What would it take for you to have Seth come back?

[GrandGreen]

1 hour ago, Tom McKrackin said:

He is not doing very well in this game and I get why the fans are sharing their displeasure.  Why are you so adamant in your defense of him?

In defense of who?

[golfingomez]

6 hours ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Any talk about him winning out and winning a bowl game lies so purely in the realm of the hypothetical...we are underdogs against UTEP, we could easily be 20-point underdogs against UTSA, and any bowl eligible team would be expected to pummel us...I don't know why so many here seem to be getting worked up about it.

Utep is bowl eligible

[Andrew]

We beat FIU and come home down knock off the undefeated UTSA Roadrunners and become bowl eligible and we could consider it. We win said possible bowl game I would have to welcome him back. 

[UNTLifer]

9 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

Utep is bowl eligible

And the game went off as a pick ‘em. 

[Mean Green 93-98]

13 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

Utep is bowl eligible

I wasn't really talking about C-USA teams.  I already referred in that post to UTEP and UTSA.  I was talking about whomever we would be likely to face in the unlikely event we were to play in a bowl game.

[Mean Green Matt]

5 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I wasn't really talking about C-USA teams.  I already referred in that post to UTEP and UTSA.  I was talking about whomever we would be likely to face in the unlikely event we were to play in a bowl game.

I bet you after a 5-game win streak and knocking off a top-20 team we would be viewed as a worthy opponent. 

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

In defense of who?

Isn’t it “whom”?  That always confused me. 

[Travis]

We could win out and I wouldn’t want SL back. 

[Mean Green 93-98]

4 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

I bet you after a 5-game win streak and knocking off a top-20 team we would be viewed as a worthy opponent. 

I suppose you're right; but I was looking at everything from the viewpoint of when it was posted.  So as of the early afternoon of November 13, 2021, the Vegas odds of us winning out and winning a bowl game would have to be less than 1 in 10.

[Mean Green Matt]

25 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I suppose you're right; but I was looking at everything from the viewpoint of when it was posted.  So as of the early afternoon of November 13, 2021, the Vegas odds of us winning out and winning a bowl game would have to be less than 1 in 10.

Sure. For what it’s worth I’m 99.9% confident we end the season 5-7 and the whole thing is moot. A loss to this FIU team would be bad even by our standards. 

[TreeFiddy]

44 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

Utep is bowl eligible

Definitely a nice win against a bowl eligible team tonight.

Littrell is now something like 35-37 for his career.  I know Mitchell and Fry have a better record.  Serious question because I don't actually know, but who has a better winning percentage than Littrell by coaches that have coached more than a season?

[Cr1028]

@TreeFiddy
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_Texas_Mean_Green_head_football_coaches
 

At 35-37, Seth has a better record than every coach since Hayden Fry although Corky Nelson is pretty close.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Cr1028

[southsideguy]

Well as long as we play bad teams SL is the man.  UTEP is bowl eligible which does not mean anything in this day when they have trouble finding teams to fill spots in bowl games.

[Green P1]

No

[97and03]

On 11/14/2021 at 8:33 AM, southsideguy said:

Well as long as we play bad teams SL is the man.  UTEP is bowl eligible which does not mean anything in this day when they have trouble finding teams to fill spots in bowl games.

I agree to a point but we can’t demand that Seth beat teams with winning records then say that it doesn’t really count we he does. 

[TheColonyEagle]

On 11/13/2021 at 2:58 PM, GrandGreen said:

A serious question have you looked at the teams that NT has lost to.   I am definitely not happy with season, but wish people would wait till season end to discuss coaching change.   

Records of teams that have beat NT:

SMU  8-2

Marshall  6-3

Liberty  7-3

La Tech 2-7

Missouri  4-5 SEC

UAB  6-3

Only La Tech, I would characterize as a bad loss 

People downplay NT winning against bad teams, but seem to never look at the other side. 

Can we ever maybe beat those "good" teams? It's been 6 years. Why can't we beat at least a few of them? Shouldn't we expect to win more than 9 out of 35 of those games in 6 seasons? 

[MeanGreenTexan]

15 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

Can we ever maybe beat those "good" teams? It's been 6 years. Why can't we beat at least a few of them? Shouldn't we expect to win more than 9 out of 35 of those games in 6 seasons? 

For many folks around here who've been around for a while, this is simply too much to ask.

Nevermind that none of those games (outside of LATech & Liberty) were anywhere remotely close to being competitive...

[southsideguy]

1 hour ago, 97and03 said:

I agree to a point but we can’t demand that Seth beat teams with winning records then say that it doesn’t really count we he does. 

I stand corrected, we beat UTEP that makes everything better ...............Look at who UTEP has played.

[southsideguy]

Being honest SL is in his sixth year and have we made that big of move in the right direction for him to keep his job.  Lets say we wins out and goes 6-6.  Is that really what we strive for a 500 record.  If we think that is ok we are sliding back to the olddenton days.  I want to be excited about going to the games and instead of going as a zombie fan.  I want to go back to thinking we can beat anyone we play (within reason).

Edited November 16, 2021 by southsideguy

[97and03]

38 minutes ago, southsideguy said:

I stand corrected, we beat UTEP that makes everything better ...............Look at who UTEP has played.

Not what I or anyone said. Your sarcasm isn’t helpful. Are you going to go back and analyze the record of every team we have played. Did a loss to a 5 win team that lost to all good teams mean more than a win against a UTEP team that won the games on their schedule? How about our winning seasons? We beat a lot of weak teams. Please report back with the winning percentage of each team we played those two years.

I am a huge critic of Seth and was so even when winning bc of the inconsistent offense and the blowouts in big games. You can probably find posts of me questioning the extension.  
My point is that many here (including me) who have pointed out Seth’s shortcomings have used the W-L record against winning teams as evidence. So just be consistent or go do all the above mentioned research on every one we played for 5+ years and then present the board with your revised SL record based your evaluation of strength of schedule. 

[TheColonyEagle]

1 hour ago, southsideguy said:

I stand corrected, we beat UTEP that makes everything better ...............Look at who UTEP has played.

If there were a top 9 of Littrell's career wins against FBS teams with winning records (there aren't enough for a top 10). That UTEP team would be toward the bottom.

Below is the entire list. This is every win for Seth Littrell vs FBS winning teams in his tenure here. He had 5 of those wins in 2017. (I think that win on the road at USM that season was one of Littrell's best) They weren't world beaters, their combined records were 39-24 but winning teams none the less. Take Army (10-3) out and the combined record of the other 4 wins that season is 29-21. But credit due, Army was a 10 win team and had to be Littrell's best win here.

However it seems that 2017 was the exception and not the rule as he had 1 of those wins in 2018, 0 in 2019 and 0 in 2020. This past Saturday, UTEP was his first win against a winning FBS opponent since 2018. And as for UTEP, if they don't beat Rice Saturday, they go on the road to UAB their last game of the year. They won't be a "winning team" anymore depending on how they do in their bowl. It seems the only difference between us and UTEP is schedule timing.

As for 2017, arguably his best season, he also played some good teams and he wasn't competitive. In those games, he lost 69-31, 50-30, 54-32 (that was to 7-6 SMU) and 41-17. Those 4 blow outs were in the middle of arguably his "best" season.

The next year, 2018 the year we beat Arkansas, his schedule was much easier. And he lost to every winning team but 1 (6-5 USM, one of their wins was vs FCS) and beat every losing team except 1. (lost to 4-8 Old Dominion). Then Utah St curb stomped us 52-13 in the bowl game.

These results have happened consistently for 6 seasons.

I don't know what to think if Littrell wins next week and beats UTSA. From a UTSA point of view, if they come in here 11-0 and ranked, that game has trap written all over it. At least it would for most teams. I don't know if Littrell can pull that off.

However, even if he does, it feels like there is a large enough sample size to make a change assuming the standards are being raised here.

Edited November 16, 2021 by TheColonyEagle

[MeanGreenTexan]

12 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

If there were a top 9 of Littrell's career wins against FBS teams with winning records (there aren't enough for a top 10). That UTEP team would be toward the bottom.

Below is the entire list. This is every win for Seth Littrell vs FBS winning teams in his tenure here. He had 5 of those wins in 2017. (I think that win on the road at USM that season was one of Littrell's best) They weren't world beaters, their combined records were 39-24 but winning teams none the less. Take Army (10-3) out and the combined record of the other 4 wins that season is 29-21. But credit due, Army was a 10 win team and had to be Littrell's best win here.

However it seems that 2017 was the exception and not the rule as he had 1 of those wins in 2018, 0 in 2019 and 0 in 2020. This past Saturday, UTEP was his first win against a winning FBS opponent since 2018. And as for UTEP, if they don't beat Rice Saturday, they go on the road to UAB their last game of the year. They won't be a "winning team" anymore depending on how they do in their bowl. It seems the only difference between us and UTEP is schedule timing.

As for 2017, arguably his best season, he also played some good teams and he wasn't competitive. In those games, he lost 69-31, 50-30, 54-32 (that was to 7-6 SMU) and 41-17. Those 4 blow outs were in the middle of arguably his "best" season.

The next year, 2018 the year we beat Arkansas, his schedule was much easier. And he lost to every winning team but 1 (6-5 USM, one of their wins was vs FCS) and beat every losing team except 1. (lost to 4-8 Old Dominion). Then Utah St curb stomped us 52-13 in the bowl game.

These results have happened consistently for 6 seasons.

I don't know what to think if Littrell wins next week and beats UTSA. From a UTSA point of view, if they come in here 11-0 and ranked, that game has trap written all over it. At least it would for most teams. I don't know if Littrell can pull that off.

However, even if he does, it feels like there is a large enough sample size to make a change assuming the standards are being raised here.

First, NT has to take care of the surest win I've seen on our schedule since Littrell has been here.
Then, UTSA has to get by UAB, who no-doubt understand that if they win this weekend, they're in the drivers seat to win C-USA again.   
If UTSA wins this week, there is no way on Earth we win next week.  They'll be laser-focused.
If UAB beats UTSA, I feel like it will completely deflate them as they'll have lost everything they've worked for all year.  They'll come to Apogee with their beloved unbeaten status gone, unranked, needing a UAB loss to even win the division... just deflated.  We could catch them sleepwalking and win that game.  And I'd still demand Littrell win the bowl game before even remotely considering him coming back.

[MGNation92]

Only way he stays is if he wins out, including the bowl game. Otherwise

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, TheColonyEagle said:

If there were a top 9 of Littrell's career wins against FBS teams with winning records (there aren't enough for a top 10). That UTEP team would be toward the bottom.

Below is the entire list. This is every win for Seth Littrell vs FBS winning teams in his tenure here. He had 5 of those wins in 2017. (I think that win on the road at USM that season was one of Littrell's best) They weren't world beaters, their combined records were 39-24 but winning teams none the less. Take Army (10-3) out and the combined record of the other 4 wins that season is 29-21. But credit due, Army was a 10 win team and had to be Littrell's best win here.

However it seems that 2017 was the exception and not the rule as he had 1 of those wins in 2018, 0 in 2019 and 0 in 2020. This past Saturday, UTEP was his first win against a winning FBS opponent since 2018. And as for UTEP, if they don't beat Rice Saturday, they go on the road to UAB their last game of the year. They won't be a "winning team" anymore depending on how they do in their bowl. It seems the only difference between us and UTEP is schedule timing.

As for 2017, arguably his best season, he also played some good teams and he wasn't competitive. In those games, he lost 69-31, 50-30, 54-32 (that was to 7-6 SMU) and 41-17. Those 4 blow outs were in the middle of arguably his "best" season.

The next year, 2018 the year we beat Arkansas, his schedule was much easier. And he lost to every winning team but 1 (6-5 USM, one of their wins was vs FCS) and beat every losing team except 1. (lost to 4-8 Old Dominion). Then Utah St curb stomped us 52-13 in the bowl game.

These results have happened consistently for 6 seasons.

I don't know what to think if Littrell wins next week and beats UTSA. From a UTSA point of view, if they come in here 11-0 and ranked, that game has trap written all over it. At least it would for most teams. I don't know if Littrell can pull that off.

However, even if he does, it feels like there is a large enough sample size to make a change assuming the standards are being raised here.

How does that compare to his predecessors? Maybe ones that might’ve had 26 consecutive conference wins and 9 seasons to try and get wins against above .500 teams?

[TheColonyEagle]

12 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

How does that compare to his predecessors? Maybe ones that might’ve had 26 consecutive conference wins and 9 seasons to try and get wins against above .500 teams?

What does that have to do with North Texas Football in 2021?