What a weird season

NT93 · November 9, 2021

The whole coaching issue has made for a very weird season. The last couple of games, instead of being happy with the win, I’m almost disappointed because I’m afraid that it could mean we have the same coach next year.

I’ve said all along that it’s how we win or lose that should dictate a coaching change and I think the way we have lost most games (and the way we’ve won some) leaves no doubt. I’m beginning to fear that I was wrong and that 5 wins will ensure the return of SL regardless.

greenminer · November 9, 2021

Shades of 2001 Dickey. I wonder how many people felt weird after we beat MTSU in in Sun Belt game 2? (Game 1 = LaMo)

UNT Texas Hooligan · November 9, 2021

1 hour ago, NT93 said:

The whole coaching issue has made for a very weird season. The last couple of games, instead of being happy with the win, I’m almost disappointed because I’m afraid that it could mean we have the same coach next year.

I’ve said all along that it’s how we win or lose that should dictate a coaching change and I think the way we have lost most games (and the way we’ve won some) leaves no doubt. I’m beginning to fear that I was wrong and that 5 wins will ensure the return of SL regardless.

I'm right there with you. Always want us to win but worry that wins will give the perception that SL deserves more time.

Worse yet, I worry that wins against bottom of the barrel like Southern Miss and Rice will completely overshadow blowouts like UAB and Marshall that I feel were much more indicative of where this team really is than an OT win over a bad Rice team with a backup QB.

I really hope leadership takes all of this into consideration but I keep hearing 5 or 6 wins and he will be back and it honestly frustrates me that this is even a possibility. Really tough place to be as a fan.

Edited November 9, 2021 by UNT Texas Hooligan

Jonnyeagle · November 9, 2021

If Seth wins out and wins the bowl game he’s back period. I think we need to come tp grips with this. We would be a laughing stock for firing a coach that won a bowl.

also there are so many openings this season that we won’t get good value for our money. Better to push this to next season. Will also allow us to complete the athletic center renovation.

NT93 · November 9, 2021

1 hour ago, Jonnyeagle said:

If Seth wins out and wins the bowl game he’s back period. I think we need to come tp grips with this. We would be a laughing stock for firing a coach that won a bowl.

also there are so many openings this season that we won’t get good value for our money. Better to push this to next season. Will also allow us to complete the athletic center renovation.

If we win out I will most likely change my mind because that would indicate that something has changed. I’m talking about bringing him back just because we beat UTEP and FIU. That’s two totally different scenarios.

MeanGreenTexan · November 9, 2021

7 minutes ago, NT93 said:

If we win out I will most likely change my mind because that would indicate that something has changed. I’m talking about bringing him back just because we beat UTEP and FIU. That’s two totally different scenarios.

Y'all,
Baker is waiting for the end of the season to pull the trigger. There is only 1 scenario that would cause him to even pause:
On the off chance UNT somehow beats UTEP, UTSA, and wins the bowl game, it's going to make Baker's job very very hard. Littrell would probably be back for 1 more agonizing season in that extremely unlikely scenario.

Any other scenario that sees NT with less than 7 wins and the change will be made.

Unfortunately, we're seeing guys like McGuire get picked off, and guys like Stout leave, while we fart around playing 'wait-and-see' with these false "bowl hopes".
It's frustrating, and hurting the program. But Baker must feel like cutting Littrell loose prior to season's end would hurt the program even more. I don't see how, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Stop fretting over a 4-win, 5-win, or even 6-win Littrell returning. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

MeanGreen22 · November 9, 2021

14 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Y'all,
Baker is waiting for the end of the season to pull the trigger. There is only 1 scenario that would cause him to even pause:
On the off chance UNT somehow beats UTEP, UTSA, and wins the bowl game, it's going to make Baker's job very very hard. Littrell would probably be back for 1 more agonizing season in that extremely unlikely scenario.

Any other scenario that sees NT with less than 7 wins and the change will be made.

Unfortunately, we're seeing guys like McGuire get picked off, and guys like Stout leave, while we fart around playing 'wait-and-see' with these false "bowl hopes".
It's frustrating, and hurting the program. But Baker must feel like cutting Littrell loose prior to season's end would hurt the program even more. I don't see how, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Stop fretting over a 4-win, 5-win, or even 6-win Littrell returning. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

I don’t think it’s necessarily hurting us keeping Seth around. If a player wants to leave mid season, he’s probably gone regardless. As far as coaches going off the board, I feel very confident that if someone Wren wants is available and close to taking another job, things would get put in motion.

Edited November 9, 2021 by MeanGreen22

MGNation92 · November 9, 2021

24 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Y'all,
Baker is waiting for the end of the season to pull the trigger. There is only 1 scenario that would cause him to even pause:
On the off chance UNT somehow beats UTEP, UTSA, and wins the bowl game, it's going to make Baker's job very very hard. Littrell would probably be back for 1 more agonizing season in that extremely unlikely scenario.

Any other scenario that sees NT with less than 7 wins and the change will be made.

Unfortunately, we're seeing guys like McGuire get picked off, and guys like Stout leave, while we fart around playing 'wait-and-see' with these false "bowl hopes".
It's frustrating, and hurting the program. But Baker must feel like cutting Littrell loose prior to season's end would hurt the program even more. I don't see how, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Stop fretting over a 4-win, 5-win, or even 6-win Littrell returning. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

He's saving money. That's the only reason he's waiting

Mean Green Matt · November 9, 2021

I mean, if Seth wins out to go 7-6 he kind of deserves the extra year, right? Don’t go extending his contract or anything. But it would be our first win over a ranked team in almost 50 years.

MeanGreenTexan · November 9, 2021

22 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

I mean, if Seth wins out to go 7-6 he kind of deserves the extra year, right? Don’t go extending his contract or anything. But it would be our first win over a ranked team in almost 50 years.

Yes. That includes beating a ranked UTSA, spoiling their perfect season, and winning a bowl game. Littrell would have coached his rear off & got every player to buy-in in order to make that happen & would probably be back.

Also, if I win the lottery, don't worry about the Athletic Center expansion. It will be called the 'MeanGreenTexan Athletic Center', and it will be amazing!

southsideguy · November 9, 2021

I see one problem with these thoughts, you are assuming we have a qb who can throw a forward pass. No way we win out, I think at best we get one more win but I am still not convinced SL won't be back.

Monkeypox · November 9, 2021

Yeah, I'm not real concerned about SL winning out. We have teams with winning records remaining on the schedule.

UTSA is going to do us a favor for once, if UTEP doesn't do it first.

So in theory, I'd have to tip my hat to the magical coaching it would take to do so, especially given our QB/WR situation.... but it ain't happening.

golfingomez · November 9, 2021

3 hours ago, Jonnyeagle said:

If Seth wins out and wins the bowl game he’s back period. I think we need to come tp grips with this. We would be a laughing stock for firing a coach that won a bowl.

also there are so many openings this season that we won’t get good value for our money. Better to push this to next season. Will also allow us to complete the athletic center renovation.

i don't understand this logic, of the coaches that have been hired, how many of them are passing up their current jobs for UNT? Additionally, there are not a finite # of coaches that can lead our program, there are a lot of guys that could come in and do a good job.

I know everybody hates this opinion, but i'm tired of the revolving door of coaches around here. I don't mind sticking with Seth one more year to see if he has anything. I think the transfer portal is going to play out pretty frequently every year, regardless of who the coach is. I am firmly in the camp that if Seth can win two more games this year, then he gets next year. Most people on this board had us going 5-7 best case scenario, so i don't see how this should have changed their opinion. If he can't get us a real QB by next year, then i am fine to let him go. If we had competent QB play this year, we would be 6-3 right now, most likely

Udomann · November 9, 2021

Seth has never won a bowl game, or really even been competitive in one. And with this years team, I don't see it happening.

Seth also doesn't do well against teams with winning records, of which we have 2 coming up.

IF these things happen, and these are super far-fetched goals for SL, then just maybe he's found something. Or the team has discovered themselves. I'm ok with this, as long as he doesn't get back to old Coach Mumbles next year.

I'm not ready to declare ourselves world beaters after Rice and USM. There's probably more than a few FCS schools who could manage that. I do enjoy riding a high after a pair of wins, but man I'm still reeling from the first half of the seasons beatdowns

Mean Green 93-98 · November 9, 2021

11 hours ago, greenminer said:

Shades of 2001 Dickey. I wonder how many people felt weird after we beat MTSU in in Sun Belt game 2? (Game 1 = LaMo)

I very much wanted Dickey canned at that time, and had for a while. I had mixed feelings initially when he started winning in that crappy conference, but I do generally prefer winning games to losing them.

Mean Green 93-98 · November 9, 2021

10 minutes ago, Udomann said:

Seth has never won a bowl game, or really even been competitive in one.

His first bowl game went into overtime. Not sure why that wouldn't qualify as competitive.

CaribbeanGreen · November 9, 2021

17 minutes ago, Udomann said:

Seth has never won a bowl game, or really even been competitive in one.

We went to OT in the HoD bowl with a backup QB. Pretty darn competitive.

UNTLifer · November 9, 2021

57 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

I don't mind sticking with Seth one more year to see if he has anything.

So the previous 5 years and this year weren't enough time to make this evaluation?

I was a Littrell backer for years, but this year has changed my mind.

Transfer Portal: Jace Ruder. This young man was a 4 star recruit coming out of high school with offers from UNC, Tulsa, Baylor, Bowling Green, CO St., Emporia State, FL ST., Georgia, IU, Iowa, K-State, Ohio, Ole Miss, Penn St., Syracuse, Toledo and Wyoming.

That offer list tells me this young man had/has talent. I watched as SL totally screwed up the QB position by mishandling the QB room. Aune performed at a serviceable level last year, spent the summer/off-season working with our WR's and then was bumped from the starting job when Ruder arrived which had to shoot a hole in his confidence. Ruder, being in our system for only the fall practices, was rushed into the starting spot. His poor performance led to his benching which ruined his confidence as well.

There was a recent article on how the traffic and slowed to a crawl at the JUCO's because coaches are now focusing on the TP. If I were a G5, I would be all over the JUCO's.

rcade · November 9, 2021

8 hours ago, Jonnyeagle said:

If Seth wins out and wins the bowl game he’s back period. I think we need to come tp grips with this.

Barkeep, I'll have what he's having.

Winning out and knocking UTSA off their cloud would be glorious.

El Paso Eagle · November 9, 2021

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

So the previous 5 years and this year weren't enough time to make this evaluation?

I was a Littrell backer for years, but this year has changed my mind.

Transfer Portal: Jace Ruder. This young man was a 4 star recruit coming out of high school with offers from UNC, Tulsa, Baylor, Bowling Green, CO St., Emporia State, FL ST., Georgia, IU, Iowa, K-State, Ohio, Ole Miss, Penn St., Syracuse, Toledo and Wyoming.

That offer list tells me this young man had/has talent. I watched as SL totally screwed up the QB position by mishandling the QB room. Aune performed at a serviceable level last year, spent the summer/off-season working with our WR's and then was bumped from the starting job when Ruder arrived which had to shoot a hole in his confidence. Ruder, being in our system for only the fall practices, was rushed into the starting spot. His poor performance led to his benching which ruined his confidence as well.

There was a recent article on how the traffic and slowed to a crawl at the JUCO's because coaches are now focusing on the TP. If I were a G5, I would be all over the JUCO's.

Udomann · November 9, 2021

5 hours ago, CaribbeanGreen said:

We went to OT in the HoD bowl with a backup QB. Pretty darn competitive.

Man, now you guys expect me to remember 5 years into the past? I can barely remember to wear underpants again after quarantine.

But yeah, I overlooked (forgot) that. Point still stands though, beyond that it's been a bunch of swings and misses for Coach Mumbles on most of our big games.

El Paso Eagle · November 9, 2021

1 hour ago, Udomann said:

Man, now you guys expect me to remember 5 years into the past? I can barely remember to wear underpants again after quarantine.

But yeah, I overlooked (forgot) that. Point still stands though, beyond that it's been a bunch of swings and misses for Coach Mumbles on most of our big games.

Better question - Is the best we have "well 5 years ago we almost won"?

Side.Show.Joe · November 10, 2021

9 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Y'all,
Baker is waiting for the end of the season to pull the trigger. There is only 1 scenario that would cause him to even pause:
On the off chance UNT somehow beats UTEP, UTSA, and wins the bowl game, it's going to make Baker's job very very hard. Littrell would probably be back for 1 more agonizing season in that extremely unlikely scenario.

Any other scenario that sees NT with less than 7 wins and the change will be made.

Unfortunately, we're seeing guys like McGuire get picked off, and guys like Stout leave, while we fart around playing 'wait-and-see' with these false "bowl hopes".
It's frustrating, and hurting the program. But Baker must feel like cutting Littrell loose prior to season's end would hurt the program even more. I don't see how, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Stop fretting over a 4-win, 5-win, or even 6-win Littrell returning. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

I agree.

9 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Yes. That includes beating a ranked UTSA, spoiling their perfect season, and winning a bowl game. Littrell would have coached his rear off & got every player to buy-in in order to make that happen & would probably be back.

Also, if I win the lottery, don't worry about the Athletic Center expansion. It will be called the 'MeanGreenTexan Athletic Center', and it will be amazing!

And since Seth hasn't beaten a team that finished their season with a winning record since USM in November of 2018 (3 years ago), you are probably more likely to win the lottery. :boom:

Edited November 10, 2021 by Side.Show.Joe

greenminer · November 10, 2021

1 hour ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

(3 years ago), you are probably more likely to win the lottery.

I can win the lottery every 2-3 years?

golfingomez · November 10, 2021

6 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

So the previous 5 years and this year weren't enough time to make this evaluation?

I was a Littrell backer for years, but this year has changed my mind.

Transfer Portal: Jace Ruder. This young man was a 4 star recruit coming out of high school with offers from UNC, Tulsa, Baylor, Bowling Green, CO St., Emporia State, FL ST., Georgia, IU, Iowa, K-State, Ohio, Ole Miss, Penn St., Syracuse, Toledo and Wyoming.

That offer list tells me this young man had/has talent. I watched as SL totally screwed up the QB position by mishandling the QB room. Aune performed at a serviceable level last year, spent the summer/off-season working with our WR's and then was bumped from the starting job when Ruder arrived which had to shoot a hole in his confidence. Ruder, being in our system for only the fall practices, was rushed into the starting spot. His poor performance led to his benching which ruined his confidence as well.

There was a recent article on how the traffic and slowed to a crawl at the JUCO's because coaches are now focusing on the TP. If I were a G5, I would be all over the JUCO's.

the previous 5 years definitely played into my thoughts, and with that is factored in his overall performance. the man's record stands at 34-37 and like it or not, the barometer is always set by what has come before. if he wins two out of the 3 remaining games, he will be at 36-38, with a solid team returning next year. This is not a case of a head coach simply not wanting to recruit (McCarney, who's last two years in Denton unraveled unbelievably fast), a coach who is couldn't win a game unless he was playing Western Kentucky( It took Dodge 43 games to get to 37 losses, which still baffles me) or a coach who has positioned himself and his team against the school/university (Dickey, who went 5-18 with his hijinx against UNT).

This is also not a team where we think we are positioned to be world beaters next year and just need a change in voice to get us there, this can be a good team(8-9 wins), but i don't think we could go undefeated, unless there is a miracle of some kind.

I know we aren't going to agree on this issue, but I like Seth and I hope he continues to improve our program, I still think he is trying.