Please stop blaming Wren Baker

[Primo]

WB > RV

[Pseudo Nym]

22 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

 Shifting some of the rest he is owed to the staff that aren’t retained by the new head coach would be classiest.  A year’s salary for each of them for 2022.

 

For real, that's the move right there, I don't think I've ever agreed with something more than this.....absolutely spot on!!!

[WanderingEagle]

3 hours ago, Primo said:

WB > RV

This is literally the most important point of the entire post.

People just downvoting me because they're mad we're losing. I forgot Wren Baker was our offense quality control coach. Christ.

 

You have to literally convince some fans that WB didn't hire Littrell. He hasn't made a football head coaching hire. It's ridiculous how quick people are to jump the gun and blame him before he even gets the chance to fix things.

[Side.Show.Joe]

37 minutes ago, WanderingEagle said:

This is literally the most important point of the entire post.

People just downvoting me because they're mad we're losing. I forgot Wren Baker was our offense quality control coach. Christ.

 

You have to literally convince some fans that WB didn't hire Littrell. He hasn't made a football head coaching hire. It's ridiculous how quick people are to jump the gun and blame him before he even gets the chance to fix things.

What are you talking about? Everyone knows Wren didn't hire Littrell. Not that it makes any difference. He is Littrell's boss and it is his job to hold him accountable. Wren has had years to prepare for this moment. Anyone that has been paying attention has known for well over a year that this was where we were headed. Anyone that thought Littrell was going to magically figure out how to coach in year 6 was just kidding themself. The sooner Wren fixes this the better. If Wren allows it to linger throughout the rest of the season, then Wren deserves the criticism that is sure to continue and grow louder.

[Pavlovs Eagle]

1 minute ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

Anyone that thought Littrell was going to magically figure out how to coach in year 6 was just kidding themself.

This is as true as it gets.  So many seemed absolutely blind to this eventuality.

[WanderingEagle]

43 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

What are you talking about? Everyone knows Wren didn't hire Littrell. Not that it makes any difference. He is Littrell's boss and it is his job to hold him accountable. Wren has had years to prepare for this moment. Anyone that has been paying attention has known for well over a year that this was where we were headed. Anyone that thought Littrell was going to magically figure out how to coach in year 6 was just kidding themself. The sooner Wren fixes this the better. If Wren allows it to linger throughout the rest of the season, then Wren deserves the criticism that is sure to continue and grow louder.

He's had years? Seriously?
So you're saying we should have fired Seth after 2019, fresh after back to back 9 win seasons? Should we have fired him after making a bowl, yes even despite the circumstances, in 2020? 

When exactly during the last six years do you think it would've behooved Wren Baker to fire the head football coach? Genuine question.

You are correct that we shouldn't have expected much from SL this year. That is true. 

We're going to lose games regardless. This team isn't doing anything much better than 2-10/3-9 at best. As I stated in the OP, Wren has a history of carefully choosing the right avenues of success for literally every sport at NT. There is no track record of him failing at football leadership here or anywhere during his career. Give him a chance to play his cards and get the train back on the tracks, and if he doesn't, then criticizing WB is valid. Right now it is not.

[Travis]

41 minutes ago, WanderingEagle said:

Should we have fired him after making a bowl, yes even despite the circumstances, in 2020?

Yes. 

[WanderingEagle]

23 minutes ago, Travis said:

Yes. 

Nobody was getting fired for making a bowl during a COVID year. If UNT goes 4-8 in 2020 with normal life circumstances maybe you let him go. But we were one of the best offenses in college football last year and made a bowl during a pandemic. There's just no justification for letting a coach go with that at the time.

[Travis]

27 minutes ago, WanderingEagle said:

Nobody was getting fired for making a bowl during a COVID year. If UNT goes 4-8 in 2020 with normal life circumstances maybe you let him go. But we were one of the best offenses in college football last year and made a bowl during a pandemic. There's just no justification for letting a coach go with that at the time.

It is far more than that. With the previous year included, you could already tell he had no control of the team. Everyone had to deal with covid so that is a weak excuse. He just sucked. 
and the best offense is a tired line. Look at it all in context and we were actually a very mediocre offense. Our points came in meaningless minutes in the second half after the game was already out of hand. And the other team called off the dogs. When it mattered, we did nothing. And it has been that way for the past three years (including this one). 
there is a complete justification for letting him go when he has for several years been at the bottom of the conference while getting paid the most. If you accept the terms, then you accept the expectation of being at the top. 
furthermore, he already went through several rounds of coaches two years ago so when he tried it yet again the crosshairs are no longer on the assistants. They are on him.  It is and was justified if a move was made this past year. He lost control of the team. It was obvious and this year only cements it. 

[WanderingEagle]

6 minutes ago, Travis said:

It is far more than that. With the previous year included, you could already tell he had no control of the team. Everyone had to deal with covid so that is a weak excuse. He just sucked. 
and the best offense is a tired line. Look at it all in context and we were actually a very mediocre offense. Our points came in meaningless minutes in the second half after the game was already out of hand. And the other team called off the dogs. When it mattered, we did nothing. And it has been that way for the past three years (including this one). 
there is a complete justification for letting him go when he has for several years been at the bottom of the conference while getting paid the most. If you accept the terms, then you accept the expectation of being at the top. 
furthermore, he already went through several rounds of coaches two years ago so when he tried it yet again the crosshairs are no longer on the assistants. They are on him.  It is and was justified if a move was made this past year. He lost control of the team. It was obvious and this year only cements it. 

I agree with literally everything you said. However, yes our offense was inflated by Darden, but we weren't losing BECAUSE of our offense. 

Once again though, there wasn't a logic behind firing him in 2019 and you can't fire a HC who made a bowl in 2020.

[Travis]

6 hours ago, WanderingEagle said:

I agree with literally everything you said. However, yes our offense was inflated by Darden, but we weren't losing BECAUSE of our offense. 

Once again though, there wasn't a logic behind firing him in 2019 and you can't fire a HC who made a bowl in 2020.

The bowl was not deserved. We had a losing record and they had to fill it. Bowls are meaningless these days. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Travis

[meanJewGreen]

29 minutes ago, Travis said:

The bowl was not deserved. We had a losing record and they had to fill it. Bowls are meaningless these days. 

Kind of agree with you there. Plus we got our butt kicked. Even the army one the first year was a little odd.

I trust Wren will make the right decisions. He’s proven it in the past. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

7 hours ago, WanderingEagle said:

I agree with literally everything you said. However, yes our offense was inflated by Darden, but we weren't losing BECAUSE of our offense. 

Once again though, there wasn't a logic behind firing him in 2019 and you can't fire a HC who made a bowl in 2020.

This is an odd feather to put in Littrell's cap.

There's a huge difference between "made a bowl", as in, your team earned a bowl appearance by winning 6 or more games... VS just happened to be a team that didn't want to quarantine during bowl season with a 4-5 record!

Are you really trying to justify 2020's results with the bowl game that we quite obviously had ZERO BUSINESS playing in?

[untbowler]

12 hours ago, WanderingEagle said:

This is literally the most important point of the entire post.

People just downvoting me because they're mad we're losing. I forgot Wren Baker was our offense quality control coach. Christ.

 

You have to literally convince some fans that WB didn't hire Littrell. He hasn't made a football head coaching hire. It's ridiculous how quick people are to jump the gun and blame him before he even gets the chance to fix things.

WB gave SL the extension even after he flirted with KSU, failed to prep the team for the New Mexico bowl and got embarrassed in the Bowl game again, by a Utah State team without a coaching staff. The extension is on WB and he needs to fix the issue he helped create now by giving an extension. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by untbowler

[UNTcrazy727]

On 10/16/2021 at 6:44 PM, Army of Dad said:

Obligatory reminder that he allowed Benford to coach every game on his contract…

And how did that hurt the program long term? Hint: IT DIDNT

[NorthTexasWeLove]

10 hours ago, WanderingEagle said:

He's had years? Seriously?
So you're saying we should have fired Seth after 2019, fresh after back to back 9 win seasons? Should we have fired him after making a bowl, yes even despite the circumstances, in 2020? 

When exactly during the last six years do you think it would've behooved Wren Baker to fire the head football coach? Genuine question.

You are correct that we shouldn't have expected much from SL this year. That is true. 

We're going to lose games regardless. This team isn't doing anything much better than 2-10/3-9 at best. As I stated in the OP, Wren has a history of carefully choosing the right avenues of success for literally every sport at NT. There is no track record of him failing at football leadership here or anywhere during his career. Give him a chance to play his cards and get the train back on the tracks, and if he doesn't, then criticizing WB is valid. Right now it is not.

This has been a sinking ship for running years, yes. Mason Fine was holding this team together by having to outscore most teams we were fortunate enough to beat. Defense was never prioritized, never. Best win of the SL era was at home vs Army. Did you see our defense in that game? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. These results were inevitable, if you were paying attention. Defense being neglected + never finding a suitable replacement for MF while having 3 years to do so = our current situation. 

[Side.Show.Joe]

11 hours ago, WanderingEagle said:

He's had years? Seriously?
So you're saying we should have fired Seth after 2019, fresh after back to back 9 win seasons? Should we have fired him after making a bowl, yes even despite the circumstances, in 2020? 

When exactly during the last six years do you think it would've behooved Wren Baker to fire the head football coach? Genuine question.

You are correct that we shouldn't have expected much from SL this year. That is true. 

We're going to lose games regardless. This team isn't doing anything much better than 2-10/3-9 at best. As I stated in the OP, Wren has a history of carefully choosing the right avenues of success for literally every sport at NT. There is no track record of him failing at football leadership here or anywhere during his career. Give him a chance to play his cards and get the train back on the tracks, and if he doesn't, then criticizing WB is valid. Right now it is not.

You and a lot of other people don't want to hear this but, I'm going to say it anyway....

The 2018 season was an illusion. We were the worst 9 win team in all of the FBS in 2018. We beat no one. Below, is our record that season with the final records of every team we faced.

2018

W vs. SMU (5-7)

W vs. Inc Word (FCS)

W vs. Arkansas (2-10)

W vs. Liberty (6-6)

L vs. LT (7-5)

W vs. UTEP (1-11)

W vs. Southern Miss (6-5) THIS IS THE ONLY TEAM WE BEAT WITH A WINNING RECORD IN 2018, AND THE LAST WINNING TEAM LITTRELL HAS BEATEN

L vs. UAB (11-3)

W vs. Rice (2-10)

L vs. ODU (4-8)

W vs. FAU (5-7)

W vs. UTSA (3-9)

NEW MEXICO BOWL

L vs. Utah State (11-2)

 

The writing was on the wall in 2018. People just didn't want to see it. At the time I had concern, but didn't want to rain on everyone's parade, and be a bad fan. I've moved past caring what people think. I thought Baker must be seeing these stats and numbers. But he handed out the extension, and I hoped for the best. By 2019, COIVD hit and no one was going to be held accountable for anything (totally understandable under the situation). But, our lines were still weak. Littrell had yet to develop a replacement for Fine. And, Littrell still couldn't figure out how to coach defense. Littrell should have been gone before the start of the 2020 season. That is just the truth. People can get mad because they want to believe we did something in 2018, but we really didn't do much at all. The 2018 season is the illusion that placed us where we are now. Like it or not, that is the truth.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Side.Show.Joe

[PlummMeanGreen]

1 minute ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

You and a lot of other people don't want to hear this but, I'm going to say it any way....

The 2018 season was an illusion. We were the worst 9 win team in all of the BFS in 2018. We beat no one. Below, is our record that season with the final records of every team we faced.

2018

W vs. SMU (5-7)

W vs. Inc Word (FCS)

W vs. Arkansas (2-10)

W vs. Liberty (6-6)

L vs. LT (7-5)

W vs. UTEP (1-11)

W vs. Southern Miss (6-5) THIS IS THE ONLY TEAM WE BEAT WITH A WINNING RECORD IN 2018, AND THE LAST WINNING TEAM LITTRELL HAS BEATEN

L vs. UAB (11-3)

W vs. Rice (2-10)

L vs. ODU (4-8)

W vs. FAU (5-7)

W vs. UTSA (3-9)

NEW MEXICO BOWL

L vs. Utah State (11-2)

 

The writing was on the wall in 2018. People just didn't want to see it. At the time I had concern, but didn't want to rain on everyone's parade, and be a bad fan. I've moved past caring what people think. I thought Baker must be seeing these stats and numbers. But he handed out the extension, and I hoped for the best. By 2019, COIVD hit and no one was going to be held accountable for anything (totally understandable under the situation). But, our lines were still weak. Littrell had yet to develop a replacement for Fine. And, Littrell still couldn't figure out how to coach defense. Littrell should have been gone before the start of the 2020 season. That is just the truth. People can get mad because they want to believe we did something in 2018, but we really didn't do much at all. The 2018 season is the illusion that placed us where we are now. Like it or not, that is the truth.

All points well taken, Side.Show.Joe.  
Great to know we have such passionate fans on GMG. 
 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

2 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

You and a lot of other people don't want to hear this but, I'm going to say it any way....

The 2018 season was an illusion. We were the worst 9 win team in all of the BFS in 2018. We beat no one. Below, is our record that season with the final records of every team we faced.

2018

W vs. SMU (5-7)

W vs. Inc Word (FCS)

W vs. Arkansas (2-10)

W vs. Liberty (6-6)

L vs. LT (7-5)

W vs. UTEP (1-11)

W vs. Southern Miss (6-5) THIS IS THE ONLY TEAM WE BEAT WITH A WINNING RECORD IN 2018, AND THE LAST WINNING TEAM LITTRELL HAS BEATEN

L vs. UAB (11-3)

W vs. Rice (2-10)

L vs. ODU (4-8)

W vs. FAU (5-7)

W vs. UTSA (3-9)

NEW MEXICO BOWL

L vs. Utah State (11-2)

 

The writing was on the wall in 2018. People just didn't want to see it. At the time I had concern, but didn't want to rain on everyone's parade, and be a bad fan. I've moved past caring what people think. I thought Baker must be seeing these stats and numbers. But he handed out the extension, and I hoped for the best. By 2019, COIVD hit and no one was going to be held accountable for anything (totally understandable under the situation). But, our lines were still weak. Littrell had yet to develop a replacement for Fine. And, Littrell still couldn't figure out how to coach defense. Littrell should have been gone before the start of the 2020 season. That is just the truth. People can get mad because they want to believe we did something in 2018, but we really didn't do much at all. The 2018 season is the illusion that placed us where we are now. Like it or not, that is the truth.

I brought these very points up in 2018 and I was treated as the anti-Christ by just about everyone. Defense has been completely neglected, completely in every sense of the word. We outscored bad teams in the SL era in 2017 and 2018. When average teams came through the schedule we struggled. When above average teams came through we were throttled. This isn't a secret, but it always needs to be pointed out so the fence sitters see it. 

[Side.Show.Joe]

2 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I brought these very points up in 2018 and I was treated as the anti-Christ by just about everyone. Defense has been completely neglected, completely in every sense of the word. We outscored bad teams in the SL era in 2017 and 2018. When average teams came through the schedule we struggled. When above average teams came through we were throttled. This isn't a secret, but it always needs to be pointed out so the fence sitters see it. 

Yes, you and a few others brought it up, but were berated by "Old Denton". I apologize for not speaking up more vocally at the time. No more. Things must change.

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

19 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

You and a lot of other people don't want to hear this but, I'm going to say it anyway....

The 2018 season was an illusion. We were the worst 9 win team in all of the FBS in 2018. We beat no one. Below, is our record that season with the final records of every team we faced.

2018

W vs. SMU (5-7)

W vs. Inc Word (FCS)

W vs. Arkansas (2-10)

W vs. Liberty (6-6)

L vs. LT (7-5)

W vs. UTEP (1-11)

W vs. Southern Miss (6-5) THIS IS THE ONLY TEAM WE BEAT WITH A WINNING RECORD IN 2018, AND THE LAST WINNING TEAM LITTRELL HAS BEATEN

L vs. UAB (11-3)

W vs. Rice (2-10)

L vs. ODU (4-8)

W vs. FAU (5-7)

W vs. UTSA (3-9)

NEW MEXICO BOWL

L vs. Utah State (11-2)

 

The writing was on the wall in 2018. People just didn't want to see it. At the time I had concern, but didn't want to rain on everyone's parade, and be a bad fan. I've moved past caring what people think. I thought Baker must be seeing these stats and numbers. But he handed out the extension, and I hoped for the best. By 2019, COIVD hit and no one was going to be held accountable for anything (totally understandable under the situation). But, our lines were still weak. Littrell had yet to develop a replacement for Fine. And, Littrell still couldn't figure out how to coach defense. Littrell should have been gone before the start of the 2020 season. That is just the truth. People can get mad because they want to believe we did something in 2018, but we really didn't do much at all. The 2018 season is the illusion that placed us where we are now. Like it or not, that is the truth.

Completely agree with you. Whether it's here or on any of the team's social media pages, you can't bad mouth this team an iota or you are a garbage fan, you have unrealistic expectations, get downvoted to oblivion, etc. The biggest red flag for me that season was when we barely beat a winless and bottom of the barrel UTEP team.

Edited October 18, 2021 by UNT Texas Hooligan

[MeanGreenTexan]

38 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I brought these very points up in 2018 and I was treated as the anti-Christ by just about everyone. Defense has been completely neglected, completely in every sense of the word. We outscored bad teams in the SL era in 2017 and 2018. When average teams came through the schedule we struggled. When above average teams came through we were throttled. This isn't a secret, but it always needs to be pointed out so the fence sitters see it. 

You can't say "completely neglected", because some of the best recruiting over this span has come on the defensive side of the ball.   Reff's defense was bad in 2019, but I'm not 100% sure his system was the problem (it was decent in 2018).
Obviously Bowen burned the whole thing to the ground last year, and Bennett is having a hard time rebuilding, but there are PLAYERS on that side of the ball.

[Mike Jackson]

14 hours ago, WanderingEagle said:

You have to literally convince some fans that WB didn't hire Littrell. He hasn't made a football head coaching hire.

You are absolutely right.  BUT that has NEVER been the point.  Either Wren Baker authorized that extension and salary bump or he went a long with it.  It was a horrible move because while a little bonus was warranted he had not done anything worthy of being the top paid HC in CUSA.  I expect the athletic department leadership not to fall hype or be pressured by fans to make a bad financial move.  No one would have taken Wren Baker to task if Seth turn down a very modest raise with one year tacked on to his deal and when to a P5 school.  We have the resources to survive a “hot coach” leaving for a P5 job.  We don’t have the resources fire a coach like LSU just did.  ( I get it he was fired for more than just football performance).   We aren’t ULM or NMSU and we shouldn’t be extending coaches at the top salary in the conference without a bowl win, conference, or even a close hard fought performance in a conference title game.  All the excuses of why we can’t win at the G5 level here are gone.  

[southsideguy]

Do you think WB and SL are having discussions about his and this team performance on the field.   Just nothing coming out of the AD these days.

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

Just now, southsideguy said:

Do you think WB and SL are having discussions about his and this team performance on the field.   Just nothing coming out of the AD these days.

It would be the biggest white elephant in the history of the world if they aren't discussing this in their meetings. I'm sure they are discussing it, they are just tied with their hands behind their back because of SL buyout so nothing can be done until the end of the season.