The X's and O's from Saturday

[UNT86]

I have read another thread talking about the QB situation.  Both played poorly, but they were not the problem on Saturday.

UAB played a 50 front, but with only one LB (usually in a 50 front there are two over the guards).  They played a nose, a Mike linebacker, two 4I's (inside shades on the tackles), and wide 9's.  In the secondary, they played man on your three splits up tight.  They had two safeties deep to cover if one of the three corners got beat deep.  They almost never got out of that alignment.

The problem is that you should run at that front.  We tried, but our OL was completely dominated by the front of UAB.   The play calling was correct for what UAB was doing.  You should not throw the ball to three WR being covered by 5 DB.  You should run the ball against a light box, but it seemed they were getting clean keys and were reacting without any hesitation.  

Until we solve that issue, we will continue to see that front.  Coaches watch film and you can bet we will continue to see that until we solve it.  

[DeepGreen]

So a fan sees the problem but the coaches on the sidelines and in the press box do not?  What kind of staff do we have?

[untjim1995]

18 minutes ago, UNT86 said:

I have read another thread talking about the QB situation.  Both played poorly, but they were not the problem on Saturday.

UAB played a 50 front, but with only one LB (usually in a 50 front there are two over the guards).  They played a nose, a Mike linebacker, two 4I's (inside shades on the tackles), and wide 9's.  In the secondary, they played man on your three splits up tight.  They had two safeties deep to cover if one of the three corners got beat deep.  They almost never got out of that alignment.

The problem is that you should run at that front.  We tried, but our OL was completely dominated by the front of UAB.   The play calling was correct for what UAB was doing.  You should not throw the ball to three WR being covered by 5 DB.  You should run the ball against a light box, but it seemed they were getting clean keys and were reacting without any hesitation.  

Until we solve that issue, we will continue to see that front.  Coaches watch film and you can bet we will continue to see that until we solve it.  

Both of our lines have been absolutely dominated by both UAB and La Tech for 4 years now...they physically whip us up front. And I don't see SL having one clue on how to fix this. Hell, now he can't even develop the areas he was somewhat known for, QBs and receivers.

When McCarney was here, he had the right recipe that no one else was rolling with--physical play on both sides of the ball. Unfortunately, much like Dickey, he was scared to death of throwing the ball down field, so we were usually stuck with game managers. Good ones, like Scott Hall or Derek Thompson, could still make plays. Bad ones, like McNulty and Josh Greer, wouldn't start at another FBS program--or in the case of Greer, he wouldn't start at an average FCS program. And that's the rub with playing a bare-bones offense--none of the kids you recruit from TX HS even play that style of ball. Its just glorified flag football. The coach who will figure something out here will be the one who gets the best of Mac's line-focused teams while incorporating an offense that isn't from the leather helmet days...

[MeanGreenHoops]

17 hours ago, UNT86 said:

I have read another thread talking about the QB situation.  Both played poorly, but they were not the problem on Saturday.

UAB played a 50 front, but with only one LB (usually in a 50 front there are two over the guards).  They played a nose, a Mike linebacker, two 4I's (inside shades on the tackles), and wide 9's.  In the secondary, they played man on your three splits up tight.  They had two safeties deep to cover if one of the three corners got beat deep.  They almost never got out of that alignment.

The problem is that you should run at that front.  We tried, but our OL was completely dominated by the front of UAB.   The play calling was correct for what UAB was doing.  You should not throw the ball to three WR being covered by 5 DB.  You should run the ball against a light box, but it seemed they were getting clean keys and were reacting without any hesitation.  

Until we solve that issue, we will continue to see that front.  Coaches watch film and you can bet we will continue to see that until we solve it.  

Please post more.

[Wag Tag]

17 hours ago, UNT86 said:

I have read another thread talking about the QB situation.  Both played poorly, but they were not the problem on Saturday.

UAB played a 50 front, but with only one LB (usually in a 50 front there are two over the guards).  They played a nose, a Mike linebacker, two 4I's (inside shades on the tackles), and wide 9's.  In the secondary, they played man on your three splits up tight.  They had two safeties deep to cover if one of the three corners got beat deep.  They almost never got out of that alignment.

The problem is that you should run at that front.  We tried, but our OL was completely dominated by the front of UAB.   The play calling was correct for what UAB was doing.  You should not throw the ball to three WR being covered by 5 DB.  You should run the ball against a light box, but it seemed they were getting clean keys and were reacting without any hesitation.  

Until we solve that issue, we will continue to see that front.  Coaches watch film and you can bet we will continue to see that until we solve it.  

Would like to see your analysis on the D side. I understand what our base D is, but do we ever zone up? Thanks

[Mean Green 93-98]

17 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

So a fan sees the problem but the coaches on the sidelines and in the press box do not?  What kind of staff do we have?

Littrell specifically referred to this issue in his comments.

[UNTLifer]

13 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Littrell specifically referred to this issue in his comments.

That the fans are more adept than his coaches at dissecting what the opponent is doing?

[MeanGreenTexan]

16 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

That the fans are more adept than his coaches at dissecting what the opponent is doing?

No, that there were only 5 men in the box, and he has 5 O-Linemen, and that is 99%-of-the-time a significant advantage for the OL in the run game.

[TheColonyEagle]

18 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

So a fan sees the problem but the coaches on the sidelines and in the press box do not?  What kind of staff do we have?

I think to UNT86’s point….the coaches DID see what they were doing.  It’s why they kept running it. It’s not like UAB had 8-9 in the box and we just kept smashing into it. 

If we can’t run against a D that appears to be loaded up to stop the pass….not sure what we can do. 
 

Say what we want about Littrell but he HAS run the ball effectively for the most part in his tenure here. Situationally maybe not but running the ball hasn’t been terrible. 
 

Maybe our players just aren’t good enough to compete with UAB. Which ultimately….is Littrell’s responsibility also. 

[untjim1995]

1 minute ago, TheColonyEagle said:

Maybe our players just aren’t good enough to compete with UAB. Which ultimately….is Littrell’s responsibility also. 

This.

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

This.

I don't believe our players aren't good enough to compete with UAB.  We have plenty of talent, now the coaching staff has to maximize it and hold these young men accountable.  If they are putting forth the effort, then find someone that will.

[peanuts104]

Running screen plays would help with this problem and I can't recall seeing even one screen play (not saying we didn't, just saying I don't remember seeing one).

[Mean Green 93-98]

3 minutes ago, peanuts104 said:

Running screen plays would help with this problem and I can't recall seeing even one screen play (not saying we didn't, just saying I don't remember seeing one).

Oh, we definitely did.  I remember at least a couple of them being blown up behind the LOS.

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 minute ago, peanuts104 said:

Running screen plays would help with this problem and I can't recall seeing even one screen play (not saying we didn't, just saying I don't remember seeing one).

Screens are meant to back off pressure though.  If the defense is continually sending 4/5 (or more) guys to rush the QB, you can back them off a little bit by hitting on a screen just behind that pressure.
UAB was only sending 3-4 guys.   You can't run a screen on that because there are too many LBs and DBs back there reading the play.

[greenminer]

Further reinforces my worries about player development/roster management.

For 3 years, SL has brought in better players than we have ever seen in Denton.  With multiple G5/P5 offers, these players that we have in Denton were - coming out of high school - perceived to be good by other schools, too.  This is the year they should be populating the two-deep and representing us on the field.  There shouldn't be any more excuses about any talent gap.

We should be matching up with UAB's level of play, but it looks like Seth and Co are not coaching them up that way.

[jacksondf]

UNT 86, 

I'm glad you posted this. Watching the game, I kept trying to figure out what the coaches were seeing on the field that caused them to keep handing off inside. Now I don't know if I should feel better or worse. 

[UNT86]

It makes for a long night as a coach when you know what to do, but your players cannot execute the scheme.  When the X's whip the O's, it is rough.  

It is another matter entirely if you know as a coach what to do, but you do not or have not installed that portion of the scheme into the offense.  That can happen when you have a QB that does not go through Spring Ball.  He may have never taken reps on the things you REALLY need to do.  You can be handcuffed when that happens.  

What concerned me the most Saturday were the clean keys UAB was getting from our scheme.  In the 80"s and 90's, false keys were rare.  In today's game, they are a lot more normal.  That I could see, UAB never got a bad key.  

If it were me, that is where I would start.  It sucks as a defensive coach when you cannot get clean keys and tell you kids where they should be looking.  It makes them slow and slow defenses give up points.  

The second place for me is more plays where I can read a defender instead of blocking him (think old school triple option).  If I can get a double team at the point of attack and read a defender instead of blocking him, it helps.  It also makes the defense slow down and play assignment football.  It takes away from our disadvantage in athleticism.  These kinds of plays are still available in 1-back schemes.

[greenminer]

Someone explain to this idiot what a good/clean key is, vs. a bad key.

[MeanGreenTexan]

17 hours ago, greenminer said:

Someone explain to this idiot what a good/clean key is, vs. a bad key.

Keys are what defensive players are looking at prior to the play according to their assignment/playcall.

So, LBs have a bunch of keys to read based on offensive alignment VS what they're supposed to do according to the play that was called for them.

So, say you're a MLB.  It's 1st & 10.  You have a run defense play called.  Your keys would be to look at RB & OL/TE alignment (and be aware of any slot receivers that might be able to assist in run blocking). 
Pre-snap, you see the RB is lined up to the left of the QB.  You see the TE motion over to the left & line up tight against the LT.  As a MLB, a good/clean pre-snap key would be for you to anticipate moving to the left, and filling a gap for this upcoming run play to that side.
Post-snap, you start moving to the left & up to the LOS.  You're aware of how the OL & that TE are blocking early on as the play is being run so you know which hole to plug, or keep going if the play is to run outside.  Either way, you're focused on the RB the whole time, and you've put yourself in a position to stop him.

A bad key would be watching that same pre-snap alignment & movement, only for the QB to play action off of that, bringing you (the MLB) up & over to the left looking to stop the run, but pass to that TE on a release/cross in the empty space you just left.  You were deceived, making the keys you read wrong, or "bad".

UNT86 is essentially saying our offensive playcalling was vanilla, with little-to-no deception.  All of the defensive keys were "clean", meaning, the defense can understand what we're doing & what they're going to do to stop it prior to the play even being run.  He goes on saying maybe this is due to our starting QB only showing up over the summer & isn't good enough to be able to execute wrinkles in the offense.

Sorry folks, but this kind of issue is not something that is remediated in 1 week's worth of preparations, especially with our lackluster QB play.  We're putting all of this on tape for Skip & Co to watch.   It's gonna be ugly.   
We were spoiled with Mason Fine.  Now our offensive genius head coach can't trust his QBs to do anything more than run a vanilla playbook that every DC has prepped for over the past few years.   This likely has a lot to do with not having any sort of QB coaching last season (at least for Aune's development), and I'm not sure Coach Joseph is getting his job done either.