UNT Football Has Quit on Us

[ADLER]

2 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

I don't know Rick. But when I see a guy with 2 post telling me "you're done and new fans await", it sounds like a new fan. I'm glad Rick cares about the program too, and I appreciate his commitment to UNT. We just have different views on the best path forward. I don't discourage opinions and would never encourage any of our fans to leave. We need all the support we can get.

You gave the "I'm done. Nothing about this is redeemable. I'm taking my ball and going home" speech. Believe me, we've all felt that way, but on the board somebody is always going to respond "to not let the door hit ya..." Every day is an airing of grievances on gomeangreen.com

Forget it and don't ever let it bother you. Being a North Texas fan is, as our alum Don Henley said "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

[ADLER]

On 10/16/2021 at 10:24 PM, MAX KOCH said:

Everyone stay home next week. 

Empty stands speak volumes!!!!!!

UNT will lose every remaining game. 

This will be my first time to miss a game in 11 years.

Hell I drove to Columbia MO. last week. 

I'm done and I'm one of the freak show fans. 

Don't ever go inside Apogee until Littrell is gone. 

Well 

Maybe go to the UTSA game and witness a good Conf. USA team and coach.....

 

I saw y'all at the UTSA game and your group was having a blast. BTW, we love the party van.

[greenminer]

I don't think anyone is ignoring SL's past.  I think we are optimistic that he has figured something out, and want to see the immediate future unfold.  No contract extensions.  No new bonuses.  Just let another contracted year play out.

Are you just not interested in an improved SL? Why does the idea of a learned excellence seemingly not concern you?

I'm not interested in teaching someone his job, you say.
...well, neither are we.  We're both interested in winning, which is what he is doing now.

If I managed a hired person for a year that was about to get fired, and witnessed him turn the corner and start excelling, I'm going to hold off on the decision.  Start building up his responsibilities and see what happens.

Edited December 5, 2021 by greenminer

[Cr1028]

22 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I don't think anyone is ignoring SL's past.  I think we are optimistic that he has figured something out, and want to see the immediate future unfold.  No contract extensions.  No new bonuses.  Just let another contracted year play out.

Are you just not interested in an improved SL? Why does the idea of a learned excellence seemingly not concern you?

I'm not interested in teaching someone his job, you say.
...well, neither are we.  We're both interested in winning, which is what he is doing now.

If I managed a hired person for a year that was about to get fired, and witnessed him turn the corner and start excelling, I'm going to hold off on the decision.  Start building up his responsibilities and see what happens.

Well said.

[vpackrats]

I'm guessing you want a do-over on this hot take prediction?  

It's spot on, other than UNT winning every remaining game.  😉

[greenminer]

6 minutes ago, vpackrats said:

I'm guessing you want a do-over on this hot take prediction?  

It's spot on, other than UNT winning every remaining game.  😉

His last gmg.com visit was November 4th.  Hope @MAX KOCH found his way back.

Edited December 5, 2021 by greenminer

[El Paso Eagle]

3 hours ago, greenminer said:

I don't think anyone is ignoring SL's past.  I think we are optimistic that he has figured something out, and want to see the immediate future unfold.  No contract extensions.  No new bonuses.  Just let another contracted year play out.

Are you just not interested in an improved SL? Why does the idea of a learned excellence seemingly not concern you?

I'm not interested in teaching someone his job, you say.
...well, neither are we.  We're both interested in winning, which is what he is doing now.

If I managed a hired person for a year that was about to get fired, and witnessed him turn the corner and start excelling, I'm going to hold off on the decision.  Start building up his responsibilities and see what happens.

Good points. However, not ready to say he was excelling

[97and03]

SL is here for another year. Firing him after the bowl seems like it would be too late. 
As far as the acrimony between the two sides, I recommend we not try to measure our fandom dicks and just root for a bowl win. 

[Side.Show.Joe]

12 hours ago, ADLER said:

You gave the "I'm done. Nothing about this is redeemable. I'm taking my ball and going home" speech. Believe me, we've all felt that way, but on the board somebody is always going to respond "to not let the door hit ya..." Every day is an airing of grievances on gomeangreen.com

Forget it and don't ever let it bother you. Being a North Texas fan is, as our alum Don Henley said "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave."

Totally out of context. I clearly stated that I was done supporting Littrell as our coach and I want him gone. Nothing about that has changed despite picking up a few wins over bums. I never implied I was leaving the fan base with my ball. After the bowl game, Wren needs to make the right move and bring in a coach that can lead us into the American. We are a family, and like all families we have are differences.

[El Paso Eagle]

9 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

Totally out of context. I clearly stated that I was done supporting Littrell as our coach and I want him gone. Nothing about that has changed despite picking up a few wins over bums. I never implied I was leaving the fan base with my ball. After the bowl game, Wren needs to make the right move and bring in a coach that can lead us into the American. We are a family, and like all families we have are differences.

Great points. Some seem to think if you do not embrace Seth as the the right coach for UNT then you are not "a real fan."

[shaft]

This thread reminds me why I got off this board a few years ago.  The same group of unrealistic fools, who double down on their bull sh!t when called out by explaining how they are real fans.

Listen up youngsters (who aren't actually on this board, because students don't post on message boards and most of these folks are north of 40.)  This board is full of the same people that defended the tv thief, hated Dickey because he got their racist frat kicked off campus, drooled all of the high school coach, and proclaimed a new dynasty under Mac.  But hey, they're the real fans because despite how wrong they are, they still support their alma mater (as if they are the only fans in the country that do so).

Edited December 6, 2021 by shaft

[northtexassigep]

1 hour ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

Totally out of context. I clearly stated that I was done supporting Littrell as our coach and I want him gone. Nothing about that has changed despite picking up a few wins over bums. I never implied I was leaving the fan base with my ball. After the bowl game, Wren needs to make the right move and bring in a coach that can lead us into the American. We are a family, and like all families we have are differences.

Firing the guy team is playing for and winning for would be the most counter productive thing we could do right now. We have a young talented team and unless you want them all in the transfer portal we need to keep Seth. Good chance next years team wins 8+ Games and everyone here is team Seth again. 

[PlummMeanGreen]

1 hour ago, shaft said:

This thread reminds me why I got off this board a few years ago.  The same group of unrealistic fools, who double down on their bull sh!t when called out by explaining how they are real fans.

Listen up youngsters (who aren't actually on this board, because students don't post on message boards and most of these folks are north of 40.)  This board is full of the same people that defended the tv thief, hated Dickey because he go their racist frat kicked off campus, drooled all of the high school coach, and proclaimed a new dynasty under Mac.  But hey, they're the real fans because despite how wrong they are, they still support their alma mater (as if they are the only fans in the country that do so).

Well said, shaft.

Hey Side Show Joe, you know if you get tired of being a GMG.com witch-hunted punching bag you can erase this thread?  
There is a click on this board who run off more fans than they will ever attract. Hopefully, they are not running off the kind of recruits that could raise our ship to the level they purport to want. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

[Side.Show.Joe]

On 12/5/2021 at 10:26 AM, PlummMeanGreen said:

Well said, shaft.

Hey Side Show Joe, you know if you get tired of being a GMG.com witch-hunted punching bag you can erase this thread?  
There is a click on this board who run off more fans than they will ever attract. Hopefully, they are not running off the kind of recruits that could raise our ship to the level they purport to want. 

I know Old Denton would love for me to delete this thread and be content with losing, but that's never going to happen. The players didn't quit, and played hard (not always smart) for the remainder of the season. I'll give them credit, and under a better coach they could be a winning team. Talent is not the reason our programs is mediocre. Littrell is just the wrong coach to lead our program foreword. I'll keep telling the truth until we have the right coach, and I don't care if it makes me the witch-hunted punching bag of this board.

[wardly]

On 10/15/2021 at 9:13 PM, untjim1995 said:

Well, one way or another, it will get proven out which way it’s gonna go.

Ive said all along—for a year, actually—that this schedule is just way too tough for where we are right now and that the best we could do was 4-8. These games from SMU thru Liberty have always been unwinnable. Always. It’s been my belief that SL will only be judged on getting to 4 wins again. The last 5 games are his test and he knows it.

Well there are only so many Southland Conference games you can schedule in one  season. The last 5 games were against {DRUM ROLL PLEASE } Rice,So. Miss,UTEP, FIU, and UTSA. The win against the over rated Roadrunners was unexpected but against the wins against 4 cream puffs was not. Regarding Liberty, they lost to ULM, power house of the SBC.

[Cr1028]

31 minutes ago, wardly said:

Well there are only so many Southland Conference games you can schedule in one  season. The last 5 games were against {DRUM ROLL PLEASE } Rice,So. Miss,UTEP, FIU, and UTSA. The win against the over rated Roadrunners was unexpected but against the wins against 4 cream puffs was not. Regarding Liberty, they lost to ULM, power house of the SBC.

We were a blown safety call from beating Liberty.

[Side.Show.Joe]

On 12/24/2021 at 2:35 PM, Cr1028 said:

We were a blown safety call from beating Liberty.

ULM beat liberty the week before they beat us. UNT was up 20 to 14 on Liberty at halftime. Liberty our scored UNT 21 to 6 in the second half. The game never should have come down to the safety call. We were a bad head coach away from beating Liberty. That's just the truth.

And if our athletic department keeps Littrell for another season, it just proves UNT football has quit on us.

[greenminer]

45 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

it just proves UNT football has quit on us.

I don't agree with them, but if they keep SL it's because they somehowsomeway think he is our best option to be as successful as possible in 2022.  Or we're broke.  Or there's a guy they really want that is one more year away.

There are tons of illogical, frustrating reasons to keep SL.  But an AD that has quit on the program? nah.

[Side.Show.Joe]

39 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I don't agree with them, but if they keep SL it's because they somehowsomeway think he is our best option to be as successful as possible in 2022.  Or we're broke.  Or there's a guy they really want that is one more year away.

There are tons of illogical, frustrating reasons to keep SL.  But an AD that has quit on the program? nah.

No, the athletic department isn't quitting on the program. I wasn't implying that. But, if they keep Littrell they will be continuing to throw good money after bad.

But my main point is... by keeping Littrell, they are quitting on the majority of our fan base. Despite the "Old Denton" die hard posters around here, the majority of our fans that fill Apogee to near 30,000, don't want Littrell anymore, and our attendance will reflect it. We had an average of around 16,000 fans show up last season. A large portion have already walked away. I get a lot of down votes around here, but I don't get 16,000 down votes. Most of the fans that attend our games don't post on this board. There are far more fans that want Seth gone, than want him around in 2022, and their attendance, or lack there of, is their voice.

The athletic department could keep Seth, but that will come at a cost.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Side.Show.Joe

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

No, the athletic department isn't quitting on the program. I wasn't implying that. But, if they keep Littrell they will be continuing to throw good money after bad.

But my main point is... by keeping Littrell, they are quitting on the majority of our fan base. Despite the "Old Denton" die hard posters around here, the majority of our fans that fill Apogee to near 30,000, don't want Littrell anymore, and our attendance will reflect it. We had an average of around 16,000 fans show up last season. A large portion have already walked away. I get a lot of down votes around here, but I don't get 16,000 down votes. Most of the fans that attend our games don't post on this board. There are far more fans that want Seth gone, than want him around in 2022, and their attendance, or lack there of, is their voice.

The athletic department could keep Seth, but that will come at a cost.

You have a lot of animosity toward one man. The absent fans you are talking about don’t give a damn about Seth Littrell, Justin Fuente, or any other coaching possibilities we have. They never have cared. They want to watch a team that is winning. I will go full Joe Namath on you and guarantee you if we go 4-0 in OOC games, like I expect us to, we will draw at least 20k for our first home conference game.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Cr1028

[Side.Show.Joe]

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

You have a lot of animosity toward one man. The absent fans you are talking about don’t give a damn about Seth Littrell, Justin Fuente, or any other coaching possibilities we have. They never have cared. They want to watch a team that is winning. I will go full Joe Namath on you and guarantee you if we go 4-0 in OOC games, like I expect us to, we will draw at least 20k for our first home conference game.

I have animosity towards no one. My frustration is totally based on our lack of progress and unwillingness to correct the problem. Seth just happens to be the coach. The buck stops with him. If my mother ran our football program into the ground, I'd be calling for her to be fired. This isn't personal.

Of course those fans care. That's why they do show up when we win and stay home when we suck. After the Miami OH loss, those fans that you claim "don't care" openly vented their frustrations with the direction of the program. As the games was winding down and as we were walking back to our car, many openly called for Littrell to be fired. They just don't get on this board and post it.

We are not going 4-0 in OOC next season. SMU owns Littrell. Big Game Seth is 1-5 against the ponies. Memphis was a 6-6 AAC program this past season, and the game is in their stadium. We should be able to beat UNLV, but that game is in Vegas, so we could be a hard fought game. Our buy-a-win FCS game against Texas Southern is the only OOC contest that I consider to be a lock. 2-2 is a much more realistic OOC record if Littrell remains our coach, and 15,000 for our first conference game would seem much more likely.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Side.Show.Joe

[NT80]

On 12/4/2021 at 8:43 PM, greenminer said:

If I managed a hired person for a year that was about to get fired, and witnessed him turn the corner and start excelling, I'm going to hold off on the decision.  Start building up his responsibilities and see what happens.

Losing at home to Miami-Ohio by two TDs (who had not beat an FBS OOC opponent in 13 years), is not excelling at coaching football.   A 37-38 record in 6 seasons is not excelling at coaching football.

[Cr1028]

6 hours ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

Of course those fans care. That's why they do show up when we win and stay home when we suck. After the Miami OH loss, those fans that you claim "don't care" openly vented their frustrations with the direction of the program. As the games was winding down and as we were walking back to our car, many openly called for Littrell to be fired. They just don't get on this board and post it.

You are talking about two different groups of fans. The ones walking out disgusted after bowl (I was one of them) are mostly the same ones that were excited as hell we beat down UTSA.

The fans that push our attendance north of 20k are the ones that only show up when we are winning noticeably and that group doesn’t care who is the coach at any given time.

The bowl group that you and I are in, we follow more closely. We care enough to know the coach’s name, record, and history. We also put the desire to win above personality. We have placed trust in someone who has proven to be very successful at scouting talent thus far in his budding career in athletic administration. If he has good reason to think Littrell needs to be back next year, we have to accept that he truly believes that is what is best for our football program (and athletic department for that matter) in this very moment. Wren is not going to throw his own career down the toilet to prop up a guy he never hired, no way. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

… Wren is not going to throw his own career down the toilet to prop up a guy he never hired, no way. 

I agree here.  And with each passing day, it appears as though Wren’s not going to let him go.   So now we need to turn our focus towards the new QB coach, who’d better be a big time difference maker.  We cannot go out & hire some dude who was on a Briles staff one time & expect anything to change.   The Bennett hire was that home run last offseason.   Who’s it gonna be this year?

[Side.Show.Joe]

1 hour ago, Cr1028 said:

You are talking about two different groups of fans. The ones walking out disgusted after bowl (I was one of them) are mostly the same ones that were excited as hell we beat down UTSA.

The fans that push our attendance north of 20k are the ones that only show up when we are winning noticeably and that group doesn’t care who is the coach at any given time.

The bowl group that you and I are in, we follow more closely. We care enough to know the coach’s name, record, and history. We also put the desire to win above personality. We have placed trust in someone who has proven to be very successful at scouting talent thus far in his budding career in athletic administration. If he has good reason to think Littrell needs to be back next year, we have to accept that he truly believes that is what is best for our football program (and athletic department for that matter) in this very moment. Wren is not going to throw his own career down the toilet to prop up a guy he never hired, no way. 

I have to disagree. I don't know how many fans have accounts here on GoMeanGreen, but I doubt there are 16,000. We played the Frisco Bowl at 2pm on a Thursday afternoon. Most of those UNT fans that showed up for the bowl had to take time off from work and change their Christmas travel plans. They aren't hard core like us, but they came out, and left angry. They may not be as informed as us, but they know UNT has been upgrading their athletics. They know we are moving to the AAC, And, they know Littrell is our coach and he can't win the C-USA title or bowl games.

Wren has hired some outstanding coaches. McCasland and DeLong were home runs. And in my opinion, Wren would've already been hired away by a big time P5 if Littrell wasn't sandbagging our football program. The data just doesn't support keeping Littrell for another season. And I for one am sick and tired of the "give him one more season" argument. I heard it last year. Wren is the AD and will make the choice, but he will also lie with the results too.