Is a safety reviewable ?

[greenjoe]

The Liberty QB was in the grasp of the defense.  Should the officials have waited for the WB to be thrown to the turf before calling a safety ?  
 

Failing that scenario, isn’t throwing the ball backwards facing away from downfield intentional grounding ?

This play must not have been reviewable since no review was asked for by coach or officials.  
 

That play cost us the game.

[rws69]

Did not understand why that was not grounding.

Would have been nice if a defensive player caught it!

[Charlie NT 73]

We’re the refs paid off to favor Liberty?

Kidding aside, the officiating in this game was terrible! There were many blown calls!

I have only very badly criticized game officiating a couple times: the non touchdown catch by Texas and now this Liberty game!

IMHO, the refs cost us this game! If we got the safety and the 2 points to tie the game, the momentum was back to the team, and Liberty would kick back to us.

The missed grounding call was another big game changer too. 
 

Sorry ass refs! Never use these officials again!

[denton_days]

Unfortunately, it technically does follow the rules, but the rules obviously need to be changed, because that was bull****. Why doesn’t intentional grounding count outside of the pocket? Makes no sense. Or if the ball is intentionally fumbled and rolls out if bounds, should that be a safety?

[trud1966]

I happed to be standing very close to that play when it happened.   Agreed, it did look REALLY suspicious, and we all know the QBs intent was to just get rid of a live grenade.....So alot of stuff was happening there...Biggest sin that was committed, is he was clearly in the grasp, failing and flailing, being dragged off balance by at at least 2 UNT guys (maybe 3?, I dont remember...) The whistle SHOULD have been blown, his play was going nowhere...

As for other rules, I'd be interested to hear a Ref's complete explanation.    Yes, he did throw the ball, no-look, backwards over his shoulder...But, as odd as that looks, I dont think there's any rule about exactly "HOW" you throw a forward pass...   He was outta the tackle box, and the very close to the sidelines when it was chucked...He got extremely lucky on that call...  

[outoftown]

I thought all scoring plays are reviewable. And last I counted, you score points for a safety.

[Green Lantern]

8 hours ago, trud1966 said:

I happed to be standing very close to that play when it happened.   Agreed, it did look REALLY suspicious, and we all know the QBs intent was to just get rid of a live grenade.....So alot of stuff was happening there...Biggest sin that was committed, is he was clearly in the grasp, failing and flailing, being dragged off balance by at at least 2 UNT guys (maybe 3?, I dont remember...) The whistle SHOULD have been blown, his play was going nowhere...

As for other rules, I'd be interested to hear a Ref's complete explanation.    Yes, he did throw the ball, no-look, backwards over his shoulder...But, as odd as that looks, I dont think there's any rule about exactly "HOW" you throw a forward pass...   He was outta the tackle box, and the very close to the sidelines when it was chucked...He got extremely lucky on that call...  

By the letter of the law, I think he did manage a "forward" pass in this situation.  The main issue I have is the player safety component of a play like this.  Most times these days, they're doing everything they can to protect the QB - to the point of defensive players almost playing at a disadvantage.  So here, the QB is wrapped up by two players and lost forward progress and the officials let the play continue.  What did they want?  For our players to drive him into the ground?

It's infuriating that offensive players are given latitude to play aggressively at all times, while the defense has to play on their heels.  This play was an example of this and a true game shifting situation. Very unfortunate. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Green Lantern

[greeneagle1]

Does anyone have a clip of this? Trying to explain it to some people wasnt too easy. 

[UNTLifer]

56 minutes ago, greeneagle1 said:

Does anyone have a clip of this? Trying to explain it to some people wasnt too easy. 

Should be able to watch the replay on ESPN+

[greenjoe]

Lantern spoke to my point.  The official either didn't think the QB was in any jeopardy or thought the award of 2 points was too great to be given out with the blow of a whistle.  

So he didn't, with the blow of a call.  

[Hookset]

I believe he was down. Wrapped up and zero forward progress. If that was Aune, we would have been given a safety.

A question I have is if the QB tosses the ball underhand like he did and we recovered it, wouldn’t that be a turnover?

Isn’t that a live ball like it was a pitch to a running back?

Was this play just too confusing for the refs so they chose the worst/easiest option?

[MeanGreen_MBA]

17 minutes ago, Hookset said:

I believe he was down. Wrapped up and zero forward progress. If that was Aune, we would have been given a safety.

A question I have is if the QB tosses the ball underhand like he did and we recovered it, wouldn’t that be a turnover?

Isn’t that a live ball like it was a pitch to a running back?

Was this play just too confusing for the refs so they chose the worst/easiest option?

Any pass going forward, underhand or not is a forward pass. I get that. So throwing it over your head backwards may he conspired a forward pass, but with the spirit of the rule, this is intentional grounding. 

[Withers940]

There were two very ball calls in my mind with in a couple minutes of each other. When we were on offense late in the 3rd they missed a face mask call when Aunne was running the ball

[Withers940]

Here is the play in question. He did manage to shot put the ball past the line of scrimmage but I thought there needed to be someone in the vicinity if the ball stays in bounds

[MeanGreen_MBA]

1 hour ago, Withers940 said:

Here is the play in question. He did manage to shot put the ball past the line of scrimmage but I thought there needed to be someone in the vicinity if the ball stays in bounds

9 times out of 10, that is a sack and safety. 

[Arkstfan]

On 10/25/2021 at 2:44 PM, Withers940 said:

Here is the play in question. He did manage to shot put the ball past the line of scrimmage but I thought there needed to be someone in the vicinity if the ball stays in bounds

Once QB is outside of the tackle box only requirement to avoid grounding is for the ball to cross the line of scrimmage. The rule for forward pass doesn’t require facing the target. A few schools have run a trick play where the QB fakes a handoff and turns his back to the line of scrimmage then flips the ball over his head. 
 

The kicker on this is the defender trying to get the QB under control ends up pushing him toward the line of scrimmage so there is forward progress. 
 

By fluke I happened to tune in just before it happened and initially thought wow, and then it dawned on me, out of pocket, legal forward pass, forward progress, it’s an incomplete pass. 
 

I immediately dashed off an email to Steve Shaw so it might show up in this week’s rules review video. 

[MeanGreenHoops]

15 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

Once QB is outside of the tackle box only requirement to avoid grounding is for the ball to cross the line of scrimmage. The rule for forward pass doesn’t require facing the target. A few schools have run a trick play where the QB fakes a handoff and turns his back to the line of scrimmage then flips the ball over his head. 
 

The kicker on this is the defender trying to get the QB under control ends up pushing him toward the line of scrimmage so there is forward progress. 
 

By fluke I happened to tune in just before it happened and initially thought wow, and then it dawned on me, out of pocket, legal forward pass, forward progress, it’s an incomplete pass. 
 

I immediately dashed off an email to Steve Shaw so it might show up in this week’s rules review video. 

it's too bad that they can't let humans make decisions. The rule to protect a players safety is great. However, in this case it wasn't to do that, he just didn't want to lose yards. Let the refs make that determination and call it a safety.

[Arkstfan]

On 10/27/2021 at 10:00 AM, MeanGreenHoops said:

it's too bad that they can't let humans make decisions. The rule to protect a players safety is great. However, in this case it wasn't to do that, he just didn't want to lose yards. Let the refs make that determination and call it a safety.

NCAA disagrees 

 

[UNTcrazy727]

1 hour ago, Arkstfan said:

NCAA disagrees 

 

What they don't discuss in the video and what some have taken issue with is at what point is the QB wrapped up with forward progress stopped? After seeing the play again, I think you can easily argue the QB is still struggling forward enough for the refs to allow the pass without blowing the play dead. 

*Side note: I love how this week's video didn't include the OU vs Kansas play. Now THAT was a blown call on forward progress. The ball carrier should not be able to give up the ball after he's been hit and driven back multiple yards.

Edited October 28, 2021 by UNTcrazy727

[Arkstfan]

6 hours ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

What they don't discuss in the video and what some have taken issue with is at what point is the QB wrapped up with forward progress stopped? After seeing the play again, I think you can easily argue the QB is still struggling forward enough for the refs to allow the pass without blowing the play dead. 

*Side note: I love how this week's video didn't include the OU vs Kansas play. Now THAT was a blown call on forward progress. The ball carrier should not be able to give up the ball after he's been hit and driven back multiple yards.

Yeah I think you can argue the defender actually gave the QB forward progress in trying to tackle him

[El Paso Eagle]

One of the main things about a play like this that frustrates me is that in most cases a quarterback is protected to the point where if you hit him you're going to get a penalty. Why choose a play like this to let him get hit and wrapped up, but you don't stop to play?