Mountain West or AAC?

[Tom McKrackin]

Which one would you prefer? 

[emmitt01]

Yes

[NT93]

Put down the pipe.  We’re not getting into either.

[shaft]

The new regionalization plan.

First there is no invite to the MWC.  Second there are no signs of the MWC conference expanding into the Central Time Zone.  Third, we tired the Big West it was a failure.  Fourth, the travel times and costs don't make any sense.

Now for the depleted AAC.  Why would we pay exits fess and buy in fees for a conference which media rights about get tanked?  Why pick up the added travel costs and times to go the east coast?  What is the prestige of the depleted AAC to sell to recruits.

The regionalized plan is the CUSA we wanted to get into 15 years ago.   The regional plan is exactly the places we recruit, Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma.   I'll take the smaller footprint means savings and a better chances for the visiting team to help fill the seats.   Our fans are more likely to travel to New Orleans and Memphis than any games on the East Coast.

[Rudy]

I'm amazed the Big West/MWC comparisons are still being made.

[MeanGreenTexan]

9 hours ago, shaft said:

The new regionalization plan.

First there is no invite to the MWC.  Second there are no signs of the MWC conference expanding into the Central Time Zone.  Third, we tired the Big West it was a failure.  Fourth, the travel times and costs don't make any sense.

Now for the depleted AAC.  Why would we pay exits fess and buy in fees for a conference which media rights about get tanked?  Why pick up the added travel costs and times to go the east coast?  What is the prestige of the depleted AAC to sell to recruits.

The regionalized plan is the CUSA we wanted to get into 15 years ago.   The regional plan is exactly the places we recruit, Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma.   I'll take the smaller footprint means savings and a better chances for the visiting team to help fill the seats.   Our fans are more likely to travel to New Orleans and Memphis than any games on the East Coast.

This is such small-time thinking.
First... for now.
Second... there is absolutely buzz that MWC is looking to expand into Texas.
Third...Please read and understand this.
Fourth...Travel costs would be slightly higher (not much, because NT happens to be right next to DFW Airport so flying from DFW -> DEN costs just as much, maybe even less than, DFW -> BHM), but that's what the payout increases are for!   

Media rights definitely going down for AAC.  No argument there... Probably still going to be around $750K-$1mil/school.  What do you think is going to happen to C-USA's $400k/school deal?  Going up?  Who's deal would this new conference look more like?  I'll give you a hint, it's not the higher paying one.  You can't really quantify the prestige & eyes-on NT athletics would get on the national stage playing in MWC though.

Stop relying on other schools coming to Apogee to fill the stands.  If we could just friggin WIN, our own fans will fill the stands.  I promise.   DFW is a bandwagon town, and there are tons of NT alumni waiting for their school to become a winner.   I guarantee you, if NT happened to get ranked (much more attainable winning in the MWC than C-USA or whatever this new thing would be), Apogee would finally get it's sellout.

Again, IF this mashup of schools were to happen, the C-USA schools would love it.  The AAC schools would hate it.  It would be very ideal for NT, ONLY IF A MOVE TO MWC DOESN'T HAPPEN.   And honestly, I would put NT's chances of joining the MWC slightly higher than the AAC agreeing to this proposal.

 

[ColoradoEagle]

The leftovers of the AAC in four years could possibly be: Wichita State, Tulsa, Tulane, ECU, and Temple. 

The leftovers of the MWC in four years could possibly be: SJSU, Fresno State, Nevada, UNLV, Utah State, New Mexico, Wyoming, Colorado State/SDSU, and Air Force.

It's MWC, and it's not even close.

[MrAlien]

UNT checks a lot of boxes for these conferences, the school is in a top media market, athletic facilities are top notch, large size school.  Football may not be doing well at the moment, though the potential is there.  The basketball program has been one of the top mid-major programs in the country the last couple seasons.  I think either conference would have some interest in adding UNT.  

The AAC is depleted and starting to get get desperate for members.  Some think that SMU may not want to share DFW, however with so few schools left and little interest from outside schools, UNT is probably in their top 5.  

The MWC will probably be the top G5 conference, and have expressed an interest in getting back into Texas. 

 

 

 

[Green Otaku]

MWC will be the top G5 when Cincy, Houston, and UCF leave. 

[UNTLifer]

Much will change before the dust begins to settle on all this realignment talk.  For instance, the Big XII may no longer be a "power conference", the SEC may be an even bigger monopoly and the G5/6 schools will fall somewhere with media payouts being extremely different.  My problem with the current MWC, outside of start times, is, personally, I don't care about any of the teams in the conference.  Honestly, I rarely watch any PAC12 games as well.  Not sure why, but they just never interest me.   

[MeanGreenTexan]

8 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Much will change before the dust begins to settle on all this realignment talk.  For instance, the Big XII may no longer be a "power conference", the SEC may be an even bigger monopoly and the G5/6 schools will fall somewhere with media payouts being extremely different.  My problem with the current MWC, outside of start times, is, personally, I don't care about any of the teams in the conference.  Honestly, I rarely watch any PAC12 games as well.  Not sure why, but they just never interest me.   

This is fair, especially with the likes of SJSU & UTSt. & their history (however, both schools have been ranked in the past 3 years!).

I think your interest would pique a little though if one of those schools happened to roll into Apogee with a little number next to them & NT is playing well, or heaven-forbid, we're ranked too!  I bet you'd get into that game a little more than NT VS Rice.

I mean, if SJSU (a perennial 'bottom 10' school) can jump up & play well for a few games one season and get into the top 25, NT certainly could do the same. 
Meanwhile, in C-USA, or whatever the mashup conference would be, a Lane Kiffin-led FAU team can finish on a 10-game win streak, including blowout wins in the CCG & Bowl game, and can't crack the top 25.  Instead, finishing in the "also receiving votes" section behind an Army team that North Texas beat earlier that year.   
Perception is reality.   Perception heavily favors the MWC.

[Monkeypox]

42 minutes ago, Green Otaku said:

MWC will be the top G5 when Cincy, Houston, and UCF leave. 

Nah, the Big12 will be the top G6 when UT-OU are gone from it.

[MeanGreenTexan]

The nice thing about making your poll public, is that you can see who voted for which one.

I'm very interested in @blurbeard's vote & would love to hear from someone who lives in the Olympic Sports forums.  How would the Mean Green do in those arenas, mainly the soccer ladies?  
Because that's an argument that continually comes up over & over ("Flying Olympic Sports teams out West costs too much!").

Edited October 13, 2021 by MeanGreenTexan

[ColoradoEagle]

39 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Not sure why, but they just never interest me.   

Everyone has their teams. To me, the only interesting teams in CUSA are the Texas teams, La Tech, and Southern Miss to a lesser extent. We could play the rest of them for 30 years and I doubt my opinion changes. 

I do think that it's important if we move west that we take at least 1, but preferably 3, Texas/Louisiana schools with us.

Edited October 13, 2021 by ColoradoEagle

[MeanGreenTexan]

10 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

Everyone has their teams. To me, the only interesting teams in CUSA are the Texas teams, La Tech, and Southern Miss to a lesser extent. We could play the rest of them for 30 years and I doubt my opinion changes. 

I do think that it's important if we move west that we take at least 1, but preferably 3, Texas/Louisiana schools with us.

Even if only 1 came along, I'd love to keep scheduling home/homes with the current C-USA West teams in a rotation during non-conference.   
Like, how cool would 2027's schedule be with the following non-conference (Wyoming at Apogee is currently scheduled as a non-conference game, so that would obviously become a conference game): 
VS Texas Tech
@ SMU
VS Rice
@ LATech

Then a conference slate of:
VS Wyoming
@ UNM
VS SDSU
@ UTSA
VS Air Force
@ COSt
VS UTSt
@UNLV

[shaft]

3 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Second... there is absolutely buzz that MWC is looking to expand into Texas.
T
Fourth...Travel costs would be slightly higher (not much, because NT happens to be right next to DFW Airport so flying from DFW -> DEN costs just as much, maybe even less than, DFW -> BHM), but that's what the payout increases are for!   

Media rights definitely going down for AAC.  No argument there... Probably still going to be around $750K-$1mil/school.  What do you think is going to happen to C-USA's $400k/school deal?  Going up?  Who's deal would this new conference look more like?  I'll give you a hint, it's not the higher paying one.  You can't really quantify the prestige & eyes-on NT athletics would get on the national stage playing in MWC though.

Stop relying on other schools coming to Apogee to fill the stands.  If we could just friggin WIN, our own fans will fill the stands.  I promise.   DFW is a bandwagon town, and there are tons of NT alumni waiting for their school to become a winner.   
 

These are non-starters for the MWC vs a regionalized plan.

Buzz = bullsh*t.   There are no credible, sourced articles that say the MWC is expanding.  

Travel.  Your comparison makes the point for regionalization.  The fact the longest travel in the regional conference would be the same as the shortest in the MWC.  It's the trips to coasts that are eliminated in a regional model.

Media rights.  I'll take the $250k revenue hit for the $1M travel savings any day.   The AAC was forced renegotiation headed their way with the exiting teams.  The diminished AAC deal is going to be comparable to a regionalized deal, which will be slightly higher than the current CUSA deal.

Attendance.  We haven't sold the thing out yet, so quit pretending we're just one good season away.  The highest attended games are all against the biggest regional teams.  

[MeanGreenTexan]

9 minutes ago, shaft said:

These are non-starters for the MWC vs a regionalized plan.

Buzz = bullsh*t.   There are no credible, sourced articles that say the MWC is expanding.  

Travel.  Your comparison makes the point for regionalization.  The fact the longest travel in the regional conference would be the same as the shortest in the MWC.  It's the trips to coasts that are eliminated in a regional model.

Media rights.  I'll take the $250k revenue hit for the $1M travel savings any day.   The AAC was forced renegotiation headed their way with the exiting teams.  The diminished AAC deal is going to be comparable to a regionalized deal, which will be slightly higher than the current CUSA deal.

Attendance.  We haven't sold the thing out yet, so quit pretending we're just one good season away.  The highest attended games are all against the biggest regional teams.  

That's weird.   The SEC didn't have articles out there saying they were expanding... but here we are.
You don't see "credible, sourced articles" because that stuff goes on behind the scenes.   You know that.  

Travel.  Again, this is going to be higher.  That's how it is.  We'd know that going in.   NT would have to bite the bullet on that, however, the $-difference between this regional project VS MWC is going to be substantial enough to not only fund the difference, but likely pull in extra.

Media rights.  This is defeatist thinking.  You're looking for savings?   Why?  I guess if all we know is losing (which, it is, sadly), I could see why you'd think this way.  But if NT needs to look for savings, then heck, let's just drop all the way back down to FCS and be the kings of the Southland for pennies on the dollar.

Attendance.  When have we been ranked, or played ranked teams at home while we were playing well??    Of course, when your team sucks, the regional teams are going to be the highest attended games.   We need to get to a point of winning, and not think like we're going to be losers forever... or again, let's just drop down to FCS.  Why spend any money on FBS football at all if we're resigning ourselves to losing forever?   
You're out of your mind if you think a Top 25 North Texas team would not sell out Apogee against a team like Boise St (those tickets would be selling on Stubhub for 3-5X face value).  What's the best this regionalized conference could do?    Top 25 North Texas VS SMU?   We get that opportunity every year anyway in non-conference.

You're forgetting a very important thing:
Perception.   In the minds of Joe Sportsfans (be they NT students, or just regular DFW residents) North Texas moving to the MWC says, "Wow! North Texas is getting serious and now has an opportunity to prove it.  They could be like TCU!"   And to entities like ESPN, SI, FS1, etc... (the creators of the perception) NT beating Fresno St. & SDSU means more than NT beating LATech & UAB.  It just does.

Again, The regionalized thing is a great "plan b" (if the AAC could stop laughing at it), and stands about as good a chance of materializing as NT's MWC invite.

I'll champion NT to the MWC until the MWC formally says "no", or something else materializes (even this plan b, regional thing).   Until then:

[El Paso Eagle]

4 hours ago, Monkeypox said:

Nah, the Big12 will be the top G6 when UT-OU are gone from it.

The Big12 will still be as good, if not better than the Pac12

[Monkeypox]

8 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

The Big12 will still be as good, if not better than the Pac12

On the (football) field for a few years, maybe. In revenue and league value? Not even close.

[shaft]

4 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

 

Attendnce.  When have we been ranked, or played ranked teams at home while we were playing well??    

You're forgetting a very important thing:
Perception.   In the minds of Joe Sportsfans (be they NT students, or just regular DFW residents) North Texas moving to the MWC says, "Wow! North Texas is getting serious and now has an opportunity to prove it.  They could be like TCU!" 

I'll champion NT to the MWC until the MWC formally says "no", or something else materializes (even this plan b, regional thing).   Until then:
 

More bad arguments, but at least this time you admit it just Green Kool Aide.  MeanGreenTexan is just spouting the same green tinted lines we heard with the move from the SBC to CUSA.   Putting all your eggs in the we're going to "move up" and get ranked is laughable.  

 

[MrAlien]

I dont think the MWC will expand unless they loose a school, and there is a good chance of that happening. 

I know this is the football sections, but UNT has really been a basketball school the last couple years, and that could be the key to joining a better conference.  

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, shaft said:

More bad arguments, but at least this time you admit it just Green Kool Aide.  MeanGreenTexan is just spouting the same green tinted lines we heard with the move from the SBC to CUSA.   Putting all your eggs in the we're going to "move up" and get ranked is laughable.  

 

100% agree with all of the arguments you have made in this thread.

No student at UNT gives a crap about MWC teams unless they went to high school with a buddy that plays there. Far more UNT students went to high school with students at Rice, UTSA, and LaTech than at Wyoming or SJSU. The travel involved with the MWC would absolutely make life more difficult for our student athletes, both male and female, across ALL sports, not just football. Finally, and most importantly, getting curb-stomped in the MWC rather than CUSA does absolutely nothing to improve our position. Zero, zilch, nada. A bunch in here are talking best case MWC scenarios. Let us look at our history and be realistic, what is the WORST case scenario if we are in the MWC and can we argue with certainty that we would still be better and not worse off in the MWC if that scenario were to play out.

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 hours ago, shaft said:

More bad arguments, but at least this time you admit it just Green Kool Aide.  MeanGreenTexan is just spouting the same green tinted lines we heard with the move from the SBC to CUSA.   Putting all your eggs in the we're going to "move up" and get ranked is laughable.  

 

Lol, I don’t make bad arguments.

Putting all your eggs in the we’re gonna get cozy with some local schools is defeatist and reeks of Stockholm Syndrome.

Again, your heart’s desire is just as likely (unlikely?) to happen as mine.  Except mine has us winning in a way that gets UNT more interest & sets us up for future success at a higher level.  Join me in wishing the best for our alma mater, not just what’s comfortable.

[MeanGreenTexan]

18 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

100% agree with all of the arguments you have made in this thread.

No student at UNT gives a crap about MWC teams unless they went to high school with a buddy that plays there. Far more UNT students went to high school with students at Rice, UTSA, and LaTech than at Wyoming or SJSU. The travel involved with the MWC would absolutely make life more difficult for our student athletes, both male and female, across ALL sports, not just football. Finally, and most importantly, getting curb-stomped in the MWC rather than CUSA does absolutely nothing to improve our position. Zero, zilch, nada. A bunch in here are talking best case MWC scenarios. Let us look at our history and be realistic, what is the WORST case scenario if we are in the MWC and can we argue with certainty that we would still be better and not worse off in the MWC if that scenario were to play out.

I understand why you think this way.  I’ve been around a while too.  We simply cannot allow this train of thought to win.  We must hope we can do better… because we can!

[UNTcrazy727]

22 hours ago, shaft said:

The new regionalization plan.

First there is no invite to the MWC.  Second there are no signs of the MWC conference expanding into the Central Time Zone.  Third, we tired the Big West it was a failure.  Fourth, the travel times and costs don't make any sense.

Now for the depleted AAC.  Why would we pay exits fess and buy in fees for a conference which media rights about get tanked?  Why pick up the added travel costs and times to go the east coast?  What is the prestige of the depleted AAC to sell to recruits.

The regionalized plan is the CUSA we wanted to get into 15 years ago.   The regional plan is exactly the places we recruit, Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma.   I'll take the smaller footprint means savings and a better chances for the visiting team to help fill the seats.   Our fans are more likely to travel to New Orleans and Memphis than any games on the East Coast.

Ram Nation Radio

Colorado State Athletic director Joe Parker was on a podcast talking realignment and MWC seeking expansion, possibly into Texas.