UNT head football coaching position

wardly · October 14, 2021

Guys, I would like for us to take off out green tinted glasses and determine if the head coaching position at UNT is a good job or not. The question is not whether it is a good paying job. Le'st remember that since Hayden Fry left in 1978 UNT has fired 8 of its last 9 head coaches [including soome to be terminated Littrell], and has had 12 winning seasons since his departure[43 losing] and is only averaging about 20,000 fans per game in a state of the art stadium. As a side bar, we averaged 16,700 fans per game the last 10 years at Fouts Field. Not much of a R.O.I. for a $70 million dollar investment. Please give reasons for taking one side or another. Also, the million or so UNT graduates in DFW don't count pro or con as history has proven that they don't care about out athletic program. Fire away.

Billy Clyde · October 14, 2021

Well, it pays well and has university resources and support. Excellent facilities. Fertile recruiting territory, with an easy location/school to sell.

Those are strong positives for an up-and-comer looking to make his mark (e.g., baby Briles) or someone looking for a rebound (e.g., Sumlin). Probably not so attractive to someone in a parallel position (e.g., Traylor, Holtz).

El Paso Eagle · October 14, 2021

5 minutes ago, Billy Clyde said:

Well, it pays well and has university resources and support. Excellent facilities. Fertile recruiting territory, with an easy location/school to sell.

Those are strong positives for an up-and-comer looking to make his mark (e.g., baby Briles) or someone looking for a rebound (e.g., Sumlin). Probably not so attractive to someone in a parallel position (e.g., Traylor, Holtz).

I know out potential has been unrealized, but I would debate if the opportunities at UNT are "parallel" to La Tech or UTSA. From a facilities point of view I think there is a big difference. Now that does not mean Holtz or Traylor would be interested, but I would think that within the coaching industry that UNT is a step above.

Wag Tag · October 14, 2021

I believe it is for a number of reasons. First would be Mc's Bowl win in the Cotton Bowl. I did not expect that kind of turn out.(30,000 plus) The UH game to open the stadium, 28,000 plus. BB against San Fran 5,000 plus. I believe the fan base is there with the right product,

Compensation: The next coach could be in the $1.5 to $2m range. Cost of living is very reasonable. Also important is the quality of life the Denton area has to offer is excellent. Keep momma happy.

Leadership: Neal and Wren... enough said

Investment: The donations and involvement from alumni and students have increased. I believe we are one of the few schools in C-USA that under the right circumstances could come up with the $5.6m buyout to join another conference.

Facilities: Strong with the best in C-USA and better than most in AAC. The one major glaring negative to me is the weight room and rehab areas. Wish we would build these now and not keep waiting for the $$$ on the master plan.

Talent: We can and have recruited talented kids.

Expectations: Most want us to be a successful mid major program in all sports including football.

This is to name a few.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Wag Tag

wardly · October 14, 2021

15 minutes ago, Billy Clyde said:

Well, it pays well and has university resources and support. Excellent facilities. Fertile recruiting territory, with an easy location/school to sell.

Those are strong positives for an up-and-comer looking to make his mark (e.g., baby Briles) or someone looking for a rebound (e.g., Sumlin). Probably not so attractive to someone in a parallel position (e.g., Traylor, Holtz).

Just asking, but with a well paying job that has administrative support and facilities in a fertile recruiting area and easy , school to sell, why have we fired every football coach[9] that we have hired since 1980?

6 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

I know out potential has been unrealized, but I would debate if the opportunities at UNT are "parallel" to La Tech or UTSA. From a facilities point of view I think there is a big difference. Now that does not mean Holtz or Traylor would be interested, but I would think that within the coaching industry that UNT is a step above.

Billy Clyde · October 14, 2021

6 minutes ago, wardly said:

Just asking, but with a well paying job that has administrative support and facilities in a fertile recruiting area and easy , school to sell, why have we fired every football coach[9] that we have hired since 1980?

Great question. Maybe we should be discussing this instead?

UNTcrazy727 · October 14, 2021

31 minutes ago, wardly said:

Just asking, but with a well paying job that has administrative support and facilities in a fertile recruiting area and easy , school to sell, why have we fired every football coach[9] that we have hired since 1980?

Probably because the administrative support and facilities have only been around for the last 5-10 years.

El Paso Eagle · October 14, 2021

Let look

Matt Simom - College assistant - No HC experience before
Darrell Dickey - College assistant - No HC experience before
Todd Dodge - High School experiment - Hired HS coordinators
Dan McCarney - P5 retread
Seth Littrel - College assistant - No HC experience before

I would like to see us hire a coach with FCS/FBS HC experience who has shown that they can build. Would like to see - Cartrel (SFA) - Holtz (La Tech) - or Keller (SHSU)

El Paso Eagle · October 14, 2021

15 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

Probably because the administrative support and facilities have only been around for the last 5-10 years.

And cases where maybe bad/negative history is worse than no history

Billy Clyde · October 14, 2021

4 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Let look

Matt Simom - College assistant - No HC experience before

Darrell Dickey - College assistant - No HC experience before

Todd Dodge - High School experiment - Hired HS coordinators

Dan McCarney - P5 retread

Seth Littrel - College assistant - No HC experience before

I would like to see us hire a coach with FCS/FBS HC experience who has shown that they can build. Would like to see - Cartrel (SFA) - Holtz (La Tech) - or Keller (SHSU)

Carthel is unimpressive, Keller is too old, and Holtz won’t come.

wardly · October 14, 2021

26 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

Probably because the administrative support and facilities have only been around for the last 5-10 years.

Assuming we fire Littrell at end of season,his replacement will be our 3rd head football coach in the last 10 years.

emmitt01 · October 15, 2021

1 hour ago, wardly said:

Assuming we fire Littrell at end of season,his replacement will be our 3rd head football coach in the last 10 years.

The job sucks. Is that the answer you are ultimately looking for?

untjim1995 · October 15, 2021

5 minutes ago, emmitt01 said:

The job sucks. Is that the answer you are ultimately looking for?

A job only sucks if you can’t be successful in it.

So maybe it does suck?

ColoradoEagle · October 15, 2021

What a woe is me thread.

Baylor sucked until they didn't. SMU sucked until they didn't. Houston sucked until they didn't. TCU sucked until they didn't.

Like, if your genuine outlook is that UNT can't be successful and forever is a loser because of x,y, and z then I'm not even sure why you're here.

Green Lantern · October 15, 2021

It’s college football. You’re 1 quality coaching hire - especially in a non power conference league - from being relevant. Look at Liberty, Louisiana, UTSA, UAB, ect. Wren gets to hire the next one. His hires in the other sports produce quality results. No reason to think that won’t translate to football - or that it shouldn’t be the fanbase’s expectation.

We just have to stop accepting bad/mediocre as a fan base. There are no more built in excuses. Greatest thing Seth has done here during his tenure is show that well rated recruits can be had at UNT - busting that long standing myth that it’s impossible to recruit here.

UNTLifer · October 15, 2021

3 hours ago, wardly said:

Just asking, but with a well paying job that has administrative support and facilities in a fertile recruiting area and easy , school to sell, why have we fired every football coach[9] that we have hired since 1980?

It has only been well paying with administrative support since SL arrived.

MeanGreenTexan · October 15, 2021

1 hour ago, ColoradoEagle said:

What a woe is me thread.

Baylor sucked until they didn't. SMU sucked until they didn't. Houston sucked until they didn't. TCU sucked until they didn't.

Like, if your genuine outlook is that UNT can't be successful and forever is a loser because of x,y, and z then I'm not even sure why you're here.

18 minutes ago, Green Lantern said:

It’s college football. You’re 1 quality coaching hire - especially in a non power conference league - from being relevant. Look at Liberty, Louisiana, UTSA, UAB, ect. Wren gets to hire the next one. His hires in the other sports produce quality results. No reason to think that won’t translate to football - or that it shouldn’t be the fanbase’s expectation.

We just have to stop accepting bad/mediocre as a fan base. There are no more built in excuses. Greatest thing Seth has done here during his tenure is show that well rated recruits can be had at UNT - busting that long standing myth that it’s impossible to recruit here.

Old School Yes GIF

wardly · October 15, 2021

1 hour ago, emmitt01 said:

The job sucks. Is that the answer you are ultimately looking for?

No, I am asking the question because I don't know the answer. It appears UNT has all the bells and whistles to attract a head coach to lead us to the promise land, but is the job a great opportunity or a graveyard? As an Eagle football fan since 1961 I hope its the former but for the past 41 years its been the latter. Having said that, we now have a state of the art stadium, indoor practice building, state of the art workout equipment, and finely a President who sees athletics as a window to the university and is willing to commit funds to support the athletic department. I see no reason that this should not be a sought after G5 job but have no insight as to what prospective candidates might feel, hence my post.

Got5onIt · October 15, 2021

How does the saying go? Sleeping giant or some thin’ like that?

wardly · October 15, 2021

1 hour ago, ColoradoEagle said:

What a woe is me thread.

Baylor sucked until they didn't. SMU sucked until they didn't. Houston sucked until they didn't. TCU sucked until they didn't.

Like, if your genuine outlook is that UNT can't be successful and forever is a loser because of x,y, and z then I'm not even sure why you're here.

It's not a woe is me thread, its a legitimate question. I didn't say we couldn't be successful, I said that we hadn't been. I asked if a head football coach at UNT is a good job because I don't know. And the reason I am here is because I have followed and financially supported UNT athletics since my freshman year of 1961 and will continue to do so. And yes, I am tired of excuses as to why we cant' and don't win but that is not the point of my question. In summary, expect more or you will get less. Now, do you think the head coaching position at UNT is a good job and will attract inquires from coaches like Kendall Briles [ Just an example. HE seems like a great O.C. who apparently has no Baylor baggage in the coaching world ] or not. That is my only question. Thanks for your interest and support of UNT, Ward White.

MeanGreenTexan · October 15, 2021

8 minutes ago, wardly said:

It's not a woe is me thread, its a legitimate question. I didn't say we couldn't be successful, I said that we hadn't been. I asked if a head football coach at UNT is a good job because I don't know. And the reason I am here is because I have followed and financially supported UNT athletics since my freshman year of 1961 and will continue to do so. And yes, I am tired of excuses as to why we cant' and don't win but that is not the point of my question. In summary, expect more or you will get less. Now, do you think the head coaching position at UNT is a good job and will attract inquires from coaches like Kendall Briles [ Just an example. HE seems like a great O.C. who apparently has no Baylor baggage in the coaching world ] or not. That is my only question. Thanks for your interest and support of UNT, Ward White.

We have to believe there’s a dude out there somewhere who knows he can put it all together here & not be another fired coach. I think there are plenty out there, we just have to find the right one.

ColoradoEagle · October 15, 2021

41 minutes ago, wardly said:

Now, do you think the head coaching position at UNT is a good job and will attract inquires from coaches like Kendall Briles [ Just an example. HE seems like a great O.C. who apparently has no Baylor baggage in the coaching world ] or not. That is my only question. Thanks for your interest and support of UNT, Ward White.

We're one of the largest universities in the country, next to two of the largest cities in the country, in the most sought after recruiting area of the country. Our head coaching position is paid higher than any CUSA school and top 10 among all G5 schools. We have a better football stadium than nearly any other G5 school. We have an IPF, which most G5s don't even have, and it's an amazing one at that. There's absolutely no reason that the job wouldn't be attractive or sought after by many, many coaches.

We've had two coaches since Apogee was built. We all (?) know what happened with McCarney, but at least he got our biggest bowl win so far. Seth has been a disappointment towards the end of his tenure, but has gotten us to four bowls. To me, these are the initial signs of life in our modern era. There's no reason to think the pool of coaches who both want to work with the advantages above and an AD like Wren Baker won't be 14 feet deep.

Edited October 15, 2021 by ColoradoEagle

TIgreen01 · October 15, 2021

We’ve only recently (last 10 years) started really funding football like we WANT TO WIN. Prior we were always just d1cking around.

In that last 10 years we’ve had two coaches hired. They have had their moments, but ultimately both fell apart after key assistants left. Seth was on his way until the KSU fiasco. It could’ve been a big moment. We had a coach supposedly turn down a P5 job and stay at UNT, but the wheels came off instead. I still don’t completely get it, but crap happens.

To answer the question, it’s absolutely a good job now. Expectations from the fan base are low, administrative support and funding is great compared to our peers and facilities are top notch. Basketball is winning and generating positive vibes. It’s all going to come together, eventually, as long as we keep up the support.

PlummMeanGreen · October 15, 2021

6 hours ago, TIgreen01 said:

We’ve only recently (last 10 years) started really funding football like we WANT TO WIN. Prior we were always just d1cking around.

In that last 10 years we’ve had two coaches hired. They have had their moments, but ultimately both fell apart after key assistants left. Seth was on his way until the KSU fiasco. It could’ve been a big moment. We had a coach supposedly turn down a P5 job and stay at UNT, but the wheels came off instead. I still don’t completely get it, but crap happens.

To answer the question, it’s absolutely a good job now. Expectations from the fan base are low, administrative support and funding is great compared to our peers and facilities are top notch. Basketball is winning and generating positive vibes. It’s all going to come together, eventually, as long as we keep up the support.

Great post, TIgreen01! 👍👍
________________________

🦅 Rick Gosselin (Dallas Morning News Sports)
“How can North Texas football emerge from obscurity? Boise State provides a blueprint.”

🦅 ”North Texas another Boise State? Why not?”
(A quote from Norm Hitzges, KTCK 1310 “The Ticket)

No school has had head football coach’s turnover like our ex conference mate Boise State but— most years they just kept on winning (& getting Top 25 rankings) anyway. Their Fiesta Bowl win over OU is still a bowl favorite for many of us.

•••Scroll half way down this link to see the BSU Bronco’s history of Head Football Coach hirings. To me, It’s actually uncanny.

https://cfbalmanac.com/fbs-teams-boise-state-football-history-records-and-database/

👨‍🦯

Edited October 15, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

NorthTexasWeLove · October 15, 2021

There are pros and cons to the job. But what job can we not say that about?

If success or using unt as a stepping stone is the goal of a hire, well then that hire may want to look elsewhere. UNT will not build lasting success until we find our Gary Patterson. Someone 100% committed to unt with a burning rage of hunger for success. Given the day and age we're in, that'll be difficult to mirror. So, go flexbone.