Seth now officially on the hot seat

[untjim1995]

43 minutes ago, greenminer said:

You're not wrong: the precedent is that a coach doesn't ever more to a school within the same conference.

This is all contingent on how they view us as a program, which I don't know what they see, but I can tell you my view: UTSA winning for a little over a year doesn't make them a better program.  UNT losing like we have, even as bad as its been, doesn't make us the worse program.

I guess some of you all (not necessarily you) think our program is a dumpster fire right now.

Todd Graham left Rice for Tulsa while both were in CUSA

[UNTLifer]

The funny thing to me is that we are on page three of this thread and 99.9% of the posters on this site predicted prior to the season that we would get beat handily by smuT, yet everyone is reacting to a thread titled "Seth is now officially on the hot seat" when he isn't officially on the hot seat.  Carry on.

[untjim1995]

1 hour ago, rcade said:

Multiple reporters including Brett McMurphy were told by sources that it got as far as contract negotiations. That sounds more likely to me than the idea that Seth Littrell's agent Jimmy Sexton -- who also represented 11 SEC head coaches and seven NFL coaches as of 2019 -- would lie to a major college reporter just to boost one of his G5 clients.

Don't waste your time here...it isn't worth it, trust me

[MeanGreenTexan]

7 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I'm not really arguing with your thought process because you're mostly right. But Dan Mullen comes to mind, his move from Mississippi State to Florida. 

Nice catch!
Mullen went from a team that usually lives in the doldrums of the SEC to a football blueblood and got $1.5million/yr raise.    Cant fault the guy there.   Plus, Dak just graduated, and Mullen knew what was behind Dak wasn't nearly as good.   So strike while the iron's hot!

 

 

7 minutes ago, rcade said:

The debate is whether a move from UTSA to UNT would be a step down, not whether Traylor would actually do it.

...

The move being a step down for who?    UTSA's Head Coach, right?
I mean, I gotta think that if Wren Baker moved on and whoever UTSA's AD is was called on by Smatresk, they'd jump at the opportunity.   Because overall, NT is in a better position.

I don't think we can say the same thing about the HC job when comparing the two though.  And like the Mullen citing above, I would hardly call UNT a football blueblood.

[rcade]

On 9/12/2021 at 7:38 PM, WanderingEagle said:

Art Briles cannot coach here. He just can't. We cannot let that happen.

I know it sounds tantalizing. He boosted Houston and Baylor to soaring heights. He is an offensive guru. He gets us to G5 elite status, and quickly, if all goes according to plan.

But man, the negative PR is just. Not. Worth it. It's one thing to be irrelevant and meh. It's another to be irrelevant and meh and be nationally hated. You risk universally being disliked across the CFB landscape on the offchance you win, not BECAUSE you're winning, which is different. 

We all know and saw what Briles did for Baylor. It's tempting. But we can't do it. 

 

You make good points, but Baylor had two of the largest coaching scandals in NCAA football and basketball history and didn't end up irrelevant and nationally hated. If a Truly Awful Person could get UNT into the G5 elite it would be pretty tempting to hire him and find out how many Hail Marys we had to say to make up for it.

Edited September 15, 2021 by rcade

[untjim1995]

2 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

The funny thing to me is that we are on page three of this thread and 99.9% of the posters on this site predicted prior to the season that we would get beat handily by smuT, yet everyone is reacting to a thread titled "Seth is now officially on the hot seat" when he isn't officially on the hot seat.  Carry on.

I think he is certainly a warm seat. If he has a season with 3 or less wins, only beating dregs of the conference, like UTEP or Rice, I think he will be gone. If he can get to 4 wins, I think that the leadership will bite down hard and recognize the cost to get rid of him and bring him back for one more season. And if we get to 6 wins, he will probably get extended here.

Its all in front of him--but man, that schedule ahead of us is brutal for where we are right now. Its gonna be really hard to get to 6 wins with UAB, LT, MIzzou, Marshall, and Liberty ahead. If we aren't completely beaten down mentally and physically, I can see us getting the other 3 wins that I think gets him back. But its gonna be real close...

[UNTLifer]

21 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Its all in front of him--but man, that schedule ahead of us is brutal for where we are right now. Its gonna be really hard to get to 6 wins with UAB, LT, MIzzou, Marshall, and Liberty ahead. If we aren't completely beaten down mentally and physically, I can see us getting the other 3 wins that I think gets him back. But its gonna be real close...

My main point was that we discussed this ad nauseum prior to the season beginning.  Most on here predicted us to by 1-1 at this point with the majority expecting smu to run all over us, which they did not.

Honestly, I don't think any of the teams noted above have shown anything this year that should scare us.  UAB beat a FBS team handily and were hammered by Georgia.  La Tech followed up a game they should have won at MS St. with a squeaker vs. SELA.  It would take a great game by us to beat Missouri.  Marshall hasn't really played anyone yet and are about to hit a stretch, vs. ECU, @ App St., that should reveal who they really are and Liberty has a great QB but only beat Troy by 8 after handling Campbell to open the season.

If, If the defense continues to improve and Ruder gets settled in, I don't think reaching the six wins that many think it will take for Littrell to be retained will be that difficult.  All we can do is play the games and see what happens, but knee jerking after playing smu tough at smu while many expected a blowout is jumping the gun a little bit.

[UNTcrazy727]

36 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

The funny thing to me is that we are on page three of this thread and 99.9% of the posters on this site predicted prior to the season that we would get beat handily by smuT, yet everyone is reacting to a thread titled "Seth is now officially on the hot seat" when he isn't officially on the hot seat.  Carry on.

I agree. Based on how some people have been freaking out you'd think we were the team favored by 22.5. 

But I do think Seth's seat is hot. I don't think he's back if he doesn't win at least 5 games. A lot of people will disagree with that, pointing to our history of holding on to coaches for too long, but I don't think Wren and Smatresk will let the program flounder. They've invested too much. 

[untjim1995]

32 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

My main point was that we discussed this ad nauseum prior to the season beginning.  Most on here predicted us to by 1-1 at this point with the majority expecting smu to run all over us, which they did not.

Honestly, I don't think any of the teams noted above have shown anything this year that should scare us.  UAB beat a FBS team handily and were hammered by Georgia.  La Tech followed up a game they should have won at MS St. with a squeaker vs. SELA.  It would take a great game by us to beat Missouri.  Marshall hasn't really played anyone yet and are about to hit a stretch, vs. ECU, @ App St., that should reveal who they really are and Liberty has a great QB but only beat Troy by 8 after handling Campbell to open the season.

If, If the defense continues to improve and Ruder gets settled in, I don't think reaching the six wins that many think it will take for Littrell to be retained will be that difficult.  All we can do is play the games and see what happens, but knee jerking after playing smu tough at smu while many expected a blowout is jumping the gun a little bit.

I agree that nothing has really changed for us or SL. But you know as well as anyone that losing to SMU around here looks like investors jumping off the ledge when the stock market crashes. It is silly and not in your best interest to put that much into the SMU game, yet here we are, year after year, looking like Charlie Brown flailing while Lucy holds the ball yet again. Our fanbase cannot handle it. 

[WanderingEagle]

1 hour ago, rcade said:

You make good points, but Baylor had two of the largest coaching scandals in NCAA football and basketball history and didn't end up irrelevant and nationally hated. If a Truly Awful Person could get UNT into the G5 elite it would be pretty tempting to hire him and find out how many Hail Marys we had to say to make up for it.

Because Baylor made probably the greatest turnaround hires in the history of college sports with Matt Rhule and Scott Drew. The people who gave/give Baylor and schools like them flack will come for North Texas HARD if Briles is hired here.

[TheColonyEagle]

IMHO, coming off back to back 4 win seasons, Littrell’s seat was warm before the season started. Up to him to cool it off. 

[greenminer]

8 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Football program...  there's smoke coming from the dumpster, and it's kinda hot to the touch.

Final thought on this: Our football program is failing because Seth isn’t getting it done, not because the program itself is awful. We offer top dollar for you and your staff, great facilities, and you can recruit from an immediate region that includes DFW, Louisiana, and Oklahoma.

[cogido]

8 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

It is silly and not in your best interest to put that much into the SMU game, yet here we are, year after year, looking like Charlie Brown flailing while Lucy holds the ball yet again. Our fanbase cannot handle it. 

Realistically you’re probably right.  BUT...The UNT fan base (that can’t handle it) is the same group that buys tickets, goes to games and stays hyped about UNT despite its losses - this IS the metroplex fan base that does indeed want to see their team beat That Team From Dallas.  They are indeed the true fan base - who else gives a flip !??

[PlummMeanGreen]

All of us are on the hot seat in many ways. If you have a job—you’re on the hot seat; that is, unless you’re self-employed & then you need to be one helluva’ self-starter. 

🏆 👍👍 Most on GMG admirably attend North Texas home games, but for the fence-riding moderate fans, they join all of us being on the hot seat to “show up” at Apogee as to help “grow up” our football program.  Attendance (still) has very much to do with future re-alignment possibilities.  Stadium size seems to. After all, UH did build a 40,000 seat stadium & now look at em’? 

Honestly, I always thought ex conference-mate Boise State who draws quite well at their expanded home stadium should have been our role model through the years—not schools who don’t. 

❇️🦅❇️

Edited September 16, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

[jtm0097]

"Officially"

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

9 hours ago, greenminer said:

Final thought on this: Our football program is failing because Seth isn’t getting it done, not because the program itself is awful. We offer top dollar for you and your staff, great facilities, and you can recruit from an immediate region that includes DFW, Louisiana, and Oklahoma.

All of this is correct.
But when people are saying, "Hey!  Let's just throw a couple hundred thousand dollar raises at Bill Clark or Jeff Traylor if Littrell gets fired!  They'll come because of <the reasons you cited above, but mostly for the extra money>!!!"
I don't think these folks are thinking like a HFC...  Because those guys are not coming here to rebuild.

[RBP79]

So if SL wins 6 he's still in. Then goes bowling and once again gets hammered. That's good enough to keep him????

At this time this is UNT Football.....

"EMBRACE THE SUCK"

[MeanGreenTexan]

4 minutes ago, RBP79 said:

So if SL wins 6 he's still in. Then goes bowling and once again gets hammered. That's good enough to keep him????

At this time this is UNT Football.....

"EMBRACE THE SUCK"

Probably.    Less than 6 wins and he should be gone... unless something crazy like both Ruder & Aune, Novil, and Torrey miss multiple games for whatever reasons.

[untjim1995]

2 hours ago, RBP79 said:

So if SL wins 6 he's still in. Then goes bowling and once again gets hammered. That's good enough to keep him????

At this time this is UNT Football.....

"EMBRACE THE SUCK"

I bet its even less than that. I think 4-5 wins does the trick, as paying out $3 million in buyouts for SL and his staff and then paying out millions more for a new staff is not something that will be easy to fund here.

[MeanGreenTexan]

21 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

I bet its even less than that. I think 4-5 wins does the trick, as paying out $3 million in buyouts for SL and his staff and then paying out millions more for a new staff is not something that will be easy to fund here.

If Wren Baker hasn't already planned for this (he's had 2 years now to get finances in order), HE needs to be on the hot seat too.   He cannot be surprised by the need to get rid of Littrell if he coughs up yet another losing season.     

This should have been discussed with Littrell at the exit interviews from last season:   
"Another losing season, and you're gone.   Don't let it happen again.   We'll do anything and everything we can to get you back to winning (hello 2-year contract with Bennett & his son in law), but you need to produce.  NOW!"

[Jonnyeagle]

14 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

If Wren Baker hasn't already planned for this (he's had 2 years now to get finances in order), HE needs to be on the hot seat too.   He cannot be surprised by the need to get rid of Littrell if he coughs up yet another losing season.     

This should have been discussed with Littrell at the exit interviews from last season:   
"Another losing season, and you're gone.   Don't let it happen again.   We'll do anything and everything we can to get you back to winning (hello 2-year contract with Bennett & his son in law), but you need to produce.  NOW!"

Wren hasn’t fired one coach since he has been here and Inseriously doubt he has plans to fire one that has such a huge buyout as his first!

[meangreenJW]

25 minutes ago, Jonnyeagle said:

Wren hasn’t fired one coach since he has been here and Inseriously doubt he has plans to fire one that has such a huge buyout as his first!

I can't remember her name but I think softball was fired. And not renewing a contract (i.e. Benford) is pretty much the same IMO. But I agree that's a huge buyout to weigh. And if we get in a different conference, seems like we'll owe several million to CUSA to exit so timing is probably not ideal.

[TheColonyEagle]

What’s more costly to our school. Paying a buyout or keeping a losing coach. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 hours ago, Jonnyeagle said:

Wren hasn’t fired one coach since he has been here and Inseriously doubt he has plans to fire one that has such a huge buyout as his first!

He's already 1 step ahead (which to me, proves he's on the right path & has a plan in place) by re-structuring Littrell's deal to not be on the hook for the entirety of the buyout when Littrell gets an OC job somewhere.   Depending on where he goes (I would think MSSt would be a good option, because the Pirate's offense is not looking so hot), the buyout could be very small.
For instance, MSSt doesn't currently have an OC, but their DC makes $900k/yr, so if Littrell got that amount, his buyout would only be around $600k/yr instead of $1.7mil/yr!

[MeanGreen01]

Like to see us pick up La Tech’s coach Skip Holtz or Art Briles. We need to start winning and getting into the preferred conferences.