Is the MWC Better for UNT

[MeanGreenTexan]

Just now, ADLER said:

So, we either need to move all the small market incredibly distant western schools closer, or fire Judy. 

Which seems fore feasible?

 

The damage is done in C-USA.  Our current media deal gets us virtually no national coverage (which right now, is probably a good thing for us), and will only get worse. 
Meanwhile these two conferences are going to position themselves to get what they can moving forward. Will it be less than what they're currently making?   Absolutely.   Will it still be 3-4X the C-USA payout?   Most likely.

It's easy to get to EVERY SINGLE MWC SCHOOL from DFW outside of Hawaii (and as we've already stated, going to play football in Hawaii every 6 years or so brings it's own perks), & maybe UTSt.

And Judy has been awful for years now...   I don't see any changes coming, sadly.

[TheReal_jayD]

20 minutes ago, ADLER said:

That money is not reduced, IT"S GONE if SDSU, Boise St, Colorado St, and Air Force leave.

You're trying to climb on the Arizona while the torpedo is racing towards it.

 

CUSA has already sunk. Not a good analogy.

 

No guarantee any of those four schools leave

[greenminer]

29 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

I also feel a couple road trips to hawaii would be a good sell in terms of recruiting

I've always felt skeptical of this.

The road trip is long and hard.  Read about it in El Paso for years before I started school in Denton.

[untjim1995]

26 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

B-ball would get 1 trip to Hawaii every other year!
I follow the soccer team on FB.  They recently went out to Hawaii for a game & it looks like they took their time there and got to go all around the island!

Currently, Hawaii is FB only for the MWC, while playing in the Big West for all other sports, so I don't see us ever playing them.

I like the idea of getting away from Judy and CUSA, as long as its with our Texas brethren and/or La Tech.

Lets say BSU goes to the Big XII with Memphis--I think this is very possible. And lets say AFA/CSU/SDSU all go to the AAC. That leaves Hawaii, Nevada, UNLV, Fresno State, San Jose State, Utah State, Wyoming, and New Mexico. If we could go with UTEP, UTSA, and Rice, I'd do it. I'd really do it if we can also get Louisiana Tech and ULL to go with us, too, which gives you 14. And then I hard press Gonzaga and/or St. Mary's to join the league for hoops.

No more F_Us, schools from Appalachia, or inner city schools in the Deep South (Charlotte or UAB)...the path west is filled with better football and basketball. And its not even close, ESPECIALLY if we can get one or both Gonzaga/St.Mary's.

And no more games on Facebook, Instagram, MySpace, TikTok, etc...

[denton_days]

13 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Lets say BSU goes to the Big XII with Memphis--I think this is very possible. And lets say AFA/CSU/SDSU all go to the AAC. That leaves Hawaii, Nevada, UNLV, Fresno State, San Jose State, Utah State, Wyoming, and New Mexico. If we could go with UTEP, UTSA, and Rice, I'd do it. I'd really do it if we can also get Louisiana Tech and ULL to go with us, too, which gives you 14. And then I hard press Gonzaga and/or St. Mary's to join the league for hoops.

No more F_Us, schools from Appalachia, or inner city schools in the Deep South (Charlotte or UAB)...the path west is filled with better football and basketball. And its not even close, ESPECIALLY if we can get one or both Gonzaga/St.Mary's.

People care way more about Fresno State, San Jose, Utah, and UNLV than FIU, MTST, WKU, ect. Maybe we think that our C-USA teams are worth more than they are because we talk about them all the time, but most of the bottom MWC teams are way better off than C-USA bottom teams.

 

Also, even if the TV contracts are gutted as we show up, they'll still be way better than the C-USA ones. I have to get like 3 different streaming services to watch all our games, if they're even streamed. The MWC is 100% better. I can't believe it's even a conversation. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by denton_days

[Monkeypox]

23 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I've always felt skeptical of this.

The road trip is long and hard.  Read about it in El Paso for years before I started school in Denton.

Yeah, going to Hawaii doesn't do anything for the program, but my wife and I go often enough I could make the games, so... yay?

And at least if we got a beat down in Hawaii, I'd be in a hotel in Hawaii with my wife drunk on mai tais.

15 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Currently, Hawaii is FB only for the MWC, while playing in the Big West for all other sports, so I don't see us ever playing them.

I like the idea of getting away from Judy and CUSA, as long as its with our Texas brethren and/or La Tech.

Lets say BSU goes to the Big XII with Memphis--I think this is very possible. And lets say AFA/CSU/SDSU all go to the AAC. That leaves Hawaii, Nevada, UNLV, Fresno State, San Jose State, Utah State, Wyoming, and New Mexico. If we could go with UTEP, UTSA, and Rice, I'd do it. I'd really do it if we can also get Louisiana Tech and ULL to go with us, too, which gives you 14. And then I hard press Gonzaga and/or St. Mary's to join the league for hoops.

No more F_Us, schools from Appalachia, or inner city schools in the Deep South (Charlotte or UAB)...the path west is filled with better football and basketball. And its not even close, ESPECIALLY if we can get one or both Gonzaga/St.Mary's.

And no more games on Facebook, Instagram, MySpace, TikTok, etc...

Yes. If going to the MWC includes another couple of Texas schools. One of LaTech, Louisiana... even better.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Monkeypox

[ADLER]

So, what are we really looking at?

SDSU, Boise St, and possibly UNLV are leaving the MWC to go to the Big XII

Memphis and possibly South Florida are leaving the AAC to go to the Big XII

Colorado State and Air Force are leaving the MWC to go to the AAC

UAB and possibly Rice are leaving CUSA to go to the AAC

... and Marshall, ODU, and Charlotte are again researching to leave CUSA and go somewhere else

UTEP and NMSU may join New Mexico in the depleted Mountain West

We're reasonably unaffected

We are left in a relatively unchanged but still very good CUSA West. See if Louisiana, Arkansas St, and possibly Texas St would like to join.

Play ball.

 

[ADLER]

49 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Quote

SDSU, Boise St, Colorado St, and Air Force

No guarantee any of those four schools leave the MWC

Please come revisit this post in the near future.

[denton_days]

This analysis is based mostly on the news that have come out. This is the most likely situation based on the rumors and comments made publicly.

 

More than likely, we would be in the more eastern Mountain division

 

MWC Mountain today:

Boise

Utah

Wyoming

AF

New Mexico

CSU

 

The current rumors/what is getting reported to happen:

Boise to Big 12

AF & CSU to AAC

 

The teams remaining:

Utah

Wyoming

New Mexico

 

The rumor was that Tulsa and us would join in, and I could see also UTSA and UTEP joining to get the MWC to 16 (just an extra possibility)

 

The new ‘Mountain’ division would be

UNT

Tulsa

Utah

Wyoming

New Mexico

(Maybe)

UTEP

UTSA

 

 

Alternatively, if Southern Miss goes to Sun Belt, UAB goes to AAC, we're left with

UNT

UTEP

UTSA

Rice

LA Tech

 

and then we'd backfill most likely with FBS teams, or who knows who else. No one wants to be in this conference. I'd much rather be with Tusla, Utah, Wyoming, and New Mexico than whatever sicks around this conference. We pay our coaches way to much to be here. If the teams who are likely going to be leaving the conference leave, we will by far be spending the most money on facilities, coaches, and have the biggest budget. I don't think we are giving ourselves enough credit on where we could be. Our new 'mountain division' would have multiple teams that have been ranked/nearly ranked recently. 

[Wag Tag]

Everybody is going to make less money except the Power 4. Big12, AAC and now maybe the MWC will not be able to find anybody to back fill, that will make a $$$ difference. Most conferences are going to go to 14-16 teams with 2 divisions with championship game. if you can stay somewhat regional maybe you can fill your stadium.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Wag Tag

[keith]

I have no insight on where we will be when the dust settles.  However, what I do have is 40 years of experience following UNT athletics and the wisdom I have gained in this 40 years leads me to one undeniable conclusion...this will be like a swift kick in the nether regions.   When we're finally able to catch our breath and look around through the remaining tears in our eyes, we'll be asking ourselves, "how the hell did we end up here?" 

Hope I'm wrong.  I mean really, isn't it about time the law of averages finally catches up and goes in our favor for once?

Edited September 28, 2021 by keith

[ADLER]

4 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

Everybody is going to make less money except the Power 4. Big12, AAC and now maybe the MWC will not be able to find anybody to back fill, that will make a $$$ difference. Most conferences are going to go to 14-16 teams with 2 divisions with championship game. if you can stay somewhat regional maybe you can fill your stadium.

But wait Wag Tag, we want national media money even though we are not a national media draw. It's like pennies from Heaven!

We can't rely on media money. We need to do everything we can (this is where the idiots say 'just win') to fill our stadium and build our fanbase. 

Our strength is in our numbers but we have done a very poor job filling our venues. People attend during better seasons but the events are not enough of a draw to entice people to attend during less successful seasons.

Get the fan following strong enough and consistent winning will follow. It doesn't happen the other way around. Winning is a goal, not a strategy.

[DeepGreen]

1 hour ago, ADLER said:

We are left in a relatively unchanged but still very good CUSA West. See if Louisiana, Arkansas St, and possibly Texas St would like to join.

Sun Belt, II?

[Green Otaku]

2 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Agree. AAC?MWC will pick to fill in. Then you have what's left of the Belt and CUSA. Do the Eastern teams band together? Could one or two teams head to the MAC? It's better to have some say in where we go rather than to wait until we in with the what-ever-is-left-over. MWC or the AAC (if SMU end up moving) might be the best we can hope for.

 

Reading the CUSA board the Marshall fans are constantly groaning and complaining about CUSA. They think the travel costs for them to get to the western division are too much, and the general level of the conference is poor. Seems like they would be happy to A: Lose the western Texas schools, which would allow them to invite some or all of App., Coastal, Liberty, UL. JMU. Or B: Go to the Sunbelt and join App., Coastal, and the Georgia Schools. taking USM, ODU,  and WKU with them. (Add in that I saw some ODU fans also agreeing with the Marshall posters.)

B could be a nightmare scenario for UNT if we get passed over. Imagine losing those schools while Rice goes to the AAC, UTEP and UTSA go to the MWC.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Green Otaku

[Wag Tag]

1 hour ago, ADLER said:

But wait Wag Tag, we want national media money even though we are not a national media draw. It's like pennies from Heaven!

We can't rely on media money. We need to do everything we can (this is where the idiots say 'just win') to fill our stadium and build our fanbase. 

Our strength is in our numbers but we have done a very poor job filling our venues. People attend during better seasons but the events are not enough of a draw to entice people to attend during less successful seasons.

Get the fan following strong enough and consistent winning will follow. It doesn't happen the other way around. Winning is a goal, not a strategy.

All I want is a successful mid major program. In all sports. This should be the goal and the rest will follow.

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, ADLER said:

But wait Wag Tag, we want national media money even though we are not a national media draw. It's like pennies from Heaven!

…

Good grief this argument is so misguided.

Apogee is a 32k-seat stadium.   We have more students than the currently enrolled.  We have over 100k alumni living in DFW.

IF we need “regional teams” to help us fill our stadium, we must be losing… and we are.  
 

If we can win against more recognizable teams to the average sports fan at NT (both currently-enrolled & alumni), we won’t need any teams to help us fill the stadium…. We’ll fill it ourselves, as we should!

[PlummMeanGreen]

3 hours ago, keith said:

I have no insight on where we will be when the dust settles.  However, what I do have is 40 years of experience following UNT athletics and the wisdom I have gained in this 40 years leads me to one undeniable conclusion...this will be like a swift kick in the nether regions.   When we're finally able to catch our breath and look around through the remaining tears in our eyes, we'll be asking ourselves, "how the hell did we end up here?" 

Hope I'm wrong.  I mean really, isn't it about time the law of averages finally catches up and goes in our favor for once?

Totally agree.

There are alums & fans on GMG who have followed MG football from 50 to 65+ years.  It’s obviously time that group sees the law of averages go in UNT’s  favor, too.

 I think many of us wanted Seth Littrell to be a raging success in Denton, but in his year 6 it doesn’t seem to be heading that direction.  

I wish SL’s consecutive 9 & 4 seasons would (in 2021) be in the 2’nd year of that W/L success.  If that would have been the case, re-alignment talk about a “winning” Mean Green football plus—-it’s location in a 5 county Texas mega-population center larger than 36 states in the Union.  All that along with UNT’s booming/burdgeoning constituencies of which some schools fans who seem to regularly visit GMG will turn a tad green & tell us how so unimportant all that is.  Well, I say bullshit to that & that new fans don’t jump out of weirdly placed billboards or come from the Good Ship Lollipop. 

A winning UNT now would be the talk of 1 or 2 conferences whose leagues I believe we have a high interest, but for now it seems to be only......crickets.  🦗 🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗

••• 🌞Some close to the MG scene are hearing North Texas is still a favorite in some (un-named for now) quarters. Those conference powers know that  without a doubt we can have a more than respectable budget & that we are still very active participants in the FBS venues arm race. A few photos below shows just a few of those—with more to come.  

🏆(Can’t wait to see what our UNT AD & staff comes up with for the Apogee Stadium south end zone facility that will adjoin the existing Athletic Center). App.State’s EZ facility didn’t  look too bad in the Marshall game last week.

Edited September 29, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

[Cerebus]

I have to say this: The Arizona was not torpedoed, it was hit by horizontal flight bombers.  

I also have to say that while the CUSA commissioner has gotten absolutely flamed for the media deal, the reality is that the CUSA presidents are the ones who set conditions.   They are the ones who didn't want to move games away from Saturday.  Since the conference wouldn't budge on that, no ESPN deal.

 

[untjim1995]

2 hours ago, keith said:

I have no insight on where we will be when the dust settles.  However, what I do have is 40 years of experience following UNT athletics and the wisdom I have gained in this 40 years leads me to one undeniable conclusion...this will be like a swift kick in the nether regions.   When we're finally able to catch our breath and look around through the remaining tears in our eyes, we'll be asking ourselves, "how the hell did we end up here?" 

Hope I'm wrong.  I mean really, isn't it about time the law of averages finally catches up and goes in our favor for once?

This might be the single best post I’ve read on here. We will somehow end up in the wrong side of all of this…because we always have. Look at CUSA West. Terrible division in a terrible conference—yet, without a doubt, it’s the BEST setup we’ve ever had. Why? Because we play in a setup with actual teams in Texas and Louisiana that people have heard of. 
 

I have no doubt that we will either not go west and the MWC will stay intact or, just like when we joined CUSA in 2013, we will join the MWC and everyone we want to be associated with will all leave, as they don’t want to be stuck behind. And if we stay in CUSA, I’m certain all of our games will be on Facebook.

It is what it is.

[ADLER]

5 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

Sun Belt, II?

CUSA-West with our two best rivals from the Sun Bel (Louisiana and Arkansas St) added, not bad at all.

Seriously DeepG, which of these schools do you not like playing? Which are we above playing with?

La Tech, Rice, UTSA, UTEP, Louisiana, Arkansas St, Southern Miss and possibly Texas St, MTSU and WKU 

(UTEP may depart for a depleted MWC along with NMSU)

Add in annual non-conference games with SMU, one FCS, and one P5 and we've got a pretty good schedule.

 

.

Edited September 29, 2021 by ADLER

[Magic95Fan]

I think we HAVE to accept an invite if the MWC comes a calling. We can't afford to get left behind in the worst FBS conference. 

UAB is leaving. It's happening. Marshall and Southern Miss are more than likely leaving. UTSA picked a good time to get hot and they are probably leaving. 

We can't be left out in the open in a non-ESPN conference with the rest of the teams nobody wants and nobody wants to pay for. We have to take the risk. The MWC have similar budgets to us and are far more committed to Athletics than the likes of Florida International and Middle Tennessee.  We need the prestige boost and we need better competition to sharpen our own teams.

And most of all, I want road trips to Vegas over Birmingham.  And Laramie over Murfreesboro.  And San Jose over Bowling Green. There is a huge fun factor that can't be ignored. 

Let's quit being the bottom of the barrel and start the process of trying to move up in the world.

Go Freaking Mean Green. I'll see you guys and gals in Colombia. 

[DeepGreen]

10 minutes ago, ADLER said:

CUSA-West with our two best rivals from the Sun Bel (Louisiana and Arkansas St) added, not bad at all.

Seriously DeepG, which of these schools do you not like playing? Which are we above playing with?

La Tech, Rice, UTSA, UTEP, Louisiana, Arkansas St, Southern Miss and possibly Texas St 

Add in annual non-conference games with SMU, one FCS, and one P5 and we've got a pretty good schedule.

If you can keep those teams intact I’d say pretty decent league. My guess is So Miss, Louisiana, and possibly Rice could bolt.

And  no, we are not above playing any of those schools. At this stage I just want these things to happen- belong to a very competitive conference, win a conference championship on a regular basis, go to a meaningful bowl and win, take down a P5 on a regular basis, average 20-25,000+ at Apogee, and be in a conference that I don’t have to stream on Facebook, Stadium, are some other random streaming service.  I want to be on TV on a regular basis and win on TV.  Become part of the sports worlds conversation the morning after a big win.

[ADLER]

4 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Good grief this argument is so misguided.

Apogee is a 32k-seat stadium.   We have more students than the currently enrolled.  We have over 100k alumni living in DFW.

IF we need “regional teams” to help us fill our stadium, we must be losing… and we are.  
 

If we can win against more recognizable teams to the average sports fan at NT (both currently-enrolled & alumni), we won’t need any teams to help us fill the stadium…. We’ll fill it ourselves, as we should!

Go re-read the post. It doesn't say a thing about visiting fans.

[ADLER]

Quote

If, as the prognosticators, sages, seers, and informed insiders  on this Board are accurate, Boise/SDSU/AFA/CSU are history. The MW is reeling with only 8 teams. TV revenue bottoms out to current Sun Belt levels. NMSU and UTEP are obvious adds. That brings the depleted MW to ten. That's the minimum necessary to play a CCG.

The above post is from the MW message board. If correct, the MWC, will be robbed of several of it's marquee teams. Not a horrible conference but certainly geographically challenging for a Dallas area school. We would realistically need five central time zone schools to move with us to make it a really good 16 member conference with two eight team divisions.

West: Nevada, UNLV, SJSU, Fresno St, Hawaii, Wyoming, Utah St, New Mexico, 

East: Southern Miss, La Tech, Arkansas St, Louisiana, North Texas, UTSA, NMSU, UTEP

All are among the largest schools from each of their individual states.

Short of something like this there is no way we should be interested. Let the MWC sit at 10 with UTEP and NMSU.

[PlummMeanGreen]

3 hours ago, ADLER said:

The above post is from the MW message board. If correct, the MWC, will be robbed of several of it's marquee teams. Not a horrible conference but certainly geographically challenging for a Dallas area school. We would realistically need five central time zone schools to move with us to make it a really good 16 member conference with two eight team divisions.

West: Nevada, UNLV, SJSU, Fresno St, Hawaii, Wyoming, Utah St, New Mexico, 

East: Southern Miss, La Tech, Arkansas St, Louisiana, North Texas, UTSA, NMSU, UTEP

All are among the largest schools from each of their individual states.

Short of something like this there is no way we should be interested. Let the MWC sit at 10 with UTEP and NMSU.

Fully agree, ADLER.  

We can’t go belly-up just because we might want a change of scenery.
 

🦅