Facilities - Existing AAC School Points to UNT’s Example

Harry · October 26, 2021

19 hours ago, chomp said:

While everyone has mentioned UNT’s investment in facilities as key to the AAC invite, I thought that it was interesting to see USF pointing to UNT as an example that it needs to follow.

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/bulls/2021/10/22/what-usf-football-can-learn-from-this-round-of-aac-expansion/?fbclid=IwAR1m3AFDlfNTTlrCy0ZZFNplCTSTW9omYuesipNSz6PWapmsdRPizXRVlok

Great article. Thank you for posting that.

El Paso Eagle · October 26, 2021

40 minutes ago, ipd054 said:

Just read the master plan... A new arena is in the works, just not yet. Source: https://www.lightthetower.com/images/masterplanbook.pdf

Would be very happy with something like the 7K set arena at GCU in the WAC

GCU Arena - Grand Canyon University

Grand Canyon Makes the Leap to Division I, With Star Clout - The New York Times

Cooke County Kid · October 26, 2021

All we need now is a baseball field with stands 😊

GO MEAN GREEN!!!
WIN GAMES!!!!!!!

Harry · October 26, 2021

12 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Would be very happy with something like the 7K set arena at GCU in the WAC

Damn that's a pretty nice facility.

GrayEagle · October 26, 2021

Why wouldn't they have to remove the asbestos regardless of its use? I don't see that use of the

the Super Pit is an insurmountable problem. TCU, for example, uses their basketball arena for graduations and, I believe, other activities, seemingly without a problem. I believe that eventually the basketball arena should be moved across the interstate but with the need for a baseball park and improvements to other facilities I would think that a new basketball arena could be postponed for another five years.

golfingomez · October 27, 2021

Idaho has a pretty sweet facility for basketball too

DentonLurker · October 27, 2021

3 hours ago, GrayEagle said:

I believe that eventually the basketball arena should be moved across the interstate but with the need for a baseball park and improvements to other facilities I would think that a new basketball arena could be postponed for another

I would love to see baseball as much as the next guy, but I don’t think we should add baseball until we improve the athletic center, basketball arena/practice facility/volleyball, softball, etc. I’m not a fan of adding sports until we have the facilities our current sports need and deserve. Plus, anything we can do to keep McCasland for another few years, I’m all in.

Mike Jackson · October 27, 2021

7 hours ago, ColoradoEagle said:

I just hope we don't get caught up in the desire to revive baseball. I want it eventually and will be an avid fan, but it's a dying sport and does nothing for our brand.

Spot on. This part of Texas is not exactly a hotbed of baseball talent and fan interest. We at least had 3 minor league teams fold or move from the area in the past 20 years. Two before Covid. And the Air Hogs probably would have folded without Covid. They merged with an Amarillo team to stay afloat before Covid was an issue. I just had to look up the Denton Outlaws. (At the time they were active I thought they were a pizza joint. I got them confused with Pizza Patron I think. 😂) No rush for baseball. It will hemorrhage money getting started and it makes balancing thing for title 9 a little harder.

I love the SuperPit. The location is perfect. If the AD doesn’t own it then something should worked out. Even if there is a compromise and the new Arena takes over the block that had Sac & Save, IHOP, and McDonalds long ago. You can move those offices anywhere.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Mike Jackson

UNTLifer · October 27, 2021

Sorry, but baseball isn't a dying sport and using independent minor league teams with no major league affiliation as examples is really comparing apples and oranges. The Roughriders seem to be doing fine and drawing good crowds and the talent at the high school level in the DFW area is superb.

TreeFiddy · October 27, 2021

1 hour ago, Mike Jackson said:

Spot on. This part of Texas is not exactly a hotbed of baseball talent and fan interest. We at least had 3 minor league teams fold or move from the area in the past 20 years. Two before Covid. And the Air Hogs probably would have folded without Covid. They merged with an Amarillo team to stay afloat before Covid was an issue. I just had to look up the Denton Outlaws. (At the time they were active I thought they were a pizza joint. I got them confused with Pizza Patron I think. 😂) No rush for baseball. It will hemorrhage money getting started and it makes balancing thing for title 9 a little harder.

I love the SuperPit. The location is perfect. If the AD doesn’t own it then something should worked out. Even if there is a compromise and the new Arena takes over the block that had Sac & Save, IHOP, and McDonalds long ago. You can move those offices anywhere.

The area where the old Sac n Save is planned to be the new front entrance to the university. Those offices will be removed at some point. I doubt they have any interest in building an athletic facility in that location.

ColoradoEagle · October 27, 2021

54 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Sorry, but baseball isn't a dying sport

It is slowly dying. Viewership is down 12% this year compared with 2019. The average NBA fan is 42 where the avg. for baseball is 57. The fact that people only care about their local teams combined with Sinclair’s bungling of the RSNs is accelerating the process.

Mean Green Matt · October 27, 2021

12 hours ago, GrayEagle said:

I believe that eventually the basketball arena should be moved across the interstate

Why? This is the biggest problem. It’s like having the least on-campus on-campus facilities we could possibly have.

Wag Tag · October 27, 2021

14 hours ago, GrayEagle said:

Why wouldn't they have to remove the asbestos regardless of its use? I don't see that use of the

the Super Pit is an insurmountable problem. TCU, for example, uses their basketball arena for graduations and, I believe, other activities, seemingly without a problem. I believe that eventually the basketball arena should be moved across the interstate but with the need for a baseball park and improvements to other facilities I would think that a new basketball arena could be postponed for another five years.

The under side of the Pit is also the mechanical of the Pit. Asbestos was used for insulation, sound deadening and appearance. Alot of duct work and structures are wrapped in asbestos.The danger is to remove . Everything has to be sealed because of the dust particles ( EPA ) mandate) and the workers are basically wearing hazmat suits. These are specialists. Also it can’t go to a regular dump. This was my experience on remodeling our building. Very costly. Our number one issue is the weight room, trainers area and rehab. I know it is on the AD plan, but I don’t think we can wait another 5 years. 5,000sq ft for all sports?? I would like to see them move NOW on a new 15,000aq ft football only behind the IPF. ( UTSA) It would help with recruiting and maybe help with injuries. GMG

Edited October 27, 2021 by Wag Tag

wardly · October 28, 2021

On 10/26/2021 at 9:40 PM, golfingomez said:

Idaho has a pretty sweet facility for basketball too

So does Tulsa. An on campus 6,000 seat basketball arena would be perfect. I say "on campus " as because of the number of games played basketball is an "occurrence" while football is an "event". To get students to come out in numbers the arena needs to be within walking distance . I think that a new arena would need to be financed in the same manner our football stadium was, without using state funds. However, if the "Super Pit" is getting a "make over" that updates locker rooms, etc. , it is hard to cost justify a new arena. Speaking of hard to justify, why would you spend millions of dollars to add a non revenue sport such as baseball for a few hundred fans? Besides a baseball stadium you must add women's sports [I don't recall the number] to offset the addition of a men's sport. My benchmark is that if SMU can't afford it, UNT can't.

wardly · October 28, 2021

2 minutes ago, wardly said:

So does Tulsa. An on campus 6,000 seat basketball arena would be perfect. I say "on campus " as because of the number of games played basketball is an "occurrence" while football is an "event". To get students to come out in numbers the arena needs to be within walking distance . I think that a new arena would need to be financed in the same manner our football stadium was, without using state funds. However, if the "Super Pit" is getting a "make over" that updates locker rooms, etc. , it is hard to cost justify a new arena. Speaking of hard to justify, why would you spend millions of dollars to add a non revenue sport such as baseball for a few hundred fans? Besides a baseball stadium you must add women's sports [I don't recall the number] to offset the addition of a men's sport. My benchmark is that if SMU can't afford it, UNT can't.

The Idaho Arena seats 4,200 and is primarily made of wood. Looks great.

UNTLifer · October 28, 2021

19 minutes ago, wardly said:

The Idaho Arena seats 4,200 and is primarily made of wood. Looks great.

https://govandals.com/facilities/iccu-arena/14

I am a fan of baseball and would love to see it added. The scholarship limit is 11.7 divided amongst a maximum of 27 players for baseball, so adding the same amount of scholarships for a woman's sport shouldn't be difficult.

Someone mentioned that DFW isn't a talent rich area, which I disagree with 100%. Rockwall Heath, Southlake, Argyle, Colleyville Heritage, Northwest Eaton, Grapevine, Jesuit, Prosper, Flower Mound, etc. have one state titles in the last decade and schools like Keller, Rockwall, Coppell and others have gone deep in the playoffs. The Denton schools, Ryan in particular, have had good teams in recent years as well.

I know most would be against this, but Doug Rush, head coach at Tomball High and North Texas alum, has won over 500 games in his coaching career and sent many players to major universities and MLB would be a great coach to start our program.

I also believe we would draw more than a "couple hundred" fans. Just my HO.

Edited October 28, 2021 by UNTLifer

Legend500 · October 28, 2021

On 10/26/2021 at 10:40 AM, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

You just pointed out SMU’s biggest problem. They claim they don’t want to increase enrollment, in reality they can’t. Don’t have the space.

I thought the recent news that SMU has sold it's Plano facilities and may be leaving completely was a telling move. It's an admission that they're capped, and that either they are facing issues with applications (because you can now get more for less at the area state schools) or intend to raise admission standards (by only offering admission to the top 95% of Jesuit, St. Mark's, Hockaday and Ursuline students).

On 10/26/2021 at 5:29 PM, DentonLurker said:

The problem with the Super Pit to me is that you would just never really be able to make it truly feel like a modern arena. The stands are too far from the court, the floor seats look like what they are…floor seats added to an arena that was built without them. It really just feels dated, as previously stated, and I just don’t think you could overcome that. It’s just time to move on and start over.

I doubt it's economically viable, but the best way to get rid of the Superpit in favor of building a Hyperpit is to talk the Music Department into renovating it for their opera house. Those people get everything they want.

On 10/26/2021 at 10:33 PM, Mike Jackson said:

Spot on. This part of Texas is not exactly a hotbed of baseball talent and fan interest. We at least had 3 minor league teams fold or move from the area in the past 20 years. Two before Covid. And the Air Hogs probably would have folded without Covid. They merged with an Amarillo team to stay afloat before Covid was an issue. I just had to look up the Denton Outlaws. (At the time they were active I thought they were a pizza joint. I got them confused with Pizza Patron I think. 😂) No rush for baseball. It will hemorrhage money getting started and it makes balancing thing for title 9 a little harder.

I love the SuperPit. The location is perfect. If the AD doesn’t own it then something should worked out. Even if there is a compromise and the new Arena takes over the block that had Sac & Save, IHOP, and McDonalds long ago. You can move those offices anywhere.

Baseball is a saturated market. It is in relative decline, and it makes no sense throwing money into a sport which is already over-competitive and over-recruited in Texas and where we'd be competing with UTSA for relevance. It also requires the construction of a separate facility.

There are two sports where the DFW area has become an incubator for talent, which either require no new facilities or they can be built as part of other contemplated facilities, that have growing fan bases, and that provide an ability to set ourselves apart from other schools or to reinforce current rivalries. I would support the addition of men's soccer, or of men's and women's ice hockey well before adding baseball.

There's a reason we don't have baseball facilities or even a team yet even after trying for years. Baseball doesn't attract enough support from donors to justify its addition. Trying something totally different and unique in an area with strong interest but no college teams (hockey) or something which requires minimal additional investment but is filled with area talent (soccer) would both offer better support than baseball has.

Green Otaku · October 28, 2021

One thing I always thought about the Athletic Center expansion was it will forever lock us into a horse shoe design. That part of the stadium will never be filled in.

UNTLifer · October 28, 2021

1 hour ago, Legend500 said:

There's a reason we don't have baseball facilities or even a team yet even after trying for years. Baseball doesn't attract enough support from donors to justify its addition. Trying something totally different and unique in an area with strong interest but no college teams (hockey) or something which requires minimal additional investment but is filled with area talent (soccer) would both offer better support than baseball has.

Well, RV had a major donor all lined up to underwrite the program. Not sure how you can make the comment "baseball doesn't attract enough support from donors..." when it has never been offered and the department has made it clear that it is on their radar, but nothing is eminent.

wardly · October 28, 2021

6 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

https://govandals.com/facilities/iccu-arena/14

I am a fan of baseball and would love to see it added. The scholarship limit is 11.7 divided amongst a maximum of 27 players for baseball, so adding the same amount of scholarships for a woman's sport shouldn't be difficult.

Someone mentioned that DFW isn't a talent rich area, which I disagree with 100%. Rockwall Heath, Southlake, Argyle, Colleyville Heritage, Northwest Eaton, Grapevine, Jesuit, Prosper, Flower Mound, etc. have one state titles in the last decade and schools like Keller, Rockwall, Coppell and others have gone deep in the playoffs. The Denton schools, Ryan in particular, have had good teams in recent years as well.

I know most would be against this, but Doug Rush, head coach at Tomball High and North Texas alum, has won over 500 games in his coaching career and sent many players to major universities and MLB would be a great coach to start our program.

I also believe we would draw more than a "couple hundred" fans. Just my HO.

So 8 of CUSA's established baseball programs average between 500 and 250 fans per game. The other 4 are between 3,000 (So.Miss.) and 900. The cost for a stadium is at least $10 million , so why would you invest in a sport that is a cash drain on an underfunded athletic department even if you drew a "couple thousand fans " fans. Just my opinion, but its financially irresponsible to make a capital investment of that magnitude in order to add a non revenue producing sport for an unknown fan base.

MeanGreenTexan · October 29, 2021

3 hours ago, wardly said:

So 8 of CUSA's established baseball programs average between 500 and 250 fans per game. The other 4 are between 3,000 (So.Miss.) and 900. The cost for a stadium is at least $10 million , so why would you invest in a sport that is a cash drain on an underfunded athletic department even if you drew a "couple thousand fans " fans. Just my opinion, but its financially irresponsible to make a capital investment of that magnitude in order to add a non revenue producing sport for an unknown fan base.

… for now.