What would it take for you to have Seth come back?

[Cr1028]

10 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

What does that have to do with North Texas Football in 2021?

Precedent 

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

2 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

If there were a top 9 of Littrell's career wins against FBS teams with winning records (there aren't enough for a top 10). That UTEP team would be toward the bottom.

Below is the entire list. This is every win for Seth Littrell vs FBS winning teams in his tenure here. He had 5 of those wins in 2017. (I think that win on the road at USM that season was one of Littrell's best) They weren't world beaters, their combined records were 39-24 but winning teams none the less. Take Army (10-3) out and the combined record of the other 4 wins that season is 29-21. But credit due, Army was a 10 win team and had to be Littrell's best win here.

However it seems that 2017 was the exception and not the rule as he had 1 of those wins in 2018, 0 in 2019 and 0 in 2020. This past Saturday, UTEP was his first win against a winning FBS opponent since 2018. And as for UTEP, if they don't beat Rice Saturday, they go on the road to UAB their last game of the year. They won't be a "winning team" anymore depending on how they do in their bowl. It seems the only difference between us and UTEP is schedule timing.

As for 2017, arguably his best season, he also played some good teams and he wasn't competitive. In those games, he lost 69-31, 50-30, 54-32 (that was to 7-6 SMU) and 41-17. Those 4 blow outs were in the middle of arguably his "best" season.

The next year, 2018 the year we beat Arkansas, his schedule was much easier. And he lost to every winning team but 1 (6-5 USM, one of their wins was vs FCS) and beat every losing team except 1. (lost to 4-8 Old Dominion). Then Utah St curb stomped us 52-13 in the bowl game.

These results have happened consistently for 6 seasons.

I don't know what to think if Littrell wins next week and beats UTSA. From a UTSA point of view, if they come in here 11-0 and ranked, that game has trap written all over it. At least it would for most teams. I don't know if Littrell can pull that off.

However, even if he does, it feels like there is a large enough sample size to make a change assuming the standards are being raised here.

 

The difference between us and UTEP is that we played SMU (ranked), Liberty (ranked), and Missouri for some of our OOC games while they played SFA, ACU, and Bethune Cookman to inflate their record to become bowl eligible. Winning record or not, beating UTEP this year shouldn't be as high on the scale as some are making it out to be. I agree with your post completely. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by UNT Texas Hooligan

[MeanGreenTexan]

12 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Precedent 

But so much has changed since then!   We're not the same old cash-strapped Athletics Department.    I think Wren and Neal can afford to take more risks, and they're going to have to in order to see their vision come to reality here.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

I don't think precendent matters when dealing with non-legal issues. Precedent tells me that all the coaches before SL have been fired for just cause or not, but they all got shown the door.  

Employment continues based on meeting expectations, not precedents. We are talking about what we expect or ROI to be for this highly paid coach. 

[golfingomez]

9 minutes ago, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

 

The difference between us and UTEP is that we played SMU (ranked), Liberty (ranked), and Missouri for some of our OOC games while they played SFA, ACU, and Bethune Cookman to inflate their record to become bowl eligible. Winning record or not, beating UTEP this year shouldn't be as high on the scale as some are making it out to be. I agree with your post completely. 

lol, they only played one of those three schools, if they played all three they wouldn't be bowl eligible. UTEP is a better team than they have been. They definitely aren't world beaters, but they aren't the same old 2-3 win team.

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

13 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

lol, they only played one of those three schools, if they played all three they wouldn't be bowl eligible. UTEP is a better team than they have been. They definitely aren't world beaters, but they aren't the same old 2-3 win team.

Yeah, looked at the wrong schedule. Point is they beat a bunch teams with a losing record and a down Boise team. Their record has clearly been inflated by a garbage OOC slate

[TheColonyEagle]

42 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Precedent 

When weighing where this program should be TODAY, I just choose to use other top G5’s as a measuring stick instead of past Mean Green teams. 

[KingDL1]

Seth deserves nothing.

He will be gone regardless of what he wins the rest of the year.

His embarrassing losses earlier in the season sealed that fate. 

Expect better folks!

 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

I haven't been a fan of SL for running years.  He killed it for me in El Paso some years ago with real bowl eligibility on the line and I saw an absolute egg laid vs a pretty bad UTEP team.. With that said, if he's been able to garner the attention of the team and end the year on a 6 game winning streak with a bowl championship then he has earned the right to another year. Anything short of that he needs to go asap. 

[greenminer]

Extremely unlikely based on our past, but what would this board be like if we blew a T25 UTSA out of Denton, then had a fantastic bowl win (20+ point victory)? That would be a team and staff I want to see in 2022.

I expect to win, bottom line, and if this team continues to win, it would be alright with me to see SL stretch a 6 game winning streak into more.

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

8 hours ago, KingDL1 said:

Seth deserves nothing.

He will be gone regardless of what he wins the rest of the year.

His embarrassing losses earlier in the season sealed that fate. 

Expect better folks!

 

 

Agreed. Shouldn't matter if he beats UTSA or not. His salary and whole body of work are not in line with expectations. He's so far off the top of the conference, even after 6 years, it isn't even funny.

[WanderingEagle]

Seth just won his first game against a team with a winning record since 2017, and he was inches away from blowing it. Goodbye. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by WanderingEagle

[Venson]

At the end of the day, we on the board can want him gone, but none of us are the big money donors. We are just the diehards that love the Mean Green. If he wins out, Wren will weigh the cost of firing him based on his payout and he will listen to the big money donors. Sure he wants our money too, but how much do the few of us who come to this board really mean in the grand scheme of things? There are many others who probably contribute who never come to this board and then you have your big money donors. I believe that is what will drive Wren's decision. I agree that Seth's complete body of work in 6 years is not stellar by any stretch of the imagination, but I also believe that what we on this board want is not going to matter when Wren makes his decision to fire or retain Seth.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

34 minutes ago, Venson said:

At the end of the day, we on the board can want him gone, but none of us are the big money donors. We are just the diehards that love the Mean Green. If he wins out, Wren will weigh the cost of firing him based on his payout and he will listen to the big money donors. Sure he wants our money too, but how much do the few of us who come to this board really mean in the grand scheme of things? There are many others who probably contribute who never come to this board and then you have your big money donors. I believe that is what will drive Wren's decision. I agree that Seth's complete body of work in 6 years is not stellar by any stretch of the imagination, but I also believe that what we on this board want is not going to matter when Wren makes his decision to fire or retain Seth.

We mean everything. Power in numbers. 

[p_phelps]

On 11/11/2021 at 6:11 PM, El Paso Eagle said:

If you jumped on that MTM and told the UNT fans that we would have 3 straight seasons like we have and that there would even be a question of keeping Seth around they would laugh at you.

Especially if you tell them you had mason for one of them. That's the biggest failure to this day for Seth

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, p_phelps said:

Especially if you tell them you had mason for one of them. That's the biggest failure to this day for Seth

And Darden for 2 of them.

[Rudy]

On 11/13/2021 at 4:42 PM, GrandGreen said:

What does what he is paid have to do with anything.   If he was making 600k a year would you be happier?

Seriously?  If you pay more, you expect more. That's not football coach related. That's pure economics. If I pay $500 for a new fence, then I should expect a $500 fence. If I spend $7,0000, then I expect a $7,0000 fence.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

40 minutes ago, Rudy said:

Seriously?  If you pay more, you expect more. That's not football coach related. That's pure economics. If I pay $500 for a new fence, then I should expect a $500 fence. If I spend $7,0000, then I expect a $7,0000 fence.

lol. He and a few others have tried to make that argument. It's baffling. It's illogical. It has to ground to stand on. More money = more results. If we wanted crappy results then we would have crappy salaries. The forever old saying, 'You get what you pay for'. Except for UNT football in its current state, we aren't. That's the problem. 

[Aquila_Viridis]

The expectation of a coach is to build the fanbase and support. That takes personality, vision and consistent winning.  Total failure. We have been wasting time. I'm really really tired of wasted time. A few games against our crap conference foes isn't a sign of some major change. Get someone real and stop wasting time!!

[KingDL1]

1 hour ago, Aquila_Viridis said:

The expectation of a coach is to build the fanbase and support. That takes personality, vision and consistent winning.  Total failure. We have been wasting time. I'm really really tired of wasted time. A few games against our crap conference foes isn't a sign of some major change. Get someone real and stop wasting time!!

Amen^^

There are those that can't wait for low expectations. 

Simple fact is, if North Texas is serious about Football Seth is gone. Seth has had 6 years of mediocre to low results. He needs to be gone.

This coming year is even more important than the normal coaching turnover situation. We have the opportunity to get a new coach in here and install his system before we join the American. We need to hit the AAC hard and do well, Big 12 will be watching. 

Or we could piddle fart around, sit in a circle and rub each others backs singing kumbaya while discussing the ifs and buts  like they were candies and nuts so Seth could have a Merry Christmas. 

At same small thinking little old north Texas groups of people as they usually do; "but Seth is really really really trying hard at golf, cough, I mean football and if he just polishes that turd he created just well enough to get by, he must be the bestest thing ever. Lets keep him and give him a contract extension with a raise also." 😪 Cry me a freaking river. 

Seth did not get it done, so show him the door. 

Please Expect Better. 

[golfingomez]

3 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

Amen^^

There are those that can't wait for low expectations. 

Simple fact is, if North Texas is serious about Football Seth is gone. Seth has had 6 years of mediocre to low results. He needs to be gone.

This coming year is even more important than the normal coaching turnover situation. We have the opportunity to get a new coach in here and install his system before we join the American. We need to hit the AAC hard and do well, Big 12 will be watching. 

Or we could piddle fart around, sit in a circle and rub each others backs singing kumbaya while discussing the ifs and buts  like they were candies and nuts so Seth could have a Merry Christmas. 

At same small thinking little old north Texas groups of people as they usually do; "but Seth is really really really trying hard at golf, cough, I mean football and if he just polishes that turd he created just well enough to get by, he must be the bestest thing ever. Lets keep him and give him a contract extension with a raise also." 😪 Cry me a freaking river. 

Seth did not get it done, so show him the door. 

Please Expect Better. 

I think Seth had 3 years of good results and then 3 years of mediocre to low results. Unless you just meh'd the back to back 9 win seasons. Year 1 still might be his best job here, honestly. 

[wardly]

On 11/11/2021 at 1:50 PM, meangreen11 said:

I think he needs to win FIU and UTEP and play UTSA close.

agreed

[GreenGang45]

On 11/16/2021 at 1:33 PM, KingDL1 said:

Seth deserves nothing.

He will be gone regardless of what he wins the rest of the year.

His embarrassing losses earlier in the season sealed that fate. 

Expect better folks!

 

Seth will be back regardless 

[GRN-WHT]

23 hours ago, golfingomez said:

Unless you just meh'd the back to back 9 win seasons. Year 1 still might be his best job here, honestly. 

It's a meh for me. Obvious now he got lucky with Mason and GH. Even with them still 0-4 in games with a trophy on the line in those 3 years.

[Cr1028]

On 11/17/2021 at 11:52 AM, Rudy said:

Seriously?  If you pay more, you expect more. That's not football coach related. That's pure economics. If I pay $500 for a new fence, then I should expect a $500 fence. If I spend $7,0000, then I expect a $7,0000 fence.

Actually, we hired him to build a $725k fence. We kept giving him raises up to the current $1.35M to not build $725k fences for other people.