Cold Hard Truth

[TheReal_jayD]

This team is a good Quarterback away from being conference contenders. This roster has talent. And has proven that we are extremely deep at both running back and WR. When Seth was hired we had arguably the worst roster top to bottom in college football. I had numerous coaches, analyst and players tell me that we didn’t even have a full division one roster. We are in MUCH better spot now. Whoever the coach is next year it will not be a complete rebuild. If they can address the QB position we should be able to hit the ground running next season. I don’t ever like to dog players. But the answer to our QB room is currently not on roster. 

[Cr1028]

9 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

This team is a good Quarterback away from being conference contenders. This roster has talent. And has proven that we are extremely deep at both running back and WR. When Seth was hired we had arguably the worst roster top to bottom in college football. I had numerous coaches, analyst and players tell me that we didn’t even have a full division one roster. We are in MUCH better spot now. Whoever the coach is next year it will not be a complete rebuild. If they can address the QB position we should be able to hit the ground running next season. I don’t ever like to dog players. But the answer to our QB room is currently not on roster. 

What if Graham Harrell and Bryce Drummond could be that answer with Seth retained? Just hypothetically.

[TheReal_jayD]

Just now, Cr1028 said:

What if Graham Harrell and Bryce Drummond could be that answer with Seth retained? Just hypothetically.

I don’t get the Drummond love? No offense to the kid. He is barely getting practice squad reps. I’m not saying he won’t be good in a couple years… but if he can’t work his way up this shit of a thing we call QB depth chart he ain’t the answer next season. Harrell and Seth lucked into mason fine. Their top target was Nick Starkel. That didn’t work out so they took chance on the Oklahoma kid. 

[El Paso Eagle]

10 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

This team is a good Quarterback away from being conference contenders. This roster has talent. And has proven that we are extremely deep at both running back and WR. When Seth was hired we had arguably the worst roster top to bottom in college football. I had numerous coaches, analyst and players tell me that we didn’t even have a full division one roster. We are in MUCH better spot now. Whoever the coach is next year it will not be a complete rebuild. If they can address the QB position we should be able to hit the ground running next season. I don’t ever like to dog players. But the answer to our QB room is currently not on roster. 

I hope your right. But for the 3rd year in a row its one "reason" after another. I believe your right about the talent and this should only help to make this job more attractive to a new coach. We can't complain about the lack of alumni support and question why so many support other schools if we keep trying to find ways to justify poor results. 

[ttunt1970]

JD could enlighten us about the problem with K Martin what is the thoughts on him?

[Cr1028]

5 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

I don’t get the Drummond love? No offense to the kid. He is barely getting practice squad reps. I’m not saying he won’t be good in a couple years… but if he can’t work his way up this shit of a thing we call QB depth chart he ain’t the answer next season. Harrell and Seth lucked into mason fine. Their top target was Nick Starkel. That didn’t work out so they took chance on the Oklahoma kid. 

I only mentioned Drummond because he was mentored in high school by Fine and Harrell was Fine’s mentor so I pondered the “what if” they could catch lightning in a bottle twice.

Outside of what I said above, I know nothing about Pioneer Woman Jr so please don’t construe my comments as love for him. I was just making a hypothetical of if you thought we could have a Mason Fine 2.0.

[TheReal_jayD]

27 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

I hope your right. But for the 3rd year in a row its one "reason" after another. I believe your right about the talent and this should only help to make this job more attractive to a new coach. We can't complain about the lack of alumni support and question why so many support other schools if we keep trying to find ways to justify poor results. 

Definitely not trying to justify poor results. Just saying we aren’t far off.

[El Paso Eagle]

2 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Definitely not trying to justify poor results. Just saying we aren’t far off.

I think that is part of what makes this so frustrating. Just seems like there is always something that seems to keep Seth form putting a good team on the field for a 3rd straight year.

[TheReal_jayD]

20 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

I think that is part of what makes this so frustrating. Just seems like there is always something that seems to keep Seth form putting a good team on the field for a 3rd straight year.

Well I can guarantee you I don’t think he will have opportunity to make it 4

[BillySee58]

Truthfully if he could just be Senior-year Derek Thompson level I think that would be good enough if the roster keeps improving at the rate they are and if they don’t have to keep running down to their 3rd string receivers. And he has been about what Derek Thompson was before his senior year. 

But yeah, the roster is close. Prioritize getting a good QB this offseason, keep developing the roster, and worst case I think you have a bus driver you can win games with. Best case you have a starter who can take you to the next level and a backup who has a lot of experience.

[Side.Show.Joe]

I agree that we have talent at a lot of positions. But I think we have a few other spots that need more talent. The QB position is certainly our weakest link, and Littrell should have to answer for it. He has brought in QBs in every class. When he was hired he actually made a point of addressing the QB position. The fact that he hasn't developed a QB since Mason Fine is an indictment against his leadership as our head coach.

But, I also think we're still weak on our o-line. Yes, we have about 3 solid starters that will probably be all-conference before they graduate, but there are probably two spots that need to be upgraded. And the depth is still an issue. I think we need more depth in our defensive front too. Games are won and lost at the line of scrimmage. Those positions should always remain a priority.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Side.Show.Joe

[outoftown]

13 hours ago, TheReal_jayD said:

I don’t get the Drummond love? No offense to the kid. He is barely getting practice squad reps. I’m not saying he won’t be good in a couple years… but if he can’t work his way up this shit of a thing we call QB depth chart he ain’t the answer next season. Harrell and Seth lucked into mason fine. Their top target was Nick Starkel. That didn’t work out so they took chance on the Oklahoma kid. 

That attitude sadly does not work anymore, and i am afraid that SL has somehow failed to adapt to this. A few years ago you could have stashed him away and waited to develop him. Now, folks like Drummond often simply transfer when they see there is no fair shot of starting. And why would any QB on the roster  other than Ruder and Aune think they had a fair shot this season? If you don't get reps and playing time in a season where the first and second string are objectively and proven to be bottom 25 in FBS QB starters, then that shows you are not getting a fair shot.  QBs are the most likely to leave because of that. SL needs to realize this and adapt. However he plays Aune about as stubbornly as he played MF even in games where he was up 30 points.

Edited November 7, 2021 by outoftown

[rws69]

3 hours ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

I agree that we have talent at a lot of positions. But I think we have a few other spots that need more talent. The QB position is certainly our weakest link, and Littrell should have to answer for it. He has brought in QBs in every class. When he was hired he actually made a point of addressing the QB position. The fact that he hasn't developed a QB since Mason Fine is an indictment against his leadership as our head coach.

But, I also think we're still weak on our o-line. Yes, we have about 3 solid starters that will probably be all-conference before they graduate, but there are probably two spots that need to be upgraded. And the depth is still an issue. I think we need more depth in our defensive front too. Games are won and lost at the line of scrimmage. Those positions should always remain a priority.

And at tight end, Jason Pirtle is a senior. We have Jake Roberts, but need to see more from the others on the roster.

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, outoftown said:

If I you don't get reps and playing time in a season where the first and second string are objectively and proven to be bottom 25 in FBS QB starters, then that shows you are not getting a fair shot.  

Those poor backups at Clemson, Indiana, Wisconsin, Iowa,  etc. Poor babies, life just isn’t fair to them and they don’t get their “fair shot” because the coaches are just plain mean.

[emmitt01]

5 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Those poor backups at Clemson, Indiana, Wisconsin, Iowa,  etc. Poor babies, life just isn’t fair to them and they don’t get their “fair shot” because the coaches are just plain mean.

The starting quarterbacks at those schools are horrible too?  

[outoftown]

12 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

Those poor backups at Clemson, Indiana, Wisconsin, Iowa,  etc. Poor babies, life just isn’t fair to them and they don’t get their “fair shot” because the coaches are just plain mean.

You can feel however you want about it, but look around and you will find lots of QBs that transfered out in the last 5 years in order to try to start somewhere else. The changed rules will only further accelerate this. As a HC that means you need to do a much better job managing play time for your underclassmens and expectations. If you don't manage that, you may as well stop recruiting high school quarterbacks. And actions (for example having to sit even if the starter keeps playing sub par) speak louder than any words to players in this regard, be cause players aren't stupid). Places like Ohio State, Alabama and Clemson DID have very good QBs transfer out because of playing time concerns. But it was mostly not G5s that profited.

Edited November 7, 2021 by outoftown

[CaribbeanGreen]

In his time here, Fine threw to 3 NFL WRs and handed the ball to a NFL RB. We all love the guy, rightfully so, but that's a hell of a part to make a QB better, and we don't have that right now. 

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, emmitt01 said:

The starting quarterbacks at those schools are horrible too?  

On the list he is referring to, yes.

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Cr1028

[Cr1028]

18 minutes ago, outoftown said:

You can feel however you want about it, but look around and you will find lots of QBs that transfered out in the last 5 years in order to try to start somewhere else. The changed rules will only further accelerate this. As a HC that means you need to do a much better job managing play time for your underclassmens and expectations. If you don't manage that, you may as well stop recruiting high school quarterbacks. And actions (for example having to sit even if the starter keeps playing sub par) speak louder than any words to players in this regard, be cause players aren't stupid). Places like Ohio State, Alabama and Clemson DID have very good QBs transfer out because of playing time concerns. But it was mostly not G5s that profited.

That isn’t unique to them, we’ve had quarterbacks transfer because they weren’t satisfied with their playing time either.

If underclassmen and the risk of them transferring begins to dictate your choice of starting quarterback, you have absolutely no business coaching college football.q When you are coaching for your job, underclassmen transferring away doesn’t even register on your radar. You are putting the guy out there that you believe will either make the fewest mistake or will make the most plays, you don’t give a rip about playing favorites at that point. If favorites was a thing, Ruder would’ve stayed in for the entire LaTech game. I liked what I saw Martin in limited action too but there has to be some limitation that is keeping him from seeing the field. Maybe it is mobility due to a lack of pass protection, I have no idea but I doubt very seriously Littrell is avoiding playing him because of some fondness for Aune.

There was a time early on that I will admit to wanting to have Shanbour replace Fine when he wasn’t performing as well as I would have liked. I thought maybe it was some fondness for Fine driving the decision at the time but I was flat out wrong. Mason was just a much better quarterback. I have to believe the coaches are still looking to play the best player available today.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Watch what happens to Aune, heck, even Ruder, when an actual QB coach gets here. We haven’t had one worth a flip since either QB has been here.

But yeah, hit the portal (and don’t get a guy who rarely got on the field like Ruder) for sure.

[El Paso Eagle]

The 2021 cycle saw over 150 QBs enter the portal. It's a reality of the modern era of college football that quarterbacks will be quick to find greener grass (and better opportunity) after even just one season on campus. 

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-transfer-portal-Quarterbacks-174474199/#174474199_1

 

[MeanGreenWarDaddy]

I feel like it is more QB development that is lacking more then anything. I feel like Harrell truly developed Fine. Don’t get me wrong Fine definitely had/has the mamba mentality which is why I think he accelerated as quickly as he did. But I do think Harrell’s leadership helped in developing and Fine tuning (No pun intended) Fines’ QB knowledge and skills.  
 

if we had someone developing the QBs that came in I think we would be in a different boat.

Passing accuracy shouldn’t be as bad as it’s been with our QBs. IMO

[97and03]

11 hours ago, CaribbeanGreen said:

In his time here, Fine threw to 3 NFL WRs and handed the ball to a NFL RB. We all love the guy, rightfully so, but that's a hell of a part to make a QB better, and we don't have that right now. 

This is a valid point. He also got the ball to where they could catch it even if it wasn’t always perfect. Aune often misses so badly there is no chance to make a play. Our WRs have a lot of drops this year but still…

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

20 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

The 2021 cycle saw over 150 QBs enter the portal. It's a reality of the modern era of college football that quarterbacks will be quick to find greener grass (and better opportunity) after even just one season on campus. 

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-transfer-portal-Quarterbacks-174474199/#174474199_1

 

 

I see 150 potential opportunities for the right head coach and QB coach to hit on a program changing QB to lead an already talented roster to the summit of the conference. 

[VideoEagle]

58 minutes ago, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

 

I see 150 potential opportunities for the right head coach and QB coach to hit on a program changing QB to lead an already talented roster to the summit of the conference. 

Tap the brakes there! Just because a QB enters the transfer portal does NOT make him a program changing QB. The realistic chances are closer to 10% of that.