UTSA ROADRUNNERS

GrandGreen · September 8, 2021

24 minutes ago, meaniegreenie said:

Not only did dropping to 1-AA give us a horrible black-eye, it also exemplified the complete lack of support from the administration for athletics that continued even after we returned. Between the timing of this (relative to what was happening across all of FB) and the fact that we didn't return with an immediately successful team (like Boise) has left us with a permanent "lower-tier" stigma that we may never be able to erase.

Its win or else like it has always been.

NT's football status has absolutely nothing to do with dropping to 1aa, ages ago.

With the one of the highest budgets in the league, NT seems to take sports seriously.

Anybody can rave and rant about not matching Boise St. There are only a handful of schools with Boise's record over the last 15 years.

NorthTexasSportsNetwork · September 8, 2021

Their fans are currently burning clothing since UTSA took away the "Come and Take it" slogan

wardly · September 8, 2021

11 hours ago, meaniegreenie said:

Not only did dropping to 1-AA give us a horrible black-eye, it also exemplified the complete lack of support from the administration for athletics that continued even after we returned. Between the timing of this (relative to what was happening across all of FB) and the fact that we didn't return with an immediately successful team (like Boise) has left us with a permanent "lower-tier" stigma that we may never be able to erase.

UAB dropped their program for a few years, which has to be a step beyond moving down to 1AA, and doesn't seem to have suffered from a "black eye".They have rebuilt a program in a state they share with Auburn and Alabama. I can't believe some of us are still using our reclassification to 1AA as an excuse for today's failure. Get over it. Boise is the only D1 program in the state, so you are not comparing apples to apples when you reference their success.

CaribbeanGreen · September 8, 2021

10 hours ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

Their fans are currently burning clothing since UTSA took away the "Come and Take it" slogan

Both of them?

greenminer · September 8, 2021

22 minutes ago, wardly said:

UAB dropped their program for a few years, which has to be a step beyond moving down to 1AA, and doesn't seem to have suffered from a "black eye".They have rebuilt a program in a state they share with Auburn and Alabama. I can't believe some of us are still using our reclassification to 1AA as an excuse for today's failure. Get over it. Boise is the only D1 program in the state, so you are not comparing apples to apples when you reference their success.

I want to agree with you about the 1AA excuses, but IMO the UAB situation is nothing like it. You could argue it actually helped propel their program. With the new hire, the NCAA eligibility waivers/exceptions, they basically had some testosterone injected into their program and Clark has been great to carry that into championship momentum. They were off one or two years, with a pissed off fanbase that was ready to blaze a new trail when they resumed.

We had a terrible culture, a deficit of 1.6 million, and a fanbase that - for the most part - gladly accepted this defeat. Then we sat in that mindset for 10+ years.

Withers940 · September 8, 2021

10 hours ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

Their fans are currently burning clothing since UTSA took away the "Come and Take it" slogan

I get their frustrations with that being taken away but burning their jerseys and clothing is a little drastic.

I saw on twitter last night, this dude had a like a 10 tweet diatribe about how UTSA just lost a fan and how he's never going to go to another UTSA game. LOL

Edited September 8, 2021 by Withers940

El Paso Eagle · September 8, 2021

49 minutes ago, wardly said:

UAB dropped their program for a few years, which has to be a step beyond moving down to 1AA, and doesn't seem to have suffered from a "black eye".They have rebuilt a program in a state they share with Auburn and Alabama. I can't believe some of us are still using our reclassification to 1AA as an excuse for today's failure. Get over it. Boise is the only D1 program in the state, so you are not comparing apples to apples when you reference their success.

UAB's was a strategic move; almost like a company filing for bankruptcy and reorganizing. They always planned on returning. They used it to be able to clean hose and get boosters to get behind them.

Agree the 1AA is old. Our problem is after coming back there was not a commitment to building a FBS level program. Up until recently we had arguably to worst relationships with Texas HS coaches of any D1 programs in the state, and it probably wasn't even close. We wasted the opportunity with letting Dodge bring his HS staff. Seth and Wren, while the bottom line for fans is winning, have built a better foundation in the last 5 years than the previous groups combined since we returned from 1AA.

Edited September 8, 2021 by El Paso Eagle

peanuts104 · September 8, 2021

On 9/7/2021 at 10:04 AM, wardly said:

It's one thing for SMU to blow past us by taking advantage of the transfer portal, which they have done better that nearly everyone. How did UTSA leave us in the dust with a first year coach? How does a 6th year UNT coach save his job with 4 or 5 wins? Is the world really flat?

There has been one game this season. One. And I think I over react holy ****

GrandGreen · September 8, 2021

13 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

UAB's was a strategic move; almost like a company filing for bankruptcy and reorganizing. They always planned on returning. They used it to be able to clean hose and get boosters to get behind them.

Agree the 1AA is old. Our problem is after coming back there was not a commitment to building a FBS level program. Up until recently we had arguably to worst relationships with Texas HS coaches of any D1 programs in the state, and it probably wasn't even close. We wasted the opportunity with letting Dodge bring his HS staff. Seth and Wren, while the bottom line for fans is winning, have built a better foundation in the last 5 years than the previous groups combined since we returned from 1AA.

I am not sure where this worst relationship with Texas high school coaches comes from. Did someone take a survey?

I just don't think Corky or obviously Dodge did not have good high school relationships. McCarney and Simon maybe because they didn't have big Texas connections, but neither does a bunch of other head college coaches that have been very successful in the state. UT, A&M and TCU all have hc's that are not from Texas.

I think a lot of high school coaches were supportive of NT, many just because they wanted their second tier players to get a ship in Denton. High school coaches, too many alumni, and fans in general just did not view NT as a significant program.

The hiring of Dr. Pohl about 20 years ago, marked the beginning of a NT administration that saw value in investing in athletics. So I think that foundation started there, not with the current AD and coaches.

TheColonyEagle · September 8, 2021

If we had made really good coaching hires and won more games and gotten ranked and beaten more P5s no one would care about the drop down to 1AA 40 years ago.

But we didn't.

El Paso Eagle · September 8, 2021

40 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

I am not sure where this worst relationship with Texas high school coaches comes from. Did someone take a survey?

I just don't think Corky or obviously Dodge did not have good high school relationships. McCarney and Simon maybe because they didn't have big Texas connections, but neither does a bunch of other head college coaches that have been very successful in the state. UT, A&M and TCU all have hc's that are not from Texas.

I think a lot of high school coaches were supportive of NT, many just because they wanted their second tier players to get a ship in Denton. High school coaches, too many alumni, and fans in general just did not view NT as a significant program.

The hiring of Dr. Pohl about 20 years ago, marked the beginning of a NT administration that saw value in investing in athletics. So I think that foundation started there, not with the current AD and coaches.

When Seth came in there were stories of coaches in the DFW area who said that UNT never visited. I have a friend who officiated n East Texas and he told me more than once that coaches told him that we visited less than any other D1 school in the state.

untjim1995 · September 8, 2021

For those who think that the i-aa fiasco doesn't matter for today, look at our alumni giving to athletics, look at our pathetic conference setup, look at the media perception the DFW media members look at us and report on us compared to SMU and TCU.

We nuked decades of fans, many of whom would be at a prime age to be giving back to the program, especially if we had never dropped down and would be in the AAC or MWC today, which is what I think we would have been, if we hadn't dropped down and stayed there for 12 freaking years.

Seriously, how anyone can justify a belief that North Texas alumni from the 60s thru the 90s being able to donate at much larger levels, both in number and in dollars, but not doing so because we basically gave up and they lost any possible interest--its just unfathomable to me to believe that hasn't had any effect on the program today. Look at how many UNT Alums you all know that are gigantic fans of the power schools around here and have adopted them as their school, giving them their interest and money for tickets, apparel, souvenirs, etc...you almost have to be an ostrich to not see this.

GrandGreen · September 8, 2021

38 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

When Seth came in there were stories of coaches in the DFW area who said that UNT never visited. I have a friend who officiated n East Texas and he told me more than once that coaches told him that we visited less than any other D1 school in the state.

And yet NT historically gets the vast majority of football players from Texas and that without ever visiting the coaches.

I really think again a lot of this goes back to some hs coaches who just believed that NT was not deserving to get their best players and NT should be happy getting their players with no other D! offers.

What you are saying is that NT didn't work very hard at recruiting, and I firmly believe that this was the case in the Dickey era. A Dickey quote at one time is that he never offered a player a scholarship that they did not accept.

No, because he waiting patiently for NT's turn after the majority of the Texas school were through recruiting.

TheColonyEagle · September 8, 2021

32 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

For those who think that the i-aa fiasco doesn't matter for today, look at our alumni giving to athletics, look at our pathetic conference setup, look at the media perception the DFW media members look at us and report on us compared to SMU and TCU.

We nuked decades of fans, many of whom would be at a prime age to be giving back to the program, especially if we had never dropped down and would be in the AAC or MWC today, which is what I think we would have been, if we hadn't dropped down and stayed there for 12 freaking years.

Seriously, how anyone can justify a belief that North Texas alumni from the 60s thru the 90s being able to donate at much larger levels, both in number and in dollars, but not doing so because we basically gave up and they lost any possible interest--its just unfathomable to me to believe that hasn't had any effect on the program today. Look at how many UNT Alums you all know that are gigantic fans of the power schools around here and have adopted them as their school, giving them their interest and money for tickets, apparel, souvenirs, etc...you almost have to be an ostrich to not see this.

You don’t think if we had mixed in some 10, 11 win seasons, beaten P5s, challenged for the NY6, been ranked several times that the drop down’s effect on the program would be non existent?

None of that matters if we win like Boise, Cincy, UCF, USF, Memphis. None of which have the kind of conference affiliation history of SMU and TCU. They have more in common with UNT than SMU and TCU do. Considering we were actually IN conferences with some of them not that long ago. Did Cincy moving to CUSA in 1995 help them as we were coming out of 1AA? We played them and beat them in a bowl game 7 years later in front of about 3,000 of their fans. Look at them now. USF was working out of trailers and didn’t exist before the year 2000. Yet they have more 10, 11 and 9 win seasons than we do. They’ve been ranked 7 different times and got as high as #2 in the country. What they all have in common is great coaching hires. All of which have gone on to power house programs. My only point is If we had hired coaches like they did, the drop down wouldn’t matter.

I’m not saying the drop down didn’t hurt. It did for a while. But not as much as our coaching hires.

Big Z · September 8, 2021

Why do we always feel like we have to pay a coach at least a million dollars?

Especially for a crappy conference we play in. The Sun Belt has done more with less….let that soak in.

Final thought - I wish they would ask kids applying to UNT if they really want to be here? Is the school really getting the kind of high school kids we really want? I even work with a UNT alum and he roots for dang Arkansas.

untjim1995 · September 8, 2021

3 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

You don’t think if we had mixed in some 10, 11 win seasons, beaten P5s, challenged for the NY6, been ranked several times that the drop down’s effect on the program would be non existent?

None of that matters if we win like Boise, Cincy, UCF, USF, Memphis. None of which have the kind of conference affiliation history of SMU and TCU. They have more in common with UNT than SMU and TCU do. Considering we were actually IN conferences with some of them not that long ago. Did Cincy moving to CUSA in 1995 help them as we were coming out of 1AA? We played them and beat them in a bowl game 7 years later in front of about 3,000 of their fans. Look at them now. USF was working out of trailers and didn’t exist before the year 2000. Yet they have more 10, 11 and 9 win seasons than we do. They’ve been ranked 7 different times and got as high as #2 in the country. What they all have in common is great coaching hires. All of which have gone on to power house programs. My only point is If we had hired coaches like they did, the drop down wouldn’t matter.

I’m not saying the drop down didn’t hurt. It did for a while. But not as much as our coaching hires.

I completely agree. Winning and being ranked probably would have changed all of what has followed since 1982. But beating Cincy and the other SBC teams from 2001-2004 never did it--at all. Remember, Cincy and USF, much like UCF, Boise State, and now UTSA, have NEVER had to deal with nuking their fanbase and the potential funding that got abolished with that decision for 12 years. We paid out less than $300k for a head football coach from 1995 until we hired DMac in 2011. Coordinators and position coaches got paid more or similar to that amount at several other schools. Why? Well, certainly the university absolutely didn't care about it enough to even try, even keeping an AD around who only cared about staying in budget and getting extension after extension. But said AD made a new path with 17 donors to pay for extra stuff--which is getting back to my point. Name another school that has played football for as long as we have, with the location we have, and we had all of 17 people who were developed into what we considered BMDs around here? I mean, seriously, anyone where else in the region, save for ULM, Texas State, and UTSA, probably have quadruple that amount (at the least). Schools like ULL, Arkansas State, La Tech, and Rice don't have our enrollment, which is what our budget gets primarily funded by. Its why Wren Baker sends out flyers to us that show how very little our alumni give back, compared especially to the old SWC peers in Texas. Again, that answer goes back to the administration not caring about the program until 2011, which is why we have seen those generations of alumni go follow the other power teams instead. That's my point.

TheColonyEagle · September 8, 2021

Head coach destinations from successful G5s the past few years:

Cincy: Mark Dantonio-Mich St, Bryan Kelly-Notre Dame, Luke Fickel (any job he wants)

UCF: Scott Frost-Nebraska, Josh Heupel-Tennessee

USF: Willie Taggert-Oregon

Boise: Chris Peterson-Washington, Bryan Harsin-Auburn

Memphis: Justin Fuente-Virginia Tech, Mike Norvell - Florida St

How many coaches has Arkansas St moved up? App St? ULL has one now that has his choice of jobs.

North Texas in about the same time frame (W/L): Matt Simon(18-26), Darryl Dickey(42-64), Todd Dodge(6-37...holy shit), Dan McCarney(22-32), Seth Littrell (32-31)

Edited September 8, 2021 by TheColonyEagle

untjim1995 · September 8, 2021

2 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

Head coach destinations from successful G5s the past few years:

Cincy: Mark Dantonio-Mich St, Bryan Kelly-Notre Dame, Luke Fickel (any job he wants)

UCF: Scott Frost-Nebraska, Josh Heupel-Tennessee

USF: Willie Taggert-Oregon

Boise: Chris Peterson-Washington, Bryan Harsin-Auburn

Memphis: Justin Fuente-Virginia Tech, Mike Norvell - Florida St

North Texas in about the same time frame (W/L): Matt Simon(18-26), Darryl Dickey(42-64), Todd Dodge(6-37...holy shit), Dan McCarney(22-32), Seth Littrell (32-31)

Go back even further, since 1967, Rod Rust went 29-32-1, Jerry Moore went 11-11, Bob Tyler went 2-9, Corky Nelson went 48-52-1, and Dennis Parker went 11-21-1.

Only Hayden Fry, from 1973-1978, had a winning record, 40-23-3, when we also beat ranked opponents and also got ranked. And we have nothing to recognize him anywhere near the campus--nothing.

But we do have the Darrell Dickey Practice Fields, MFers...

PlummMeanGreen · September 8, 2021

53 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

You don’t think if we had mixed in some 10, 11 win seasons, beaten P5s, challenged for the NY6, been ranked several times that the drop down’s effect on the program would be non existent?

None of that matters if we win like Boise, Cincy, UCF, USF, Memphis. None of which have the kind of conference affiliation history of SMU and TCU. They have more in common with UNT than SMU and TCU do. Considering we were actually IN conferences with some of them not that long ago. Did Cincy moving to CUSA in 1995 help them as we were coming out of 1AA? We played them and beat them in a bowl game 7 years later in front of about 3,000 of their fans. Look at them now. USF was working out of trailers and didn’t exist before the year 2000. Yet they have more 10, 11 and 9 win seasons than we do. They’ve been ranked 7 different times and got as high as #2 in the country. What they all have in common is great coaching hires. All of which have gone on to power house programs. My only point is If we had hired coaches like they did, the drop down wouldn’t matter.

I’m not saying the drop down didn’t hurt. It did for a while. But not as much as our coaching hires.

You nailed it,TheColonyEagle.👍👍 In my 4+ decades I’m pretty sure I can count on 2 hands UNT staff who advanced from their present job at UNT to a higher level NCAA job. Not sure how we could get it wrong so many times since 1978, but we did.

IMO AD Wren Baker will help us make up for much lost time if we don’t lose him because we didn’t do our part like for starters is—just-show-up? AD’s & Coaches don’t like empty stadiums. Even Fry said he wanted himself, his coaches & his players to play before bigger audiences.

Show Time: Our borderline fans & students need to show up even when the weather is not a perfect 72 degrees with blue skies & a gentle breeze. I don’t think Wren will live in the past & adopt the old “that just can’t be done in Denton” mantra. He shows no signs of ever doing that.

Our future couldn’t be brighter if we’ll just leave the past & past habits where they belong & all try to advance our thinking as a program on the grow & on the go.

🦅

Edited September 8, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

TheColonyEagle · September 8, 2021

9 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Go back even further, since 1967, Rod Rust went 29-32-1, Jerry Moore went 11-11, Bob Tyler went 2-9, Corky Nelson went 48-52-1, and Dennis Parker went 11-21-1.

Only Hayden Fry, from 1973-1978, had a winning record, 40-23-3, when we also beat ranked opponents and also got ranked. And we have nothing to recognize him anywhere near the campus--nothing.

But we do have the Darrell Dickey Practice Fields, MFers...

I hear you.....I just think some programs have performed really well in the BCS era and beyond. That's when college football changed. We haven't. I'll bet Arkansas St or La Tech (even though their fans wouldn't admit it) would LOVE to have our situation and location. If we don't raise our bar, we will never advance. Shiny new buildings are great but 10 win seasons, multiple conference championships, beating ranked teams, getting in the top 25. That should be our bar. All we need is the right head coach. If they can do it in Ruston, LA or Bowling Green, KY, then anyone can. The next coach we get to raise that bar will be the first one (in modern college football)

Edited September 8, 2021 by TheColonyEagle

untjim1995 · September 8, 2021

2 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I hear you.....I just think some programs have performed really well in the BCS era and beyond. That's when college football changed. We haven't. I'll bet Arkansas St or La Tech (even though their fans wouldn't admit it) would LOVE to have our situation and location. If we don't raise our bar, we will never advance. Shiny new buildings are great but 10 win seasons, multiple conference championships, beating ranked teams, getting in the top 25. That should be our bar. All we need is the right head coach. If they can do it in Ruston, LA or Bowling Green, KY, then anyone can. The next coach we get to raise that bar will be the first one (in modern college football)

I do agree on the last part, for sure. If SL gets replaced after this season, and I don't think he will because of his enormous buyout, he will not be leaving the cupboard bare. It will be a million times better than what he found when he got here and immediately recognized that he had no QB on the roster who could play at this level.

TheColonyEagle · September 8, 2021

3 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I do agree on the last part, for sure. If SL gets replaced after this season, and I don't think he will because of his enormous buyout, he will not be leaving the cupboard bare. It will be a million times better than what he found when he got here and immediately recognized that he had no QB on the roster who could play at this level.

Agree....we have arguably the best talent we've had on both sides of the ball coming back next year. If SL does leave after this year....and we get the right guy....we could do something really special.

Or maybe SL surprises me and he goes 10-3 this year

Edited September 8, 2021 by TheColonyEagle

El Paso Eagle · September 8, 2021

1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

I completely agree. Winning and being ranked probably would have changed all of what has followed since 1982. But beating Cincy and the other SBC teams from 2001-2004 never did it--at all. Remember, Cincy and USF, much like UCF, Boise State, and now UTSA, have NEVER had to deal with nuking their fanbase and the potential funding that got abolished with that decision for 12 years.

I sometimes wonder if our success in the SBC was as much of a curse as a blessing. The total OOC failure of the teams in the SBC only highlighted to the football world how bad the conference was. We did not gain any respect due to the conference's weakness. Our domination, in conjunction with our own OOC problems, made the conference seems even weaker. Success under Dodge could have been a game changer.

PlummMeanGreen · September 8, 2021

2 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

Agree....we have arguably the best talent we've had on both sides of the ball coming back next year. If SL does leave after this year....and we get the right guy....we could do something really special.

Or maybe SL surprises me and he goes 10-3 this year

6 & 6 would probably do it for our power donors who’ve probably made the $1.6 (?) million possible as it is.

All should listen to UNT recruits. Last night on the Seth Littrell Radio Show I heard 2 of them. They genuinely like Seth Littrell & none of what they say hardly seems scripted. That is worth gold in this new NCAA unbridled (thus far) world of portal transferring & NIL. ••• Seems one of Siggers HS coaches got drafted by SMU’s recruiting guy to talk to him about transferring. (That was not Siggers doing). I wish that would have been addressed at the time, but I think that ship has sailed. (Littrell’s friendship with Dykes would have probably prevented any questioning of such tactics from happening, too).
Personally, I hope SMU eventually gets their 2’nd Death Penalty out of future similar transactions, but how long & how many smu wins before that happens?

TURN EM’ INTO GELDINGS, MEAN GREEN! 🐎🦅

Edited September 8, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

MeanGreen2019 · September 8, 2021

1 hour ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

You nailed it,TheColonyEagle.👍👍 In my 4+ decades I’m pretty sure I can count on 2 hands UNT staff who advanced from their present job at UNT to a higher level NCAA job. Not sure how we could get it wrong so many times since 1978, but we did.

IMO AD Wren Baker will help us make up for much lost time if we don’t lose him because we didn’t do our part like for starters is—just-show-up? AD’s & Coaches don’t like empty stadiums. Even Fry said he wanted himself, his coaches & his players to play before bigger audiences.

Show Time: Our borderline fans & students need to show up even when the weather is not a perfect 72 degrees with blue skies & a gentle breeze. I don’t think Wren will live in the past & adopt the old “that just can’t be done in Denton” mantra. He shows no signs of ever doing that.

Our future couldn’t be brighter if we’ll just leave the past & past habits where they belong & all try to advance our thinking as a program on the grow & on the go.

🦅

Wren is fantastic. I’m a newer fan and alumni (graduated in 2019) and have supported the program since 2016. It will be a while before UNT reaps the rewards from this administration, but the growth over the last 5 years has been insane especially with creating new fans. We will eventually get where we need to go, especially if Wren is here.

As stated above, we just need to keep showing up as a fanbase regardless.