Can Seth regain your support?

GreenBacker · October 12, 2021

If we beat Marshall this week, lost to Liberty, but then win out and go on to win a bowl game, then he stays and I could get behind it. That would mean so many of the young players were really developing and showing a lot of promise moving forward. Given the amount of money it would take to buy him and a 2nd guaranteed year for Phil, I can’t imagine Wren getting rid of him with that kind of momentum to finish the season. Now…I don’t think there is any way this actually happens, but if so, I would support him staying.

TripleGrad · October 12, 2021

He'd have to win 9 games this season.

What's that? Oh. Well darn, we wish you well on your next venture.

eulessismore · October 12, 2021

Well, it would take a spectacular enough next 3 months to forget the last 3 years. But, if all of a sudden he shows the player development, game planning and game management that no one here has seen this year, he would still have to actually win 7 more games to get this crowd behind him.

I actually think the team has some pretty talented players, but the play calling looks like coaching malpractice. If Littrell offered his resignation midseason, UNT football would probably have little to lose by accepting his offer and letting Patrick Cobbs coach the remainder of the season. Little would be expected of him, but if he won 3 or 4 games, who knows?

MeanGreenTexan · October 12, 2021

7 hours ago, GreenBacker said:

If we beat Marshall this week, lost to Liberty, but then win out and go on to win a bowl game, then he stays and I could get behind it. That would mean so many of the young players were really developing and showing a lot of promise moving forward. Given the amount of money it would take to buy him and a 2nd guaranteed year for Phil, I can’t imagine Wren getting rid of him with that kind of momentum to finish the season. Now…I don’t think there is any way this actually happens, but if so, I would support him staying.

This is where I am.
It would be a miraculous turnaround, complete with a UTSA stunner at the end of the regular season and a bowl game win. He obviously would still have player buy-in, and finally get that bowl game win.

Chances of this happening:

97and03 · October 12, 2021

Get to and win a bowl game and stay. Otherwise…

MGNation92 · October 12, 2021

No. I'm done with him. He would need multiple ten win seasons, multiple bowl wins, and multiple conference championships for me to support him again. He is not a good option for our university anymore. Wish him the best of luck, just not here. We need someone else

Big Z · October 12, 2021

Bowl game or start packing

UNT Texas Hooligan · October 12, 2021

Sorry but winning the Bum F*ck Egypt Bowl against the South Harmon Institute of Technology shouldn't dismiss the years of Littrell being clueless, same coach speak over and over, and general lack of preparedness from this team. Keeping Littrell on will only continue to hurt this program the longer he is in charge, especially with conference re-alignment looming. Really hope leadership don't dismiss years of underachieving just because of one bottom of the barrel bowl win on the first day of bowl season.

MeanGreenTexan · October 12, 2021

1 minute ago, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

Sorry but winning the Bum F*ck Egypt Bowl against the South Harmon Institute of Technology shouldn't dismiss the years of Littrell being clueless, same coach speak over and over, and general lack of preparedness from this team. Keeping Littrell on will only continue to hurt this program the longer he is in charge, especially with conference re-alignment looming. Really hope leadership don't dismiss years of underachieving just because of one bottom of the barrel bowl win on the first day of bowl season.

At the beginning of the season, I'd agree.
But to achieve this feat starting today, you'd have to look at how it unfolded. It would include a 7-1 record over the next 8 games, including wins against either Liberty or UTSA, and a bowl game win. That, to me, would indicate something incredible happened in the locker room, and with Littrell's demeanor, that I would like to see continue. Again, what are the odds of this happening though?? It's just a question of "what would it take..." I think that bar is pretty high, and gets higher with each consecutive loss.

UNT Texas Hooligan · October 12, 2021

6 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

At the beginning of the season, I'd agree.
But to achieve this feat starting today, you'd have to look at how it unfolded. It would include a 7-1 record over the next 8 games, including wins against either Liberty or UTSA, and a bowl game win. That, to me, would indicate something incredible happened in the locker room, and with Littrell's demeanor, that I would like to see continue. Again, what are the odds of this happening though?? It's just a question of "what would it take..." I think that bar is pretty high, and gets higher with each consecutive loss.

Valid points

Withers940 · October 12, 2021

I was a fan of Littrell all the way until this season. Every game, Seth has shown that his team cant come prepared and fired up to any game unless the teams pure athleticism beats the other team (Northwestern State). In my eyes, he would have to win the next 5 of 6 games and put in a competitive performance in the bowl game. His failure to hire an OC/DC that can actually call a competent game, Bennett is the outlier, and his failure to develop someone at QB and many other positions blows my damn mind!

As much as I would love to see him win those 5 of 6 games, he's shown time and time again that he cant prepare the team to come out against .500 plus team and not go in the hole 17-0 in the first quarter. His pure lack of preparation and the fact he is out coached almost every single game has led to 90% of the fan base to lose complete faith in the direction of this team.

MrAlien · October 12, 2021

Coming into this season I thought this would be a 3 win team talent wise, and maybe the coaching staff could find something or someway to win a 4th... I am all for replacing the coach if its an improvement, but I also want to know what the strategy is. Bringing in a new coach will not turn this team into a 6 win team, its going to take a couple recruiting classes to do so, in addition to knowing what to do on the field.

MeanGreenTexan · October 12, 2021

8 minutes ago, MrAlien said:

Coming into this season I thought this would be a 3 win team talent wise, and maybe the coaching staff could find something or someway to win a 4th... I am all for replacing the coach if its an improvement, but I also want to know what the strategy is. Bringing in a new coach will not turn this team into a 6 win team, its going to take a couple recruiting classes to do so, in addition to knowing what to do on the field.

Honestly,
I kinda feel the exact opposite. I thought this team was a 6-7 win team talent wise, and maybe the coaching staff would find something or some way to drop a game or 2.

The recruiting classes have been stellar the past few years. The talent is already here.

GrandGreen · October 12, 2021

I support NT and by extension that means every coach that is currently on staff.

We can and are almost not stop speculating on Littrell's fate at NT. Like a bunch of posters not the record is going to decide whether he is or is not here next year.

Six wins and he is here next year. Four or Five and it will depend on how the team developed, if they look like they are on an upswing, Seph probably will see next season at Denton. Two or three wins and he is definitely the new offensive coordinator somewhere else.

untbowler · October 12, 2021

Nope, when as fans we see the same mistakes in Year 6 that were happening in Year 1, sorry but SL had his chance and has shown that he is not HC material.

TheColonyEagle · October 12, 2021

Sure:

Beat Marshall

Beat Liberty

Beat Rice

Beat So Miss

Beat UTEP

Beat FIU

Beat UTSA

Win Bowl Game

Finish 9-4

Then you can come back next season and coach here in 2022

I’ve been as critical of Littrell as anyone but if he wins the last 8 games that will mean the young talent started figuring it out and a QB figured it out and the D figured it out and the assistant coaches figured it out and Littrell figured it out and the team bought in.

So…sure, just win the last 8 games and he can buy himself another year.

In other words, no he can’t regain my support and he won’t be here next year.

SilverEagle · October 12, 2021

I've never completely supported him. Especially after Lane Kiffin showed him and the team to be nothing more than smoke and mirrors......twice. And then there was Troy and Utah State doing the same thing.

Many on this board don't favor hiring someone without head coaching experience. SL seems to have proven their point.

A good example of the type of coach that we need is Dennis Franchione.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Franchione

Regardless of how anyone on this board feels about Coach Fran, you have to admit that he didn't mind working hard in humble settings. I have always advocated for that kind of coach. Someone who doesn't mind getting his hands dirty and making the most of limited resources. The best example for us was Corkey Nelson and his DC Chuck Mills. They were pretty much a perfect pair. Whatever Corkey lacked, Coach Mills seems to make up for it. Much like coach Fran and Gary Patterson.

bstnsportsfan3 · October 12, 2021

37 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

I've never completely supported him. Especially after Lane Kiffin showed him and the team to be nothing more than smoke and mirrors......twice. And then there was Troy and Utah State doing the same thing.

Many on this board don't favor hiring someone without head coaching experience. SL seems to have proven their point.

A good example of the type of coach that we need is Dennis Franchione.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Franchione

Regardless of how anyone on this board feels about Coach Fran, you have to admit that he didn't mind working hard in humble settings. I have always advocated for that kind of coach. Someone who doesn't mind getting his hands dirty and making the most of limited resources. The best example for us was Corkey Nelson and his DC Chuck Mills. They were pretty much a perfect pair. Whatever Corkey lacked, Coach Mills seems to make up for it. Much like coach Fran and Gary Patterson.

I am all for a new coach but Coach Fran is 100% not the answer.

MrAlien · October 12, 2021

2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Honestly,
I kinda feel the exact opposite. I thought this team was a 6-7 win team talent wise, and maybe the coaching staff would find something or some way to drop a game or 2.

The recruiting classes have been stellar the past few years. The talent is already here.

Good recruiting compared to whom?

UNT has been out recruited by every team they have lost to this year... The last couple classes were not ranked very high in regards to recruiting... Coming into the season the team didnt seem to know who would be playing QB... for me all signs pointed to a 3 win season.

Back on topic, I am fine with replacing the coach, but would like to know whom the team is replacing him with.

MeanGreenTexan · October 12, 2021

25 minutes ago, MrAlien said:

Good recruiting compared to whom?

UNT has been out recruited by every team they have lost to this year... The last couple classes were not ranked very high in regards to recruiting... Coming into the season the team didnt seem to know who would be playing QB... for me all signs pointed to a 3 win season.

Back on topic, I am fine with replacing the coach, but would like to know whom the team is replacing him with.

Compared to teams we're recruiting against.
You're wrong about the rankings. Since Luke Walerius was hired, NT has finished at or near the top of C-USA:

https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/?Conference=C-USA
https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/?Conference=C-USA
https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/?Conference=C-USA

The talent is already here.

trud1966 · October 12, 2021

Could he re-gain my support? Absolutely, IF he could win the next 7 games...That would be an amazing story...But, speaking on behalf of those fans that have lived through the tenures past, we've seen this movie too many times. All of his intentions might very well be noble and he really wants to turn it around. But the plane is in a very bad nose dive....and it's on fire, all of the crew is dead.....And there's a scarey guy dressed as a clown in the co-pilots seat...

When SL got here, man, I had a man crush on the guy...Now that's a coach...Tough, smart, driven...he's gonna get it done...And he's had some success.. And IF he could manage to keep us at 7-5, 8-4 or 9-3 seasons, I'd stay on board...True, no bowl wins yet, but odds are the scales will tip in our favor, eventually, if you keep up those kinds of records.

So for the people (that are likely younger...) that feel like maybe the ship can be "righted" in some miracle way, all of us older guys, speaking from years of experience, it's a math problem that likely cant be solved. Last year was bad...This year is bad....You could let him go, even as soon as now to get a head-start on re-building the future...Or you can wait it out and see how it goes next year....So think about this, after watching last weeks loss, again...

Are you ready to lose the next 6-7 games? Or are you ready to lose the next 18-19 games?

I will fully admit and completely own this...I was one of those guys that repeatedly said "Todd Dodge IS a good coach, he's gonna turn this around, just give him another year!" It just never happened and UNT shouldve parted ways with him way earlier.

If youve ever had a bad employee, that needed to go, but you just keep giving them way too many chances, it's not fair to the company, the customers or the employee.....In Dodges case, keeping him too long wasnt fair to the School, the Fans and even to Todd Dodge... He was let go, and still found a way to come out on top of HS football...Good for him...

I love SL...And it's painful to me, but it's time to make the change...The next couple games will confirm it....Maybe he'll prove me wrong...I certainly hope so...

outoftown · October 12, 2021

I can I magine him getting my support again, although right now, If I were Baker i would be collecting money to get rid of him. But yes if he starts a real series, if he starts getting the team to play more consistent and less undisciplined, I could see it. I mean they beat Marshall and some on this board will already start wondering.

That said, even in such a case the thing that was true before for me becomes even more true now: the next contract needs to seriously lower his salary until he wins a championhsip. He is paid like a championship coach, who perennially is in the championship race, but until he wins one, he simply is overpaid, and his salary needs to start reflecting that at least a little bit better, and the power for buyouts needs to be better for NT. The money can be invested into McCasland and a better OC.

Edited October 12, 2021 by outoftown

TheColonyEagle · October 12, 2021

1 hour ago, SilverEagle said:

I have always advocated for that kind of coach. Someone who doesn't mind getting his hands dirty and making the most of limited resources.

Thing is....we don't have limited resources. Not compared to our peers. We have amazing resources. They're just kicking our butts on the field with less resources. It's all about the head coach. We have everything else.

I don't want someone coming in there thinking we have limited resources. Thinking that way leads to "hey, 8-9 wins is amazing at a place like this....with our limited resources."

I want someone coming in here thinking "with what I have here, 10 wins should be the expectation and we should be a top 5 G5 program"

UNTLifer · October 12, 2021

4 hours ago, Withers940 said:

I was a fan of Littrell all the way until this season. Every game, Seth has shown that his team cant come prepared and fired up to any game unless the teams pure athleticism beats the other team (Northwestern State). In my eyes, he would have to win the next 5 of 6 games and put in a competitive performance in the bowl game. His failure to hire an OC/DC that can actually call a competent game, Bennett is the outlier, and his failure to develop someone at QB and many other positions blows my damn mind!

As much as I would love to see him win those 5 of 6 games, he's shown time and time again that he cant prepare the team to come out against .500 plus team and not go in the hole 17-0 in the first quarter. His pure lack of preparation and the fact he is out coached almost every single game has led to 90% of the fan base to lose complete faith in the direction of this team.

And

2 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

Sure:

Beat Marshall

Beat Liberty

Beat Rice

Beat So Miss

Beat UTEP

Beat FIU

Beat UTSA

Win Bowl Game

Finish 9-4

Then you can come back next season and coach here in 2022

I’ve been as critical of Littrell as anyone but if he wins the last 8 games that will mean the young talent started figuring it out and a QB figured it out and the D figured it out and the assistant coaches figured it out and Littrell figured it out and the team bought in.

So…sure, just win the last 8 games and he can buy himself another year.

In other words, no he can’t regain my support and he won’t be here next year.

I have been a fan of Littrell up until this year. I am tired of him not having answers or the answers he does have point right back at him and he doesn’t acknowledge his failures.
I believe teams reflect the personality of their coach and I am tired of the team coming out and not appearing fired up and ready to go. To come across as intense and a stickler for details early on, this is what our team lacks. This man has more facilities, support, talent than any coach in our history and we continue to show looking I’ll-prepared.
His first coaching staff was strong and outside of a few hires, he has failed to find suitable replacements for those hired away. When he has hired right, Bloesch for instance, he has hurt the team by adding to their responsibilities in an effort to keep them from getting poached. The result with Bloesch has been a decrease in the OL’s performance and poor offensive play calling. This not a knock on Bloesch but a knock on Littrell’s inability to manage the staff correctly.
I would like to see a number of assistants, Bloesch, Cobbs, Bennett, Gush, Mayes retained but they need a new leader that sets the tone.
Another thing, Littrell doesn’t seem invested in NT campus or connected with the students. Traylor was shown on that campus in SA handing out taquitos and connecting with the students. Has SL ever done this? Little things that show he is invested in the university would go a long way.

Edited October 12, 2021 by UNTLifer