down the opportunity to play someone at home because, "OOPS! There's a College of Merchandising fashion design show at the Super Pit scheduled for that day.", or somesuch.   
Of course, no coach is going to come out and slam those students or organizations for having something on the schedule 3 months before he started looking to fill out his schedule.  So we don't really hear about it... but it's there.

With a dedicated Basketball Arena, we won't have this problem.  Plus, anything shiny/new is nice to have when trying to recruit players!

[Mean Green Matt]

5 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

As we have seen with how late our basketball schedule was put together... if the university or student orgs has a sanctioned use of the Super Pit already on the schedule while Coach McCasland is trying to put together a non-conference slate for November/December, he has to work around it.   I wonder how many times we've had to turn down the opportunity to play someone at home because, "OOPS! There's a College of Merchandising fashion design show at the Super Pit scheduled for that day.", or somesuch.   
Of course, no coach is going to come out and slam those students or organizations for having something on the schedule 3 months before he started looking to fill out his schedule.  So we don't really hear about it... but it's there.

With a dedicated Basketball Arena, we won't have this problem.  Plus, anything shiny/new is nice to have when trying to recruit players!

Is it really though? Have you or anyone else been told by athletic department officials that this is an actual problem, not just a theoretical problem to add to the list of bullet points as to why we need to spend a bunch of money on a new arena when we already have a perfectly fine arena in a superior location. 

[greenjoe]

Just have the Athletic Department purchase the Coliseum from UNT, the university ( As goofy as that must sound).

By the time you figure in depreciation we can buy it for a song.

[bstnsportsfan3]

I explained this in a thread a few weeks back. Due to the ADA issue and the way the pit was built in the '70s, the super pit would basically have to be rebuilt from the ground up. I am talking about fundamental changes to the foundation of the building. It's not worth the time and honestly, the cost would be just as much or more. There have been several studies by the athletic department going back to the RV years and every time they come back and say it's not feasibly viable.  

[UNT86]

Also, please tell me where the basketball weight room is in the pit. I don't think there is one. Why you ask? Because the academic side owns the pit and will not add one.

We REALLY need to upgrade everything about our basketball facilities. 

[Wag Tag]

9 hours ago, bstnsportsfan3 said:

I explained this in a thread a few weeks back. Due to the ADA issue and the way the pit was built in the '70s, the super pit would basically have to be rebuilt from the ground up. I am talking about fundamental changes to the foundation of the building. It's not worth the time and honestly, the cost would be just as much or more. There have been several studies by the athletic department going back to the RV years and every time they come back and say it's not feasibly viable.  

As stated you are also dealing with asbestos which makes remodeling even more expensive. The school continues to have classes and events at the Pit. There is basically no weight room, and the trainer room is the size of a closet! An alumni was going to buy workout equipment for the team, but the school would not to give up the space. You are talking about 1500 to 2000 sq ft!! The under side is truly a Pit!

[Mean Green Matt]

1 hour ago, Wag Tag said:

As stated you are also dealing with asbestos which makes remodeling even more expensive. The school continues to have classes and events at the Pit. There is basically no weight room, and the trainer room is the size of a closet! An alumni was going to buy workout equipment for the team, but the school would not to give up the space. You are talking about 1500 to 2000 sq ft!! The under side is truly a Pit!

Shouldn’t the weight room be by their practice facility? Not in the actual super pit? Seems like that is something the athletic department could do on their own without that pesky uptight academic side getting in the way. 

[Wag Tag]

1 hour ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Shouldn’t the weight room be by their practice facility? Not in the actual super pit? Seems like that is something the athletic department could do on their own without that pesky uptight academic side getting in the way. 

They currently work out at the AD building sharing with the other sports. ( 5,000 sq ft)  It may be the Pit has the existing space? They also practice a fair amount at the Pit. They wanted to have it there so they didn’t have to go to the AD building, plus the weight room would be used in conjunction with rehab. I hope the new AD Blding is announced very soon.

[Mean Green Matt]

7 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

They currently work out at the AD building sharing with the other sports. ( 5,000 sq ft)  It may be the Pit has the existing space? They also practice a fair amount at the Pit. They wanted to have it there so they didn’t have to go to the AD building, plus the weight room would be used in conjunction with rehab. I hope the new AD Blding is announced very soon.

What I’m saying is they have a dedicated basketball practice facility in the old Liberty Christian complex. Seems like a good place to add some work out equipment. 

[Mean Green 93-98]

15 hours ago, bstnsportsfan3 said:

I explained this in a thread a few weeks back. Due to the ADA issue and the way the pit was built in the '70s, the super pit would basically have to be rebuilt from the ground up. I am talking about fundamental changes to the foundation of the building. It's not worth the time and honestly, the cost would be just as much or more. There have been several studies by the athletic department going back to the RV years and every time they come back and say it's not feasibly viable.  

Wouldn't ADA compliance only be required in a new facility?

[Wag Tag]

37 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Wouldn't ADA compliance only be required in a new facility?

No, any remodeling job over $50,000 has to be brought up to ADA compliance and certified. This was the case 4 years ago on a commercial space. Also asbestos removal is very, very expensive.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Wag Tag

[Mean Green 93-98]

40 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

No, any remodeling job over $50,000 has to be brought up to ADA compliance and certified. This was the case 4 years ago on a commercial space. Also asbestos removal is very, very expensive.

Thanks.  That's too bad.  The Super Pit really has the bones of a great facility; it just needs a major facelift.

[UNTFan23]

The SP doesn't have an elevator. In order to get from the concourse level to court level, you have exit the building and enter from either the north or south side. The north entrance has a pretty steep incline. I have no idea where or how'd you put in an elevator into the facility.

That's just one of the ADA issues the SP faces.

Edited November 14, 2021 by UNTFan23

[Mean Green Matt]

22 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

No, any remodeling job over $50,000 has to be brought up to ADA compliance and certified. This was the case 4 years ago on a commercial space. Also asbestos removal is very, very expensive.

That last round of renovation had to have cost well over $50,000.

[meangreenJW]

On 11/12/2021 at 10:30 AM, Tom McKrackin said:

I've been thinking about this alot, especially with the fact we may have to buy out Seth.  Instead of building a new basketball facility we need to just update the Super Pit.  It has a fantastic central location to the campus and most of us on the site probably graduated or had classes there.  It has a lot of sentimental value to me!  We do need to replace the seats and make them wider.

This is what I think we could use as a model for the renovation:

 

 

For the exact same reasons UNT is looking at new, so is OU. https://www.oudaily.com/sports/oklahoma-basketball-take-a-look-at-the-proposal-for-new/article_778d4232-9d8c-11e7-8d2f-bfd96c530d6d.html

The old concrete structures are next to impossible to modernize without spending more than a new one would cost. Lloyld Noble has no suites, club or premium and they never come close to filling it because it's too big. You can't create supply & demand and you can't make any money off of premium seating. It's almost the exact same issues as the Super Pit.The Ferrell Center in Waco has the same issues and is being replaced. The only school that has successfully renovated one of these types of structures is Houston which spent nearly $70 million in 2017 dollars on Hoffeinz. They have a really nice club but still no suites for that price tag which would probably be closer to $100 million in todays dollars. UNT could have a hell of a brand new arena with plenty of restrooms, ADA accomodations and premium seating right sized for less than Houston spent on their renovation. 

[Wag Tag]

1 hour ago, meangreenJW said:

For the exact same reasons UNT is looking at new, so is OU. https://www.oudaily.com/sports/oklahoma-basketball-take-a-look-at-the-proposal-for-new/article_778d4232-9d8c-11e7-8d2f-bfd96c530d6d.html

The old concrete structures are next to impossible to modernize without spending more than a new one would cost. Lloyld Noble has no suites, club or premium and they never come close to filling it because it's too big. You can't create supply & demand and you can't make any money off of premium seating. It's almost the exact same issues as the Super Pit.The Ferrell Center in Waco has the same issues and is being replaced. The only school that has successfully renovated one of these types of structures is Houston which spent nearly $70 million in 2017 dollars on Hoffeinz. They have a really nice club but still no suites for that price tag which would probably be closer to $100 million in todays dollars. UNT could have a hell of a brand new arena with plenty of restrooms, ADA accomodations and premium seating right sized for less than Houston spent on their renovation. 

Also I believe Baylor is only going to have about 7500 seats.

[golfingomez]

Ideally, UNT could practice and play games in the same space, it may sound silly, but knowing every inch of the court you play on is a pretty big cumulative effect. 

[Pavlovs Eagle]

Selfishly I really enjoy that two season tickets in the single digit rows are like $300ish dollars.  I'd hate for there to be some newness tax added to that.

And while I happily pay for Club Tix at Apogee, isn't the allure of Club Tix the amenities that aren't your seats?  For most weeknight home games we can barely get out of the office in Plano and to The Pit with more than 5 mins to spare before tip-off.  Not sure a buffet could coax us to shell out Hub Club money when we'd miss it almost half the games of the season.

[UNTcrazy727]

32 minutes ago, Pavlovs Eagle said:

Selfishly I really enjoy that two season tickets in the single digit rows are like $300ish dollars.  I'd hate for there to be some newness tax added to that.

And while I happily pay for Club Tix at Apogee, isn't the allure of Club Tix the amenities that aren't your seats?  For most weeknight home games we can barely get out of the office in Plano and to The Pit with more than 5 mins to spare before tip-off.  Not sure a buffet could coax us to shell out Hub Club money when we'd miss it almost half the games of the season.

I imagine the buffet would be open during the game?

[All About UNT]

On 11/14/2021 at 2:12 PM, meangreenJW said:

For the exact same reasons UNT is looking at new, so is OU. https://www.oudaily.com/sports/oklahoma-basketball-take-a-look-at-the-proposal-for-new/article_778d4232-9d8c-11e7-8d2f-bfd96c530d6d.html

The old concrete structures are next to impossible to modernize without spending more than a new one would cost. Lloyld Noble has no suites, club or premium and they never come close to filling it because it's too big. You can't create supply & demand and you can't make any money off of premium seating. It's almost the exact same issues as the Super Pit.The Ferrell Center in Waco has the same issues and is being replaced. The only school that has successfully renovated one of these types of structures is Houston which spent nearly $70 million in 2017 dollars on Hoffeinz. They have a really nice club but still no suites for that price tag which would probably be closer to $100 million in todays dollars. UNT could have a hell of a brand new arena with plenty of restrooms, ADA accomodations and premium seating right sized for less than Houston spent on their renovation. 

"UNT could have a hell of a brand new arena with plenty of restrooms, ADA accomodations and premium seating right sized for less than Houston spent on their renovation."

Totally agree..

Compare what has been built of late http://www.arenafanatic.com/ncaa.html

Georgia State is building a stunner for $82 Million

https://news.gsu.edu/2019/09/18/plans-revealed-for-georgia-states-new-convocation-center/

Or James Madison's beaut. at a $139 Million https://jmusports.com/facilities/atlantic-union-bank-center/31

 

Ole Miss spent $96 Million on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sandy_and_John_Black_Pavilion_at_Ole_Miss in 2016 and it fits 9,500 people