American targeting MWC Powers Among Others For Expansion

greenminer · September 17, 2021

4 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

I gotta admit despite the time zone issues there is something weirdly exciting about joining the mountain west.

Getting away from Judy? I'll take it.

Cr1028 · September 17, 2021

1 hour ago, DeepGreen said:

What’s this, sloppy seconds? No thanks!

TCU and UH have made a good run by being sloppy seconds. I have no problem with it. If they take us then great.

untjim1995 · September 17, 2021

1 minute ago, Cr1028 said:

I don’t disagree with you but we also don’t want our travel costs (both financial and physical/mental) to increase unless their is a substantial benefit and I don’t see the MWC being that for us.

Exactly. And I think that if the MWC doesn’t lose anyone to another conference—think Big 12 more than AAC—they would be extremely smart to go west. If they got UTEP, UTSA, UNT, and Rice, you get 4 huge TV markets that you don’t have now. And you get inroads into bowls in El Paso, San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Frisco, and Ft. Worth. That’s a win/win for all parties, in my opinion.

ColoradoEagle · September 17, 2021

5 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

These conferences believe attendance will pick up if they get a better set of competition to come to the Alamodome. And football apparently is the only thing driving the bus for these networks and conferences.

That would be true for any school moving up, though.

untjim1995 · September 17, 2021

Just now, ColoradoEagle said:

That would be true for any school moving up, though.

But what isn’t the same is sharing a market…and UTSA has the advantage that we don’t have.

ColoradoEagle · September 17, 2021

4 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

But what isn’t the same is sharing a market…and UTSA has the advantage that we don’t have.

This is like saying “Why have UCLA when we already have USC?” Obviously on a different scale.

El Paso Eagle · September 17, 2021

48 minutes ago, MeanGreen22 said:

I REALLY don’t get the UTSA love. Someone explain it to me like I’m 5. They’ve had a couple decent football seasons and….?

It's all about Location - It's access to San Antonio despite having to take UTSA

Arkstfan · September 17, 2021

1 hour ago, keith said:

Realignment is all about the opportunity to “move up” not to move sideways. Any school currently in the MWC cannot possibly see the AAC as a move up. For the MWC, a move up would be to the B12 or PAC12 and that’s it. The AAC is dreaming if they think they can lure any school from the MWC (which besides the MAC is the most stable G5 conference).

If the AAC is going to reload or the MWC is going to expand, the candidates are coming from CUSA or the Sun Belt only. Anything else is just silly talk IMHO

As I said on another board, the money is less a driver than people think.

OU and Texas can read the handwriting. The national press spends most of its time talking SEC and B1G. The ACC stays relevant because of Clemson and the playoffs. The Big XII might actually have gotten less ink due to the constant “How can PAC-12 fix itself” articles.

Being ignored was a big factor in OU and UT feeling a need to move.

The only weakness I see that AAC can exploit with MWC is Air Force. The Falcons have made it no secret they dislike the MWC revenue plan believing that if it is an equity partnership, the partners share mostly equal shares rather than feed notably more to Boise State. They were livid over proposals to expand the MWC schedule to 9 that would have left them with one available non-conference date. They don’t like being distant third fiddle in attention paid to them compared to Army and Navy and making Navy a conference game would increase the focus on AFA-Navy.

If AFA is in a big enough snit that they would leave then odds are Colorado State, Wyoming and New Mexico would all be glad to follow.

If AFA doesn’t bolt then AAC’s options narrow. They could probably grab a MAC if they felt a MAC helped. No one in Sun Belt fits the past expansion model because Georgia State isn’t good enough at least right now. So they can take two CUSA or four. I wouldn’t rule out them making a run at St Louis and Dayton to bolster hoops and settle for 10 in football, I think St Louis would jump, I’m not so sure Dayton would.

Arkstfan · September 17, 2021

56 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

This is like saying “Why have UCLA when we already have USC?” Obviously on a different scale.

USC and UCLA are two of the most recognized brands in college athletics with strong reputations in multiple sports. Both draw viewers not just locally but nationally. From what I saw visiting LA, the fan dynamic is very different. USC is a top private school but it’s the “common man’s” team. UCLA is highly selective and in a more upscale area and since abandoning the Coliseum plays in a more upscale area. The upper middle class guy who went to Cal State Fullerton is probably a UCLA fan.

keith · September 17, 2021

There is nothing left in the AAC that makes it appealing for UNT. Do we really want to be associated with small private schools or ECU or Temple? Really? Memphis, I get, sort of, but for how long. Historically we have some sort of unnatural desire to be in the same conference with SMU. We need to get over it. We cannot let ourselves be defined by an association with “that school in Dallas.”

The best thing to happen for UNT in this phase is for the AAC to go after UTSA and the MWC to come after us. The sooner we separate ourselves from UTSA and forget about SMU, the better we will be. It will be a much better spot for us.

ColoradoEagle · September 17, 2021

6 minutes ago, Arkstfan said:

USC and UCLA are two of the most recognized brands in college athletics with strong reputations in multiple sports. Both draw viewers not just locally but nationally. From what I saw visiting LA, the fan dynamic is very different. USC is a top private school but it’s the “common man’s” team. UCLA is highly selective and in a more upscale area and since abandoning the Coliseum plays in a more upscale area. The upper middle class guy who went to Cal State Fullerton is probably a UCLA fan.

Again, it’s a different scale. AAC isn’t exactly the PAC12. The point is that the DFW DMA is roughly 3x the size of San Antonio, plenty capable of supporting both schools should either of them start posting top 25 rankings.

I actually know quite a few more UCLA than USC fans in LA, anecdotally.

Edited September 17, 2021 by ColoradoEagle

TheColonyEagle · September 17, 2021

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

Exactly. And I think that if the MWC doesn’t lose anyone to another conference—think Big 12 more than AAC—they would be extremely smart to go west. If they got UTEP, UTSA, UNT, and Rice, you get 4 huge TV markets that you don’t have now. And you get inroads into bowls in El Paso, San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Frisco, and Ft. Worth. That’s a win/win for all parties, in my opinion.

Sign me up

keith · September 17, 2021

10 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

As I said on another board, the money is less a driver than people think.

OU and Texas can read the handwriting. The national press spends most of its time talking SEC and B1G. The ACC stays relevant because of Clemson and the playoffs. The Big XII might actually have gotten less ink due to the constant “How can PAC-12 fix itself” articles.

Being ignored was a big factor in OU and UT feeling a need to move.

The only weakness I see that AAC can exploit with MWC is Air Force. The Falcons have made it no secret they dislike the MWC revenue plan believing that if it is an equity partnership, the partners share mostly equal shares rather than feed notably more to Boise State. They were livid over proposals to expand the MWC schedule to 9 that would have left them with one available non-conference date. They don’t like being distant third fiddle in attention paid to them compared to Army and Navy and making Navy a conference game would increase the focus on AFA-Navy.

If AFA is in a big enough snit that they would leave then odds are Colorado State, Wyoming and New Mexico would all be glad to follow.

If AFA doesn’t bolt then AAC’s options narrow. They could probably grab a MAC if they felt a MAC helped. No one in Sun Belt fits the past expansion model because Georgia State isn’t good enough at least right now. So they can take two CUSA or four. I wouldn’t rule out them making a run at St Louis and Dayton to bolster hoops and settle for 10 in football, I think St Louis would jump, I’m not so sure Dayton would.

So AFA is mad because the conference isn’t giving more money to Boise State instead of doing what everyone in the conference agreed to? EDIT: I mis-read your point about the revenue sharing agreement. AFA is angry that more money is being funneled to Boise State instead of being shared equally among conference members.

If AFA feels constrained in their scheduling, why not go independent? The service academies can survive as an independent as well as anyone.

Edited September 17, 2021 by keith

casual fan · September 17, 2021

Thoughts:

1. The Big 12 is stronger now than when they had OU and UT.

2. The Big 12 should go after Boise, AFA, Liberty and one more school.

3. CUSA should try to expand to 16 teams.

keith · September 17, 2021

25 minutes ago, casual fan said:

Thoughts:

1. The Big 12 is stronger now than when they had OU and UT.

2. The Big 12 should go after Boise, AFA, Liberty and one more school.

3. CUSA should try to expand to 16 teams.

I do think that 16 will ultimately be the minimum number. I can also see scenarios where more than 16 is better.

Not sure what constitutes stronger, but the B12 is not as top heavy now so maybe that’s better for the conference.

I’ve said in another thread that CUSA should offer App State and Louisiana immediately.

casual fan · September 17, 2021

5 hours ago, keith said:

Not sure what constitutes stronger, but the B12 is not as top heavy now so maybe that’s better for the conference.

Having 12 teams helps a ton. Getting a footprint in Florida and the mid west also helps. With the addition of BYU, C Florida, Cincinnati, and Houston, the Big 12 now covers a big chunk of the country. The 4 new schools are all solid football and basketball programs. The Big 12 was most likely better in basketball than the SEC already, but adding Cincinnati and the other 3 schools makes them better.

Wag Tag · September 17, 2021

9 hours ago, keith said:

There is nothing left in the AAC that makes it appealing for UNT. Do we really want to be associated with small private schools or ECU or Temple? Really? Memphis, I get, sort of, but for how long. Historically we have some sort of unnatural desire to be in the same conference with SMU. We need to get over it. We cannot let ourselves be defined by an association with “that school in Dallas.”

The best thing to happen for UNT in this phase is for the AAC to go after UTSA and the MWC to come after us. The sooner we separate ourselves from UTSA and forget about SMU, the better we will be. It will be a much better spot for us.

I would be happy playing Tulsa and Tulane. As always I feel the MWC would be great with the addition of some Texas schools.

Got5onIt · September 17, 2021

Mark my words, just because it’s ol’ North Texas, no matter what conference NT moves to, it will somehow end up worse than CUSA. That’s just how the football gods treat us….

The MWC needs a presence in Texas. Take NT, UTEP, and LaTech.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Got5onIt

TheColonyEagle · September 17, 2021

Here's another thought (man I need to get some positive vibes going for my Mean Green....)

But again....what worries me is we jump to the current MWC. Yea! Then a few months later, Boise and three more well known programs bolt. And then the MWC puts the equivalent of ODU in. I seem to recall that exact scenario happening when we went to CUSA. (not that ECU is Boise, but....)

Point is, I hope Wren is getting assurances that Boise and the rest are staying. Whatever "assurances" are worth.

MDH · September 17, 2021

4 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

Here's another thought (man I need to get some positive vibes going for my Mean Green....)

But again....what worries me is we jump to the current MWC. Yea! Then a few months later, Boise and three more well known programs bolt. And then the MWC puts the equivalent of ODU in. I seem to recall that exact scenario happening when we went to CUSA. (not that ECU is Boise, but....)

Point is, I hope Wren is getting assurances that Boise and the rest are staying. Whatever "assurances" are worth.

I hear that - the one thing the western states lack are back-fill. If Anyone were to leave the MWC, FCS is your only option, and there's a very big difference between Big West and MWC schools. If you held a gun to my head...Montana? Montana State? I really don't know who could come up from FCS out west.

keith · September 17, 2021

Looking forward to the day when people are worried that UNT is the school that may bolt and weaken the conference.

TheColonyEagle · September 17, 2021

31 minutes ago, MDH said:

I hear that - the one thing the western states lack are back-fill. If Anyone were to leave the MWC, FCS is your only option, and there's a very big difference between Big West and MWC schools. If you held a gun to my head...Montana? Montana State? I really don't know who could come up from FCS out west.

There are some pretty solid FCS teams in that part of the country...good point.

North Dakota St comes to mind

edit: I guess technically NDSU isn’t “in” that part of the country but it’s cold

Edited September 17, 2021 by TheColonyEagle

MeanGreenTexan · September 17, 2021

11 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Exactly. And I think that if the MWC doesn’t lose anyone to another conference—think Big 12 more than AAC—they would be extremely smart to go west. If they got UTEP, UTSA, UNT, and Rice, you get 4 huge TV markets that you don’t have now. And you get inroads into bowls in El Paso, San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Frisco, and Ft. Worth. That’s a win/win for all parties, in my opinion.

Yes!
If MWC jumps to a 16-team format, they would ideally move to a "pod" style with 4 4-team pods, in which the 4 Texas schools would obviously be our own pod. Something like this:
"Texas Pod"
UNT, UTEP, UTSA, Rice (or, if Rice joins their old C-USA buddies in AAC, then LATech)
"I-25 Pod" or whatever...
UNM, Air Force, COSt. Wyoming
"NorthWest Pod" or whatever...
Boise St, UTSt, SJSU, NV
"SouthWest Pod" or whatever...
UNLV, Fresno St, SDSU, Hawaii

The "Texas Pod" would play crossover games with the "I-25" pod of UNM, COSt, Air Force, & Wyoming, as well as just 1 game against one of the far-west teams (and that would be a home game every other year).

So ideally, there would be just 1 game every other year on West Coast Time. And there would be only 2 games per year on Mountain Time. Meanwhile, we still get to keep the nearby "rivalries" we built up with our C-USA Texas peers. That is MORE THAN DO-ABLE.

I wish people could understand this. Moving to the MWC is not a bad thing for UNT.
As long as Judy is at the helm of C-USA, we're doing nothing but getting worse. We have to get her out, or get out ourselves, and honestly, the latter would be best.