Rock and a Hard Place

[El Paso Eagle]

Is where Wren is at. We are frustrated and saying Wren should fire Seth, but the truth is, money is an issue. We can all act like it isn't but we need to step into reality (as bad as it sucks). The reality is at this moment the boosters with the money are not ready for Seth to be gone. When they are, he will be gone. At some point Wren has to be able to weigh the risk of keeping Seth with the risk o cutting him lose and be able to convince his bosses.

[TCC Mean Green]

When we all stay home and burn our season tickets, then Wren will have to make a decision…Wren doesn’t have the b$lls!

[meangreenbob]

16 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Is where Wren is at. We are frustrated and saying Wren should fire Seth, but the truth is, money is an issue. We can all act like it isn't but we need to step into reality (as bad as it sucks). The reality is at this moment the boosters with the money are not ready for Seth to be gone. When they are, he will be gone. At some point Wren has to be able to weigh the risk of keeping Seth with the risk o cutting him lose and be able to convince his bosses.

I explained a while back that money isn’t the issue.

What we needed to have been doing is scouring all the head coaches at the FCS level. We should have had an in depth data sheet on everyone of them. We should have done such a thorough job that we knew them better than they knew themselves.

Then we hire the best one, pay them $600,000 which would be an incredible pay raise for most. Than we renegotiate with Littrell paying him $500,000/yr until he is paid off leaving us about $700,000 to invest in the program. 

Edited September 19, 2021 by meangreenbob

[El Paso Eagle]

2 minutes ago, meangreenbob said:

I explained a while back that money isn’t the issue.

What we needed to have been doing is scouring all the head coaches at the FCS level. We should have had an in depth data sheet on everyone of them. We should have done such a thorough job that we knew them better than they knew themselves.

Then we hire the best one, pay them $600,000 which would be an incredible pay rise for most. Than we renegotiate with Littrell paying him $500,000/yr until he is paid off leaving us about $700,000 to invest in the program. 

Who I would like to see -

https://sfajacks.com/staff-directory/colby-carthel/326

[Hunter Green]

What is Seth's buyout? Wasn't his contract redone recently?

[Hunter Green]

19 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Is where Wren is at. We are frustrated and saying Wren should fire Seth, but the truth is, money is an issue. We can all act like it isn't but we need to step into reality (as bad as it sucks). The reality is at this moment the boosters with the money are not ready for Seth to be gone. When they are, he will be gone. At some point Wren has to be able to weigh the risk of keeping Seth with the risk o cutting him lose and be able to convince his bosses.

Then we are not a real Div. 1 program and don't take football seriously.

[Mike Jackson]

21 minutes ago, meangreenbob said:

What we needed to have been doing is scouring all the head coaches at the FCS level. We should have had an in depth data sheet on everyone of them. We should have done such a thorough job that we knew them better than they knew themselves.

This all day.  We should never be in a position to overpay for subpar or garbage performance because we have no recent history of sustained success.  We fired Darell Dickey even though he presided over 3 straight SBC titles. (I don’t count the one when we had a losing record overall).  Mind you he did that with crap facilities, Fouts Field and preceded by UNT not winning a conference title at the FBS level since 1973.  I am really tired of excuses and our school moving around in the market for coaches like beggars.  I think we build football coaching staffs by offering good contracts to assistant coaches.  The Head coach should always be on a “prove it” contract until he actually win something or gets a solid offer from a P5 program we can bid against.  And if that P5 isn’t public wish the coach and accept his resignation when we call your bluff.  

Edited September 19, 2021 by Mike Jackson

[NorthTexasWeLove]

He's in that situation, yes. It's self inflicted. He let an agent work him over like the first time AD that he is. No one to blame but WB if we're financially handcuffed. 

[greenjoe]

A over-simplified contract my wife likes is as follows…

$500,000. Base salary.  Period.  $100,000 bonus per win.  Coach wins 6 games, he’s paid 1.1 mil.  He wins 10 games, he earns 1.5 mil.  When coach is successful, NT is successful.

[TheColonyEagle]

8 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

He's in that situation, yes. It's self inflicted. He let an agent work him over like the first time AD that he is. No one to blame but WB if we're financially handcuffed. 

YYYYYYYYYYYUP

[GrandGreen]

1 hour ago, Mike Jackson said:

This all day.  We should never be in a position to overpay for subpar or garbage performance because we have no recent history of sustained success.  We fired Darell Dickey even though he presided over 3 straight SBC titles. (I don’t count the one when we had a losing record overall).  Mind you he did that with crap facilities, Fouts Field and preceded by UNT not winning a conference title at the FBS level since 1973.  I am really tired of excuses and our school moving around in the market for coaches like beggars.  I think we build football coaching staffs by offering good contracts to assistant coaches.  The Head coach should always be on a “prove it” contract until he actually win something or gets a solid offer from a P5 program we can bid against.  And if that P5 isn’t public wish the coach and accept his resignation when we call your bluff.  

DD is a poor example for your message.   Dickey fired himself by his outrageous behavior.  Dickey won in the new Belt primarily because of the poor competition.  Facilities may have been very poor per today's standards, but not compared to the other Belt members at the time. 

NT will much more likely go after a proven head coach, than take another flyer on an assistant that has never been a hc at the college level. That is what colleges usually do, when they terminate a coach: go in the opposite direction and hire someone with a very different background. 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by GrandGreen

[UNTcrazy727]

1 hour ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

He's in that situation, yes. It's self inflicted. He let an agent work him over like the first time AD that he is. No one to blame but WB if we're financially handcuffed. 

You have no idea what you’re talking about

[Ken14]

Games like last night hurt in so many ways at this level. Recruiting, MGSF donations, season tickets....and prospective students and parents... The look on the twins Fathers face last night said a lot. People talk.. It would be a gut punch to lose them to the portal....  

[NorthTexasWeLove]

34 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

You have no idea what you’re talking about

Constructive. Then how about you inform us then?

We are a hot mess of a football program right now. The person leading the charge has been extended and given a raise...twice. Are these not facts? 

[PlummMeanGreen]

40 minutes ago, Ken14 said:

Games like last night hurt in so many ways at this level. Recruiting, MGSF donations, season tickets....and prospective students and parents... The look on the twins Fathers face last night said a lot. People talk.. It would be a gut punch to lose them to the portal....  

The blue chip football recruit on campus who was supposed to announce yesterday?    Hmmm...🤔

[greenjoe]

We are so unaccustomed to winning, any glimpse of success draws an unreasonable response and an unnecessary bonus or contract extension.  We should remember that coaches are hired to be successful.  Winning should be the norm and not the exception.  
 

Are we still paying off the Rick Villarreal and Dan McCarney contracts ?

[ChiefTenBeers2015]

2 hours ago, greenjoe said:

We are so unaccustomed to winning, any glimpse of success draws an unreasonable response and an unnecessary bonus or contract extension.  We should remember that coaches are hired to be successful.  Winning should be the norm and not the exception.  
 

Are we still paying off the Rick Villarreal and Dan McCarney contracts ?

I think historically the Mean Green are a .500 program so…

[emmitt01]

4 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

DD is a poor example for your message.   Dickey fired himself by his outrageous behavior.  Dickey won in the new Belt primarily because of the poor competition.  Facilities may have been very poor per today's standards, but not compared to the other Belt members at the time. 

NT will much more likely go after a proven head coach, than take another flyer on an assistant that has never been a hc at the college level. That is what colleges usually do, when they terminate a coach: go in the opposite direction and hire someone with a very different background. 

 

I’m not sure you visited other Sun Belt stadiums back then.  Better stadiums could be found in:

- Arkansas State

- Louisiana Lafayette

- New Mexico State

- Middle Tennessee 

- (arguably) Louisiana Monroe

- Troy when they joined

- Utah State when they joined

 

Fouts was bad.  
 

Like cricket infested bad.  

Like stairs that walked straight up to the press box bad.  

Like had to bring in generators just to turn on the lights for games bad.  

Like 30 yards from the FRONT row to the sideline bad.   

Like concrete covered by a very thin padding and then turf bad.  
 

Dickey recruited to facilities that were piss poor compared to most FCS programs.  

Edited September 19, 2021 by emmitt01

[THOR]

5 hours ago, Hunter Green said:

What is Seth's buyout? Wasn't his contract redone recently?

it's 30% of remaining base salary on contract....roughtly 1.8 million....i think

[UNTLifer]

3 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Constructive. Then how about you inform us then?

We are a hot mess of a football program right now. The person leading the charge has been extended and given a raise...twice. Are these not facts? 

So predictable. Never posts a thing when we are winning, about our basketball success, nothing. But when times turn bad, here you come like:

[greenjoe]

According to Wikipedia, 51.7%.  You’re right.  Is anybody satisfied with 51.7% ?

[ttunt1970]

5 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

EP Eagle I agree with you as I stated earlier we need to get an up and comer Colby Carthel fits the bill

[Mike Jackson]

5 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

DD is a poor example for your message.   Dickey fired himself by his outrageous behavior.  Dickey won in the new Belt primarily because of the poor competition.

Again just semantics IMO.  If he had continued winning he doesn’t get fired for his BS.  And CUSA isn’t exactly good either especially the West with upstart UTSA, walking dead Rice & UTEP, and coming back from the dead UAB.  Only consistently solid west programs Southern Miss and La Tech.  Hopsin “ resigned“ with a winning record in the middle of a season that was taking a turn for the worse.  People may have had a valid axe to grind with DD for his behavior and he should have been gone. But I doubt he survives his last season if he was a nice guy and lost all those games.  He was also fired weeks after having a heart attack.  So instead of arguing over “perception details” just looks at the facts.  He wasn’t winning and he was fired.  If this program was serious and deserved to be considered for a conference upgrade this dude is gone in two weeks at maximum.  That was utter garbage for an HC hired largely due to his perceived ability to coach offense.  

[Mike Jackson]

1 hour ago, emmitt01 said:

Dickey recruited to facilities that were piss poor compared to most FCS programs.  

You are better than me sir.  I am tired of people downgrading a coach that actually won significantly for multiple seasons.  I don’t care if you are play Incarnate College of the Blind every other week the job is compete and win most of the games.  So the next time someone wants to defend  a current coach with 4 years in the job and no conference titles vs a coach with 3 conference titles we need a photo of the UNT Football trophy case with the caption I know you like coach “_______”.  So where are his trophies here are Darell’s.  Heck Dan McCarney at least had a Heart of Dallas Bowl trophy in the case.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

So predictable. Never posts a thing when we are winning, about our basketball success, nothing. But when times turn bad, here you come like:

I'm not pissing in anyone's Cheerios. I post on the basketball board. Go look. I attend games when I can, as well. I post after wins. I post during wins. Both sports. But I'm a football and baseball guy. This is a football board. We are not good at football. We truly haven't been good at football SL's entire tenure, if you actually break it down. It needs to be stated, I've been stating it for running years. It needs to be reiterated when momentum is being created to force an exodus of the problem. You don't like it. I don't like it. I am not committed to seeing anyone person have success. I'm committed to seeing UNT have success. Seth Littrell will long be gone from here, we'll all still be here. Fire the man. It's been time.