As Far As I'm Concerned, Enough Has Been Said...

Coach Andy Mac · November 10, 2021

After Friday night’s Virginia Tech loss to Boston College, fellow writer Ricky LaBlue sent me a story early Saturday morning, detailing another defeat of the Hokie football team. After posting it, I texted him that maybe we should stop writing about the downward direction of the program for the rest of the season.

Why, he asked.

Because, I replied, it’s all been said. To continue to point out how Justin Fuente has lost control of the program would be like beating a dead horse. There’s an old saying in sales that says you should stop selling once you’ve made the sale. To continue talking can only end up hurting you.

I think that’s the case now with Fuente and Virginia Tech. It’s over. There’s a divorce coming and I don’t believe anyone thinks otherwise. I have in my circle of friends the most positive “the glass is half full” Hokie fans that walk this planet, and during Friday’s game I was getting texts saying “you were right, we need to make a change.”

To continue talking can only end up hurting people, including assistant coaches, players and families.

Everyone knows.

read more: https://dullesdistrict.com/index.php/categories/virginia-tech/as-far-as-i-m-concerned-enough-has-been-said

MeanGreenTexan · November 10, 2021

7 minutes ago, Coach Andy Mac said:

After Friday night’s Virginia Tech loss to Boston College, fellow writer Ricky LaBlue sent me a story early Saturday morning, detailing another defeat of the Hokie football team. After posting it, I texted him that maybe we should stop writing about the downward direction of the program for the rest of the season.

Why, he asked.

Because, I replied, it’s all been said. To continue to point out how Justin Fuente has lost control of the program would be like beating a dead horse. There’s an old saying in sales that says you should stop selling once you’ve made the sale. To continue talking can only end up hurting you.

I think that’s the case now with Fuente and Virginia Tech. It’s over. There’s a divorce coming and I don’t believe anyone thinks otherwise. I have in my circle of friends the most positive “the glass is half full” Hokie fans that walk this planet, and during Friday’s game I was getting texts saying “you were right, we need to make a change.”

To continue talking can only end up hurting people, including assistant coaches, players and families.

Everyone knows.

read more: https://dullesdistrict.com/index.php/categories/virginia-tech/as-far-as-i-m-concerned-enough-has-been-said

You mean VATech doesn't have fans who swear "5 is the magic number for Fuente to return" (heck, some here are saying 4!)??? Or, whatever it was golfingomez was saying just yesterday??

MGNation92 · November 10, 2021

17 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You mean VATech doesn't have fans who swear "5 is the magic number for Fuente to return" (heck, some here are saying 4!)??? Or, whatever it was golfingomez was saying just yesterday??

All that matters is that we had fun

golfingomez · November 10, 2021

6 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You mean VATech doesn't have fans who swear "5 is the magic number for Fuente to return" (heck, some here are saying 4!)??? Or, whatever it was golfingomez was saying just yesterday??

Who knows, but you are right, a program that had not had a losing season since 1992 is now faced with Fuente delivering potentially three in four years. This despite the fact that he is getting paid roughly 2.5 times what Seth is.

Sounds exactly the same as our situation. I can't believe Seth came in and screwed up all the momentum we had built up under Dickey/Dodge/McCarney. He has just run this program into the ground.

Mean Green Matt · November 10, 2021

Gotta be honest. I don’t get the “Fuente is doing so bad at Virginia Tech he’s going to get fired so we can hire him” excitement.

NTSU52 · November 10, 2021

21 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

Who knows, but you are right, a program that had not had a losing season since 1992 is now faced with Fuente delivering potentially three in four years. This despite the fact that he is getting paid roughly 2.5 times what Seth is.

Sounds exactly the same as our situation. I can't believe Seth came in and screwed up all the momentum we had built up under Dickey/Dodge/McCarney. He has just run this program into the ground.

Dodge and McCarney built up momentum?

Edited November 10, 2021 by NTSU52

El Paso Eagle · November 10, 2021

1 minute ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Gotta be honest. I don’t get the “Fuente is doing so bad at Virginia Tech he’s going to get fired so we can hire him” excitement.

Not many fanbases wish for a coach to lose so he can get fired so hopefully we can hire him

MeanGreenTexan · November 10, 2021

13 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

Who knows, but you are right, a program that had not had a losing season since 1992 is now faced with Fuente delivering potentially three in four years. This despite the fact that he is getting paid roughly 2.5 times what Seth is.

Sounds exactly the same as our situation. I can't believe Seth came in and screwed up all the momentum we had built up under Dickey/Dodge/McCarney. He has just run this program into the ground.

Littrell came in and replaced the coach who is responsible for the worst FBS-to-FCS loss in NCAA history. This cannot be the benchmark. Littrell created his own momentum, then crashed his own momentum. You were saying you want (or "wouldn't mind") Littrell back next season just yesterday. I cannot comprehend that.

Again:
Sonny Dykes is a prime example:
3 Seasons at G5 LATech - 22-15 with a WAC championship. ("Oh Wow! Sonny is a winner! A G5 program-builder! He's gonna get a shot at a P5!")
4 Seasons at P5 Cal - 19-30 ("Oh no! He sucks! His time at LATech was a mirage! No one should ever hire him as a HC again!")
4 Seasons at G5 SMU - 28-16 ("TCU, TXTech, etc... should hire Sonny! Look at what he's done at SMU!")

And again, as a reference, Fuente has a WINNING RECORD at VATech. Not Sonny's 19-30 record.

I dunno about you, but I'd take 28-16 with several top 25 rankings peppered-in over a 4-year stretch!
IMO, I don't think there's a reason Fuente couldn't re-create the Memphis magic here in Denton.

Mean Green Matt · November 10, 2021

3 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Littrell came in and replaced the coach who is responsible for the worst FBS-to-FCS loss in NCAA history. This cannot be the benchmark. Littrell created his own momentum, then crashed his own momentum. You were saying you want (or "wouldn't mind") Littrell back next season just yesterday. I cannot comprehend that.

Again:
Sonny Dykes is a prime example:
3 Seasons at G5 LATech - 22-15 with a WAC championship. ("Oh Wow! Sonny is a winner! A G5 program-builder! He's gonna get a shot at a P5!")
4 Seasons at P5 Cal - 19-30 ("Oh no! He sucks! His time at LATech was a mirage! No one should ever hire him as a HC again!")
4 Seasons at G5 SMU - 28-16 ("TCU, TXTech, etc... should hire Sonny! Look at what he's done at SMU!")

And again, as a reference, Fuente has a WINNING RECORD at VATech. Not Sonny's 19-30 record.

I dunno about you, but I'd take 28-16 with several top 25 rankings peppered-in over a 4-year stretch!
IMO, I don't think there's a reason Fuente couldn't re-create the Memphis magic here in Denton.

Fair points. But I’d rather have a Grant Mccasland type that had been successful throughout multiple stops at different levels. But I’m an idealist.

MeanGreenTexan · November 10, 2021

14 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Gotta be honest. I don’t get the “Fuente is doing so bad at Virginia Tech he’s going to get fired so we can hire him” excitement.

The excitement is not about the fall of VATech over the past 2 seasons. The excitement is about what Fuente built at a G5 (you know, like UNT!) prior to that stretch.

Memphis = UNT
VATech =/= UNT

El Paso Eagle · November 10, 2021

1 minute ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Fair points. But I’d rather have a Grant Mccasland type that had been successful throughout multiple stops at different levels. But I’m an idealist.

Colby Carthel from SFA

Mean Green Matt · November 10, 2021

1 minute ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Colby Carthel from SFA

My only concern with Carthel is has he actually proven yet that he’s successful at SFA.

El Paso Eagle · November 10, 2021

16 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

My only concern with Carthel is has he actually proven yet that he’s successful at SFA.

He has taken over a bad program and have them on the verge of a top 25 FCS ranking. Two of their 3 loses are to Texas Tech by 6 and SHSU by 1, the other loss to Jacksonville state by 4. Might not be exciting to some but he has BUILT (key word) winner where he has coached

97and03 · November 10, 2021

5 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Fair points. But I’d rather have a Grant Mccasland type that had been successful throughout multiple stops at different levels. But I’m an idealist.

3 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Colby Carthel from SFA

1 minute ago, Mean Green Matt said:

My only concern with Carthel is has he actually proven yet that he’s successful at SFA.

McCasland was still a risk. He was not a proven D1 coach - not even close. But we are talking about a huge difference in money between basketball and football. Carthell isn’t even established at FCS. Hard pass.
Stop thinking small time. We can afford to bring in a proven coach.

MeanGreenTexan · November 10, 2021

1 minute ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Fair points. But I’d rather have a Grant Mccasland type that had been successful throughout multiple stops at different levels. But I’m an idealist.

I don't think many of us saw McCasland coming. He just started at ARSt, had a good thing going, and had a buyout that we didn't think NT could cover!
Wren made it happen.
Who knows? Maybe there's a G5 coach out there that has the same pedigree as McCasland that none of us are thinking of, but Wren is?

Another coach I think Fuente would compare favorably to (probably moreso than Dykes due to the P5 winning record):
Jim McElwain:
3 Seasons at COSt - 22-15
3 Seasons at FL - 22-12
3 Seasons at CentMI - 16-13 (looks like Covid year jacked them up playing in front of an empty home stadium, and this year's 5-4 record is due to not one, but 2 money games VS LSU & Mizzou). I think it's safe to say UNT puts more into our program than CentMI does ($27.9mil budget compared to our $40mil budget).

UNT Texas Hooligan · November 10, 2021

15 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Littrell came in and replaced the coach who is responsible for the worst FBS-to-FCS loss in NCAA history. This cannot be the benchmark. Littrell created his own momentum, then crashed his own momentum. You were saying you want (or "wouldn't mind") Littrell back next season just yesterday. I cannot comprehend that.

Again:
Sonny Dykes is a prime example:
3 Seasons at G5 LATech - 22-15 with a WAC championship. ("Oh Wow! Sonny is a winner! A G5 program-builder! He's gonna get a shot at a P5!")
4 Seasons at P5 Cal - 19-30 ("Oh no! He sucks! His time at LATech was a mirage! No one should ever hire him as a HC again!")
4 Seasons at G5 SMU - 28-16 ("TCU, TXTech, etc... should hire Sonny! Look at what he's done at SMU!")

And again, as a reference, Fuente has a WINNING RECORD at VATech. Not Sonny's 19-30 record.

I dunno about you, but I'd take 28-16 with several top 25 rankings peppered-in over a 4-year stretch!
IMO, I don't think there's a reason Fuente couldn't re-create the Memphis magic here in Denton.

Honestly feels like rocket science trying to explain this over and over again as well as why giving Littrell so much slack now is such a big mistake with recent results.

UNTLifer · November 10, 2021

16 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Colby Carthel from SFA

or Keeler from SHSU.

97and03 · November 10, 2021

5 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I don't think many of us saw McCasland coming. He just started at ARSt, had a good thing going, and had a buyout that we didn't think NT could cover!
Wren made it happen.
Who knows? Maybe there's a G5 coach out there that has the same pedigree as McCasland that none of us are thinking of, but Wren is?

Another coach I think Fuente would compare favorably to (probably moreso than Dykes due to the P5 winning record):
Jim McElwain:
3 Seasons at COSt - 22-15
3 Seasons at FL - 22-12
3 Seasons at CentMI - 16-13 (looks like Covid year jacked them up playing in front of an empty home stadium, and this year's 5-4 record is due to not one, but 2 money games VS LSU & Mizzou). I think it's safe to say UNT puts more into our program than CentMI does ($27.9mil budget compared to our $40mil budget).

Really good point. Any idea on current salary?

Tom McKrackin · November 10, 2021

Seems to me there are sure things but they are out of our price range. Take Billy Napier for instance. That guy is destined for greatness whereever he goes. He has passed on better jobs than ours. How did ULL find Napier? What was his background before taking that job? I wish there was some scientific way to do this hiring thing. It seems to go by what is the status quo hiring at the time. Back when Seth was hired it was going with the young air raid offensive coordinator. Now it seems to be the Traylor McGuire high school coach that can recruit his ass off.

UNT Texas Hooligan · November 10, 2021

5 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

Really good point. Any idea on current salary?

$840,000 according to this latest article.

https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/college/2021/10/15/toledo-coach-candle-still-comfortably-highest-paid-coach-in-the-mac/stories/20211014093

He was also getting paid 3 years after getting fired from Florida by Florida due to his buyout.

SilverEagle · November 10, 2021

10 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

McCasland was still a risk. He was not a proven D1 coach - not even close. But we are talking about a huge difference in money between basketball and football. Carthell isn’t even established at FCS. Hard pass.
Stop thinking small time. We can afford to bring in a proven coach.

Dennis Franchione was (by your definition) small time when he coached at Pittsburg St. (D-2), then went on to Tx St (1-AA at the time) when New Mexico saw his ability as a head coach and then TCU noticed it too.

Now, for all you concrete/literal thinkers out there I AM NOT suggesting that we try to lure Dennis Franchione out of retirement. What I am doing is suggesting that Carthal might be the next Dennis Franchione on his way up. We should stop being dismissive of him. My God! when did we get so full of ourselves.

MeanGreenTexan · November 10, 2021

6 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

Dennis Franchione was (by your definition) small time when he coached at Pittsburg St. (D-2), then went on to Tx St (1-AA at the time) when New Mexico saw his ability as a head coach and then TCU noticed it too.

Now, for all you concrete/literal thinkers out there I AM NOT suggesting that we try to lure Dennis Franchione out of retirement. What I am doing is suggesting that Carthal might be the next Dennis Franchione on his way up. We should stop being dismissive of him. My God! when did we get so full of ourselves.

Let TXSt. hire Carthel to cut his chops in the SBC then. I think Carthel/Keeler are small-time, small-budget thinking. Wren/Neal have put NT in a position to look past those kinds of guys. If this were still Gretchen/RV's department, those guys would probably be really high up my list. Of course, we'd still be in C-USA with LATech and UTEP though.

Edited November 10, 2021 by MeanGreenTexan

Cr1028 · November 10, 2021

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Let TXSt. hire Carthel to cut his chops in the SBC then. I think Carthel/Keeler are small-time, small-budget thinking. Wren/Neal have put NT in a position to look past those kinds of guys. If this were still Gretchen/RV's department, those guys would probably be really high up my list.

Better to catch a falling star than a shooting one, right?

Then we can wave as Carthel does his ascension while we decide whether to keep or fire our guy that used to be good somewhere a decade ago.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Cr1028

Cr1028 · November 10, 2021

1 hour ago, golfingomez said:

Who knows, but you are right, a program that had not had a losing season since 1992 is now faced with Fuente delivering potentially three in four years. This despite the fact that he is getting paid roughly 2.5 times what Seth is.

Sounds exactly the same as our situation. I can't believe Seth came in and screwed up all the momentum we had built up under Dickey/Dodge/McCarney. He has just run this program into the ground.

54 minutes ago, NTSU52 said:

Dodge and McCarney built up momentum?

MeanGreenTexan · November 10, 2021

2 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Better to catch a falling star than a shooting one, right?

Then we can wave as Carthel does his ascension while we decide whether to keep or fire our guy that used to be good somewhere a decade ago.

Or, Carthel sucks at TXSt, or whatever other FBS school gives him a shot, and gets canned, while Fuente recaptures his mojo he had at Memphis? Could this happen? ...A decade ago?