I Think Seth Will Be Our HC Next Year

[p_phelps]

If Seth is back, I won't be. I feel like an addic with unt football.  I wasn't going to watch,  glanced at the score and here and looked promising.  Turned it on in the background.  By the 3rd qt I'm consumed with the game and frustrated at mega levels. Seth is just not good at coaching. We're so undisciplined. We're so bad a qb. Play calling looks like we hired Jason Garrett.  I'm done until Seth is gone 

[Mrs. Esterhouse]

5 hours ago, 97and03 said:

He deserves credit for two bowls. The other two were with a losing record. 

The first bowl with a losing record we only got because the academics under Coach McCarney were so good. 

[TreeFiddy]

CUSA exit fee = $3M

AAC entrance fee = $2.5M

Not sure about exit fee, but entrance fees can normally be paid out over time if needed.

[southsideguy]

Does SL make it to the number one hot seat this week, if so does it matter.  Haven't seen what NEB did last night Frost was number one but I have faith.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

No chance he's back. None. 

I have faith in Wren Baker to right a very glaring wrong. This will not be a Tony Benford 2.0 scenario. Some say we can't afford to change. I say we can't afford to not change. We are already struggling for 1/3 attendance. Finish this year up and bring this staff back we will struggle to fill 1/4, maybe a 1/5. 

[Pseudo Nym]

1 hour ago, TreeFiddy said:

CUSA exit fee = $3M

AAC entrance fee = $2.5M

Not sure about exit fee, but entrance fees can normally be paid out over time if needed.

Does anyone know the actual language in the contracts that define the exit fee, the terms, and any exceptions?

I'm thinking if I'm UTEP for example, I'm talking to some lawyers about the prospect of being "the last school standing" and holding every other school to account for their exit fee. 

Of course, unless the language in the bylaws allows for a simple majority vote to alter the exit fees and terms, in which case the nine schools who have already announced their intent to leave can vote to change the exit fee?

Even in that situation, if i"m UTEP, I'm having some heavy handed lawyers go through that thing with a fine-tooth comb and throwing around words like collusion and false claims - can anyone recall a school suing in previous realignments or when a conference has dissolved? Or even threatening legal action?

Edit: Damn, I just thought, if you are UTEP and you want to do this, it's going to put Adm. McRaven the Chancellor of the UT System and BOR in one helluva position, the Big 12 would be watching very closely.  They may need another non-Texas school to hold on an initiate it with them, which may muddy the waters even more as the UT System would be put in one really tough spot considering the precedent a case like this would make, and the impact it would have on other UT schools now and in the future.  

Edited October 24, 2021 by Pseudo Nym

[untjim1995]

Here’s the thing—SL’s season basically starts now. It’s always been about these last few games. Nobody who wasn’t a homer knew this. There’s a reason most looked at our schedule and penciled us in at 1-6. We aren’t anywhere near as good as the gauntlet of teams we just played. Is that SL’s fault? Of course. Is it Wren Baker’s fault that we have a coach with a ridiculous salary and buyout? Of course. But that never has changed the reality of this season and what games are his truest measure. SL has friends in very high places here—Wren and the Lovelaces immediately come to mind. They are forking over $3 million dollars unless it’s obvious to THEM that we are going backwards. Going backwards is finishing worse than the last two seasons. So the games against Rice, UTEP, FIU, and USM are the barometers to see where we stand. He wins three of those, he probably stays. He doesn’t, he probably is gone.

Look, I want him gone. He’s proven to be a huge spare without Graham Harrell and Mason Fine. But I know that 4 wins is probably his bar to reach. It sucks and beating the dregs of FBS is so small time, but again, money talks, and needing to payoff exit fees for CUSA, entrance fees for the AAC, and buying out SL and staff is probably about an $8-9 million dollar outlay. If we have that money, from the university’s coffers to BMD’s, I’ll be through you surprised and exhilarated to see it used. But I just don’t see it happening IF SL gets us back to 4 wins. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by untjim1995

[KingDL1]

There is a good chance of no exit fee to CUSA. Fees and payouts are spread out and financed. 

[Hookset]

7 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

There is a good chance of no exit fee to CUSA. Fees and payouts are spread out and financed. 

There is no chance at all we won’t have to pay an exit fee.

[KingDL1]

26 minutes ago, Hookset said:

There is no chance at all we won’t have to pay an exit fee.

Double negatives are a bit confusing. What is it you are trying to say? 

[Side.Show.Joe]

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

Here’s the thing—SL’s season basically starts now. It’s always been about these last few games. Nobody who wasn’t a homer knew this. There’s a reason most looked at our schedule and penciled us in at 1-6. We aren’t anywhere near as good as the gauntlet of teams we just played. Is that SL’s fault? Of course. Is it Wren Baker’s fault that we have a coach with a ridiculous salary and buyout? Of course. But that never has changed the reality of this season and what games are his truest measure. SL has friends in very high places here—Wren and the Lovelaces immediately come to mind. They are forking over $3 million dollars unless it’s obvious to THEM that we are going backwards. Going backwards is finishing worse than the last two seasons. So the games against Rice, UTEP, FIU, and USM are the barometers to see where we stand. He wins three of those, he probably stays. He doesn’t, he probably is gone.

Look, I want him gone. He’s proven to be a huge spare without Graham Harrell and Mason Fine. But I know that 4 wins is probably his bar to reach. It sucks and beating the dregs of FBS is so small time, but again, money talks, and needing to payoff exit fees for CUSA, entrance fees for the AAC, and buying out SL and staff is probably about an $8-9 million dollar outlay. If we have that money, from the university’s coffers to BMD’s, I’ll be through you surprised and exhilarated to see it used. But I just don’t see it happening IF SL gets us back to 4 wins. 

So we're supposed to only count half of our football season???? What kind of crap is that? That is a loser's philosophy. This is the man's 6th year as head coach. When do the training wheels come off? The fans won't tolerate keeping Littrell for another season. We have too much to lose. Littrell is gone after this season ends, or most fans will be. There is no middle ground on this issue, and Wren knows it.

[Cr1028]

23 hours ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

This kind of reminds me of the groundbreaking for (what would later be named) Apogee Stadium.  Todd Dodge was there, holding a shovel, but he was far from center stage.  If anything, that told me everyone knew he would be gone soon.

Just my opinion.

100% I truly believe the stadium was one of the major reasons Dodge wasn’t fired after 2009. 2010 gave him one last chance to turn it around plus it allowed us to open the stadium with a clean-slate coach if he didn’t.  I have to wonder if we are setting up the same thing to have a clean-slate coach when we start our new conference.

[KingDL1]

9 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

100% I truly believe the stadium was one of the major reasons Dodge wasn’t fired after 2009. 2010 gave him one last chance to turn it around plus it allowed us to open the stadium with a clean-slate coach if he didn’t.  I have to wonder if we are setting up the same thing to have a clean-slate coach when we start our new conference.

What a mistake that would be. Let the new coach come in next season and get started so when we enter the AAC we can be competitive. 

[Cr1028]

There is an awful lot of “Wren will find the money”,”the rich guys will just cut a check” type stuff going on here. Yes, we have some very well off alumni but we don’t have a T Boone or Phil Knight that has a seemingly endless pile of wealth. Our big donors still have to make smart business decisions and it is going to be their call if football sucking is worth them parting with a significant portion of their wealth. Imagine if they started talking about us regular Joes like that. Joe makes $50k per year but we are gonna need him to fork over $10k-$25k because the rest of us aren’t happy with the football program. If you are Joe, you tell the rest of us to kick rocks.

[Cr1028]

3 minutes ago, KingDL1 said:

What a mistake that would be. Let the new coach come in next season and get started so when we enter the AAC we can be competitive. 

Get that checkbook out Joe.

[p_phelps]

5 hours ago, TreeFiddy said:

CUSA exit fee = $3M

AAC entrance fee = $2.5M

Not sure about exit fee, but entrance fees can normally be paid out over time if needed.

If cusa devolves what happens to exit fee

[Marty]

how much money are we going to lose in season ticket sales and MGSF donations if Seth is kept for next season?

[southsideguy]

if you are penciling in loss to CUSA teams you are in trouble to start with.  Rice beat UAB at UAB.

[KingDL1]

26 minutes ago, p_phelps said:

If cusa devolves what happens to exit fee

Bingo - There is none

[Rudy]

33 minutes ago, p_phelps said:

If cusa devolves what happens to exit fee

Judy will probably pocket it.

[Pseudo Nym]

1 hour ago, KingDL1 said:

Bingo - There is none

Not necessarily, there is a of money in the coffers that must be accounted for and when a non-profit dissolves, there are procedures that have to be followed which if not done correctly could land those in charge in some serious hot water, I'll elaborate below.

1 hour ago, Rudy said:

Judy will probably pocket it.

There is a modicum of truth to this, I'll elaborate below.

Exit Fees, 501(c)3's, and the Possibilities  (Dropping bars on a Sunday 🤣🤣)

So, MLB restructured Minor League baseball when the professional baseball agreement expired in 2020.  Prior to that all the minor league, leagues (i.e. Texas League) were non-profits which oversaw the operations of the leagues, renaming them Low-A, Double-A, Triple-A etc. and getting rid of the "Texas League" and "Pacific Coast League" for example, but this was not a marketing move, this was done for legal reasons.

When a non-profit dissolves, part of the process (which they are guided through and must report back to the IRS) is dissemination of funds (the money left in the coffers).  To do this, they must simply identify a similar non-profit, clear it through the IRS, and those funds would be transferred to another non-profit organization.  It is illegal for a for-profit organization to take control of a non-profits funds and intellectual property (The Texas League name and logo are examples of intellectual property), which is why MLB, functioning clearly as for-profit in this circumstance, can lay no claim to the names of The Texas League, Pacific Coast League or remaining funds (end of year balance for the Texas League has usually always been less than $500k).

MLB also has an anti-trust exemption (since 1922) which has allowed them to take control of the entire professional baseball market in the United States, without legal recourse for competitors, it can legally be a monopoly.  Being the monster that they are, they did try to commandeer two league names which has been contested by a new group, Summer League Baseball Inc., which is a 501 nonprofit, which I briefly advised when this all went down and am an ex-officio member.  This is where I learned about this stuff, I'm not a lawyer but learned pretty quickly that non-profit law is big business!

Anyway, I digress (as usual), with regards the exit fee, these will need to be account for in the final audit, short of a vote to change the exit fee and bylaw, prior to the proposed dissolution date of the 501.  This is to say, while there may very well be no exit fee when the time comes, it would need to be done officially, per the bylaws that govern it. 

I'm really curious to see how this goes down, I think about UTEP Athletics and what they're facing in the years ahead, and they have every incentive to say "screw all of you, pay your fee, leave, then it's just us in CUSA, and we would then control all assets."  I'm not saying this will happen, but I do think it's on the table.

Judy's $$$ 

Aresco, the AAC Commissioner, may be the most competent commissioner in all of college sports, he's forward thinking, incredibly and unapologetically bold, and could care less what other people think, he's proven time and time again he's going to get things done and do it in a big way that benefits everyone in the conference - dude is the real (emphasis word) deal.

He has probably already played out every scenario, including UTEP holding up the CUSA Coffers, and has made moves to ensure the AAC reaps the most reward from the dissolution of the CUSA.  

There are five people in the CUSA which make six-figure salaries, and with the dissolution of the 501, will be looking for new jobs.  Transferring the assets and $$$ of CUSA could be at the discretion of the Executive Officers, or the Commissioner, or some combination thereof, depending on how the bylaws are written.  If you've ever set up a 501(c)3 you'll remember that this seemingly routine process required more than one individual to be named in the organization, and you could always add more and remove later, but when a 501(c)3 is first set up, this lays ground of the framework for an eventual dissolution. 

What I'm getting at here is this, Aresco will have all of this laid out (he probably already does) and it could be that when the CUSA dissolution process begins, all assets (including exit fees as they must be account for, see above) could be transferred to the AAC.  

The modicum of truth: Whatever role Judy and co. may play or not play in this, may prove worthy of a job or position in the AAC front office.

I've attached the full 990 from 2019 as well for anyone interested.

TL;DR:

• CUSA MONEY HAS TO GO TO ANOTHER SIMILAR NON-PROFIT 
• THE AAC COULD CLAIM IT OR HAVE IT GIVEN TO THEM BY THE CUSA COMMISSIONER
• INCLUDING ALL EXIT FEE DOLLARS WHICH THE IRS REQUIRES TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR BY THE CUSA BYLAWS
• UNLESS THE BYLAWS ARE OFFICIALLY CHANGED PRIOR TO THE DATE THE NOTICE OF DISSOLUTION OF THE CUSA 501 IS SUBMITTED

Below is from 2019, BUT some of you might find it interesting that Ms. Judy got a $140,000 raise to her annual salary from 2019 to 2020 (it would be patronizing to everyone for me to point out that this was a six-figure raised during the COVID pandemic but I just realized this for the first time and it kind of pisses me off so I'm adding it to the record should an accident befall me on my drive into the city).

GMG!

CUSA 990 - 6.2019.pdf

Edited October 24, 2021 by Pseudo Nym
There is no claims process but rather justification could be made in anticipation of criticism from other leagues or individuals. Unlikely because if another conference finds out about this after the fact, that's a bad look for their commissioner.

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, Marty said:

how much money are we going to lose in season ticket sales and MGSF donations if Seth is kept for next season?

Probably less than $3M.

[C Rod]

I had no idea Judy makes over a half-a-million per year! I thought it was more like $200K - $300K. 

Boy that Judy makes out like a bandit! She must have one hell of an agent because judging from the last CUSA TV deal and her recent letter to Aresco seeking a merger with the AAC, negotiation isn't one of her strengths. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by C Rod

[GrandGreen]

5 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

There is an awful lot of “Wren will find the money”,”the rich guys will just cut a check” type stuff going on here. Yes, we have some very well off alumni but we don’t have a T Boone or Phil Knight that has a seemingly endless pile of wealth. Our big donors still have to make smart business decisions and it is going to be their call if football sucking is worth them parting with a significant portion of their wealth. Imagine if they started talking about us regular Joes like that. Joe makes $50k per year but we are gonna need him to fork over $10k-$25k because the rest of us aren’t happy with the football program. If you are Joe, you tell the rest of us to kick rocks.

You do know that the school kicks in funds to athletics all the time.  

The big donors are generally those that are giving millions to buy buildings. 

The AAC ungrade is going to generate dollars, not cost dollars.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think Littrell's buyouts is going to slow down anything. 

We don't know what NT's plan is, but I am sure they have plans for changing staffs. 

[Cr1028]

15 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

You do know that the school kicks in funds to athletics all the time.  

The big donors are generally those that are giving millions to buy buildings. 

The AAC ungrade is going to generate dollars, not cost dollars.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think Littrell's buyouts is going to slow down anything. 

We don't know what NT's plan is, but I am sure they have plans for changing staffs. 

I stand by my point. As long as someone else pays, we demand our way.