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El Paso Eagle

By El Paso Eagle
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El Paso Eagle Grand Master

El Paso Eagle

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Seth's Offense is no longer any part of the "Air Raid" family, not even a distant cousin. 

He's closer to the Darrell Dickey family tree than the Mike Leach tree.

Next thing you know he will be driving a Buick!

 

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El Paso Eagle Grand Master

El Paso Eagle

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46 minutes ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

I think it's safe to say he won't be back next year...

I hope you are right. Here my pie-in-the-sky guess

  • If we are going to start AAC play in 2023 you have to make the move this year to give the new HC time before AAC play starts
  • If AAC play does not start until 2024 then Wren and Neal will have to weigh out the +/- of keeping Seth one more year (does anyone actually know what the buyout is after 2022?) compared to paying out a million +
Edited by El Paso Eagle
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UNT Texas Hooligan Grand Master

UNT Texas Hooligan

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Posted
10 hours ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

I think it's safe to say he won't be back next year...

No shot. He'll be an FCS/DII offensive coordinator or an offensive analyst somewhere with how badly his offenses have fallen off.

9 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Fuente’s Hokies won today too. 😕

I respect the fight his team's put up. Unfortunately, looks like they have reached the easier part of their schedule. Entirely possible they win out barring the Miami and UVA games.

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BillySee58 Grand Master

BillySee58

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Posted
12 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Seth's Offense is no longer any part of the "Air Raid" family, not even a distant cousin. 

He's closer to the Darrell Dickey family tree than the Mike Leach tree.

Next thing you know he will be driving a Buick!

 

This offense hasn’t been an air-raid offense since Harrell left. And even then it was starting to transition.

This offense is a Veer and Shoot offense, which is the offense Art Briles has popularized and we really fully adopted when we hired two of his understudies, Mike Bloesch and Tate Wallis.

It is very similar to June Jones’ run and shoot but also uses the concept of the Veer offense. The Veer offense is what most people refer to as “running the triple option” like the service academies do. 

When you watch Army’s Veer, what’s the first handoff option for the QB each play? It’s the FB dive. Then if the QB doesn’t hand it off he generally runs the traditional speed option play where he can keep it or pitch. That’s obviously the meat and potatoes of the Veer.

For the Veer and Shoot, instead of starting most plays with the FB Dive handoff/pull option, we do something similar with our running back. But instead of the options for our QB being handoff or run the speed option, our QB has an RPO (run/pass option) to either hand the ball off or pull the ball and throw. 

That’s the meat and potatoes of our offense. RPO with a RB dive type play, or pull the ball and pass, usually depending on the alignment of the defense.

I’m sure I didn’t describe it perfectly, but that’s essentially the context to our offensive scheme and why we run the ball up the middle so much. Which a lot of fans complain about every game, often because many of us grew up with running the ball in defined gaps or holes, whereas this is a zone-blocking scheme anyways so it’s not designed that way to begin with.

https://www.thedailystampede.com/2018/8/24/17775952/what-is-the-veer-and-shoot-offense-and-what-can-we-expect-usf-football-baylor-sterlin-gilbert-rgiii

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El Paso Eagle Grand Master

El Paso Eagle

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

This offense hasn’t been an air-raid offense since Harrell left. And even then it was starting to transition.

This offense is a Veer and Shoot offense, which is the offense Art Briles has popularized and we really fully adopted when we hired two of his understudies, Mike Bloesch and Tate Wallis.

It is very similar to June Jones’ run and shoot but also uses the concept of the Veer offense. The Veer offense is what most people refer to as “running the triple option” like the service academies do. 

When you watch Army’s Veer, what’s the first handoff option for the QB each play? It’s the FB dive. Then if the QB doesn’t hand it off he generally runs the traditional speed option play where he can keep it or pitch. That’s obviously the meat and potatoes of the Veer.

For the Veer and Shoot, instead of starting most plays with the FB Dive handoff/pull option, we do something similar with our running back. But instead of the options for our QB being handoff or run the speed option, our QB has an RPO (run/pass option) to either hand the ball off or pull the ball and throw. 

That’s the meat and potatoes of our offense. RPO with a RB dive type play, or pull the ball and pass, usually depending on the alignment of the defense.

I’m sure I didn’t describe it perfectly, but that’s essentially the context to our offensive scheme and why we run the ball up the middle so much. Which a lot of fans complain about every game, often because many of us grew up with running the ball in defined gaps or holes, whereas this is a zone-blocking scheme anyways so it’s not designed that way to begin with.

https://www.thedailystampede.com/2018/8/24/17775952/what-is-the-veer-and-shoot-offense-and-what-can-we-expect-usf-football-baylor-sterlin-gilbert-rgiii

Thanks. Good information. I just worry with our QB situation that we don't have someone who can elevate those around him and not enough talent and too many injuries for a game manager" at QD.

Edited by El Paso Eagle
GrandGreen Grand Master

GrandGreen

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, KingDL1 said:

There is no way Seth is back next year.

Sure if NT wins out, there is no way he is not coming back.  

It is almost like some NT fans rather have Littrell fired than winning the remaining games. 

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El Paso Eagle Grand Master

El Paso Eagle

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26 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Sure if NT wins out, there is no way he is not coming back.  

It is almost like some NT fans rather have Littrell fired than winning the remaining games. 

I think we would all like to see us win out. The problem is that brings Seth back - the highest paid coach in CUSA who is 6 seasons has been a major disappointment. You have seen what the product on the field is an if we head into the AAC the competition will only get tougher. If you are good having a HC who can squeak out wins against bad teams and in many cases not even be competitive against average teams, and then get ran over by the good teams, then I guess we agree to disagree. 

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NorthTexasWeLove Grand Master

NorthTexasWeLove

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Sure if NT wins out, there is no way he is not coming back.  

It is almost like some NT fans rather have Littrell fired than winning the remaining games. 

I think 5 brings him back. I don't want to see us get to 5 because our program has grown stagnant with him here. That doesn't mean I want us to necessarily lose, it just means I don't want him back here. We need new blood, new recruiting strategies, new S&C, new program under more A-type and hungry leadership. 

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KingDL1 Veteran

KingDL1

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Sure if NT wins out, there is no way he is not coming back.  

It is almost like some NT fans rather have Littrell fired than winning the remaining games. 

He is not going to win out. Beat a few of the worst teams in football is not a factor. He has had 6 years to get his shit together time to move on. 

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Rudy Grand Master

Rudy

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Sure if NT wins out, there is no way he is not coming back.  

It is almost like some NT fans rather have Littrell fired than winning the remaining games. 

We want what is best for the program. Bringing Seth back is not what is best. So....

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GrandGreen Grand Master

GrandGreen

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Rudy said:

We want what is best for the program. Bringing Seth back is not what is best. So....

So you want the team to lose where NT will change coaches.

Make sense to me, I hope McCasland loses a lot of games where other teams won't come after him.   Same kind of logic

 

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KingDL1 Veteran

KingDL1

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

So you want the team to lose where NT will change coaches.

Make sense to me, I hope McCasland loses a lot of games where other teams won't come after him.   Same kind of logic

 

Not the same.

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El Paso Eagle Grand Master

El Paso Eagle

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

So you want the team to lose where NT will change coaches.

Make sense to me, I hope McCasland loses a lot of games where other teams won't come after him.   Same kind of logic

 

So you think it would be best for the program if, for example, Seth hits 5 wins (@$400K per win) and does enough to keep a job that he has had 6 years and the best resources in our history to prove he was the right person for and has failed? There is a lot of work to do before we start AAC play, hopefully in 2023. We need to move forward and allow the next coach to have time to start getting ready. So does losing suck? Yes. But so does being a bottom feeder with the recourses we have and the salary we are paying. No one is saying to make a change for change sake, but rater realizing that something needs to be done. So yes, it puts the fans in a tough place and we hate seeing out teams lose, but if something doesn't change were going to lose another wave of UNT alums who will end up supporting other teams. 

Edited by El Paso Eagle
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Rudy Grand Master

Rudy

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

So you want the team to lose where NT will change coaches.

Make sense to me, I hope McCasland loses a lot of games where other teams won't come after him.   Same kind of logic

 

NOT. EVEN. CLOSE. 

 

We want what is BEST for the program. You want McCasland to succeed and build up the program. If he leaves, he's elevated the program. By winning out, people who make decisions to keep or fire Seth may think he's turned the corner. If he can win out and admin still see it's time to make the change, great. But many don't have that confidence, and for good reason. So if it takes us losing out to make the donors see that Seth needs to go, then unfortunately that is what needs to happen for the better of the University of North Texas. I hate that for the players, as they deserve better. But this goes beyond what is best for an individual.  That's why the best thing is to fire Seth now, so the change has been made and we can still root to win games. 

 

You're comparing apples to dog shit and you are smarter than that. 

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untjim1995 Grand Master

untjim1995

Posted
Posted

The best thing that can happen is for us to lose because it means SL is gone at the end of this year. Nothing will change for the better if he gets another year by beating the dregs of FBS to get to 4-5 wins. 
 

Yesterday was not anywhere close to being the best thing for North Texas and it’s football future.  We need to lose as much as possible and that is hard to hear but it’s the only way we can get better at the coaching position. To think otherwise right now is idiocy.

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untjim1995 Grand Master

untjim1995

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Rudy said:

NOT. EVEN. CLOSE. 

 

We want what is BEST for the program. You want McCasland to succeed and build up the program. If he leaves, he's elevated the program. By winning out, people who make decisions to keep or fire Seth may think he's turned the corner. If he can win out and admin still see it's time to make the change, great. But many don't have that confidence, and for good reason. So if it takes us losing out to make the donors see that Seth needs to go, then unfortunately that is what needs to happen for the better of the University of North Texas. I hate that for the players, as they deserve better. But this goes beyond what is best for an individual.  That's why the best thing is to fire Seth now, so the change has been made and we can still root to win games. 

 

You're comparing apples to dog shit and you are smarter than that. 

He really isn’t…

El Paso Eagle Grand Master

El Paso Eagle

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Just now, Rudy said:

NOT. EVEN. CLOSE. 

 

We want what is BEST for the program. You want McCasland to succeed and build up the program. If he leaves, he's elevated the program. By winning out, people who make decisions to keep or fire Seth may think he's turned the corner. If he can win out and admin still see it's time to make the change, great. But many don't have that confidence, and for good reason. So if it takes us losing out to make the donors see that Seth needs to go, then unfortunately that is what needs to happen for the better of the University of North Texas. I hate that for the players, as they deserve better. But this goes beyond what is best for an individual.  That's why the best thing is to fire Seth now, so the change has been made and we can still root to win games. 

 

You're comparing apples to dog shit and you are smarter than that. 

In the reality of FBS finances for almost all G5 schools, what you hope for is to have a coach come in and do so well he is hired by a P5 with more money, not to have to fire them because they failed. That's was part of the reason Seth has a high buyout. At the time it seemed he was on the way up and out and the University hedged it's bet. The bubble burst. But if he had been hired away and UNT was give a $2M check we would have been saying what a great move it was. It was a gamble, and this time it didn't work. Part of trying to play with the bigger teams is understand the risk/reward requirements.

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GrandGreen Grand Master

GrandGreen

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Posted
6 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

So you think it would be best for the program if, for example, Seth his 5 wins (@$400K per win) and does enough to keep a job that he has had 6 years and the best resources in our history to prove he was the right person for and has failed? There is a lot of work to do before we start AAC play, hopefully in 2023. We need to move forward and allow the next coach to have time to start getting ready. So does losing suck? Yes. But so does being a bottom feeder with the recourses we have and the salary we are paying. No one is saying to make a change for change sake, but rater realizing that something needs to be done. So yes, it puts the fans in a tough place and we hate seeing out teams lose, but if something doesn't change were going to lose another wave of UNT alums who will end up supporting other teams. 

What I want has absolutely nothing to do with whether Littrell will return.  I doubt you have any more influence. 

What we think is not a factor.

What matters is the record, if he wins 6 and probably 5; he is likely to return.  

For the record, I will never hope NT loses because of some type of conceived long term gain.  

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GrandGreen Grand Master

GrandGreen

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Rudy said:

NOT. EVEN. CLOSE. 

 

We want what is BEST for the program. You want McCasland to succeed and build up the program. If he leaves, he's elevated the program. By winning out, people who make decisions to keep or fire Seth may think he's turned the corner. If he can win out and admin still see it's time to make the change, great. But many don't have that confidence, and for good reason. So if it takes us losing out to make the donors see that Seth needs to go, then unfortunately that is what needs to happen for the better of the University of North Texas. I hate that for the players, as they deserve better. But this goes beyond what is best for an individual.  That's why the best thing is to fire Seth now, so the change has been made and we can still root to win games. 

 

You're comparing apples to dog shit and you are smarter than that. 

You actually think I want McCasland to lose?   I have no idea what your last statement means, but I would have hoped you would have been smarter than to make it. 

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