Afghanistan airport image

[greenminer]

2 hours ago, FormerStudent1 said:

Someone needs to call Jimmy Carter. 

HOF first post?

[El Paso Eagle]

Was getting out the right thing to do - without a doubt. But how do you leave without an exit strategy. I have a friend who served three tours there. He said that anyone in authority that is saying they did not expect this is, his words, full of shit. He said it was common knowledge that Afgan army was a "good on paper" force at best and not able to stop any resistance. If this was the best plan we had, then we need a lot of changes in intelligence and military leadership. 

[LongJim]

On 8/25/2021 at 12:45 AM, El Paso Eagle said:

 I have a friend who served three tours there. He said that anyone in authority that is saying they did not expect this is, his words, full of shit. He said it was common knowledge that Afgan army was a "good on paper" force at best and not able to stop any resistance.

I work with a Marine.  He did two tours in Afghanistan.  He said the same thing.

[LongJim]

Can it get worse?  Yes, it can.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/explosion-erupts-outside-kabul-airport-pentagon-says/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=breaking&utm_campaign=newstrack&utm_term=24861201

 

 

[Jonnyeagle]

This is a disaster!  Just watching in the news now.

[El Paso Eagle]

1 hour ago, LongJim said:

I work with a Marine.  He did two tours in Afghanistan.  He said the same thing.

Regardless of the party in charge the problem is Military leadership has become too politicized. More like members of the State Department.

[Rudy]

isis has claimed responsibility.

[LongJim]

"Around 6,000 “self-identified” Americans have left Afghanistan, Blinken said, with “under 200” Americans “who remain in Afghanistan and want to leave. We’re trying to determine exactly how many.” 

*************************************************

I like how the quote is "less than 200".  Instead of "almost 200".

We left almost 200 Americans behind enemy lines in a hostile country. 

Left.  Them.  Behind.

*************************************************

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/blinken-confirms-u-s-left-hundreds-of-americans-behind-in-afghanistan/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MJ_20210831&utm_term=Jolt-Smart

 

[UNTLifer]

4 hours ago, LongJim said:

"Around 6,000 “self-identified” Americans have left Afghanistan, Blinken said, with “under 200” Americans “who remain in Afghanistan and want to leave. We’re trying to determine exactly how many.” 

*************************************************

I like how the quote is "less than 200".  Instead of "almost 200".

We left almost 200 Americans behind enemy lines in a hostile country. 

Left.  Them.  Behind.

*************************************************

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/blinken-confirms-u-s-left-hundreds-of-americans-behind-in-afghanistan/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MJ_20210831&utm_term=Jolt-Smart

 

Blinken is a dirtbag and should be fired along with most of the higher ups in the Pentagon, National Security advisors, etc... and Biden should be shown the door, since he has more pressing things to do than honor our fallen, except that Hyena he has as a VP would be a greater disaster.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/pentagon-americans-stranded-afghanistan-jen-psaki-term-irresponsible

Edited August 31, 2021 by UNTLifer

[UNTLifer]

This is our president:

https://www.businessinsider.com/father-of-marine-killed-kabul-attack-describes-biden-testy-meeting-2021-8

https://www.foxnews.com/media/mother-of-marine-killed-in-kabul-says-biden-rolled-his-fing-eyes-when-she-remembered-son-during-meeting

 

So I guess the "eye-rollers" don't think he did anything wrong and approve of this from our country's leader?  If so, please explain.

Edited September 2, 2021 by UNTLifer
Ask the question of the "eye-rollers" that won't have the nerve to answer

[ColoradoEagle]

10 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

This is our president:

Could be worse. Could've called them losers and suckers.

[UNTLifer]

6 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

Could be worse. Could've called them losers and suckers.

So, you agree with Biden's actions?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/15/trump-says-there-are-25-witnesses-disputing-atlantic-nope/

When faced with a negative story, a common tactic by any government agency — especially the White House — is to seize on one element that may be slightly off in an effort to discredit the entire report. Still, one must also acknowledge that the four individuals for the Atlantic article remain unidentified, compared with the number of people who have denied or disputed elements of the story. The silence of Kelly and Dunford could be taken as tacit confirmation — or simply an unwillingness to defend the president.

Edited September 2, 2021 by UNTLifer

[ColoradoEagle]

17 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

So, you agree with Biden's actions?

Yes. I agree we needed to get out, and the options for doing that were limited by previous administrations. It was never going to be pretty leaving. That's why Bush didn't do it, Obama didn't do it, and Trump didn't do it. Two trillion dollars later, the government we installed fell within 24 hours. I think that's a pretty good case against continuing to spend money and sacrifice American lives in that country.

[UNTLifer]

36 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

Yes. I agree we needed to get out, and the options for doing that were limited by previous administrations. It was never going to be pretty leaving. That's why Bush didn't do it, Obama didn't do it, and Trump didn't do it. Two trillion dollars later, the government we installed fell within 24 hours. I think that's a pretty good case against continuing to spend money and sacrifice American lives in that country.

I agree that we needed to get out, but there was a right way and a wrong.  Biden chose the wrong way, period.

Trump set up stipulations for our removal that kept the terrorists at bay.

Biden:

* Left people behind, something we have never done in the past and something he stated that we would never do.

* Left equipment behind that is now in the hands of terrorists instead of having it either removed or destroyed.

* Left Afghan citizens that helped us.  The Taliban will torture and kill these people and have already started.  Think folks will be so quick to help us in the future.

* Had prisoners/terrorists released from prison that want to conduct harm on our country and allies.

* Weakened our country.

I could go on.  Again, yes, we needed to leave, but it was not handled correctly.

[ColoradoEagle]

28 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I agree that we needed to get out, but there was a right way and a wrong.  Biden chose the wrong way, period.

Trump set up stipulations for our removal that kept the terrorists at bay.

Biden:

* Left people behind, something we have never done in the past and something he stated that we would never do.

* Left equipment behind that is now in the hands of terrorists instead of having it either removed or destroyed.

* Left Afghan citizens that helped us.  The Taliban will torture and kill these people and have already started.  Think folks will be so quick to help us in the future.

* Had prisoners/terrorists released from prison that want to conduct harm on our country and allies.

* Weakened our country.

I could go on.  Again, yes, we needed to leave, but it was not handled correctly.

Trump negotiated directly with the Taliban and cut out the recognized Afghan government from conversations.

The first three things you listed happen in every war. It's not unique to this one. The last two make no sense.

I'm sure there'll be plenty of insight into the evacuation as time goes on. There was no "right way" to leave the country. You can't both say, "We should've taken our time and made sure every last soul was out" and on the other hand say, "I can't believe there was a terrorist attack at the airport!"

They'd been letting people know for a long time to start making their exit plans based on the knowledge that the Taliban had been emboldened and it was just a matter of time before they retook the country. Biden's choices were to either draw down by the already extended deadline, or to double down and send in more troops and extend the war.

Edited September 2, 2021 by ColoradoEagle

[UNTLifer]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

Trump negotiated directly with the Taliban and cut out the recognized Afghan government from conversations.

The first three things you listed happen in every war. It's not unique to this one.

The last two make no sense.

We don't leave American citizens behind, equipment left behind that has advanced technology is destroyed not left for the taking, Afghan citizens that helped Americans, like citizens of other countries that help us, are offered asylum not left to be murdered.

To clarify the last two points:

1.  Terrorists that we were holding as prisoners were released and are already showing up on video claiming they will create destruction to the U.S.

https://www.axios.com/taliban-bagram-prisoners-release-87ec6885-6930-46d6-9e96-473a252dcf7d.html

2. The steps Biden chose to take will make it more difficult to get people to work with us considering they can't trust us to protect them, the technology recovered by the enemy can be used against us, etc... thus weakening our country's defense.  Also, leaving the Taliban in power threatens the U.S.

 

[ColoradoEagle]

4 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

We don't leave American citizens behind, equipment left behind that has advanced technology is destroyed not left for the taking, Afghan citizens that helped Americans, like citizens of other countries that help us, are offered asylum not left to be murdered.

Leaving equipment behind always happens in war. Always. Some draw downs are better than others, but there is not a case of 'no equipment left behind'. The first result to pop up on Google when searching for equipment left behind in Vietnam:

ARMS LEFT BY U.S - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

Quote

To clarify the last two points:

1.  Terrorists that we were holding as prisoners were released and are already showing up on video claiming they will create destruction to the U.S.

https://www.axios.com/taliban-bagram-prisoners-release-87ec6885-6930-46d6-9e96-473a252dcf7d.html

I get your point, but outside of what they did, there are only two alternatives: 1) continue occupying Afghanistan indefinitely, or 2) set up a facility multiple times the size of Gitmo.

Quote

2. The steps Biden chose to take will make it more difficult to get people to work with us considering they can't trust us to protect them, the technology recovered by the enemy can be used against us, etc... thus weakening our country's defense.  Also, leaving the Taliban in power threatens the U.S.

But staying in the war forever isn't an option, so the Taliban would've always been in power. If anything, it's the negotiations with the Taliban that excluded the Afghan government last year that set the stage for distrust of working with the US. But honestly, it's beside the point. Even if Trump had done nothing, all indications are that the Afghan government wouldn't have been able to survive without US military protecting them.

[greenminer]

I'm not convinced that Trump would have done this right, either.

Doesn't strike me as consistent to cheer for his chaotic methods one day, then blindly have faith he would have done the orderly thing the next.

I feel like this entire thing is definitely a mess, and the MAGAs are just enjoying having something they can pile on Biden.

[UNTLifer]

27 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I'm not convinced that Trump would have done this right, either.

Doesn't strike me as consistent to cheer for his chaotic methods one day, then blindly have faith he would have done the orderly thing the next.

I feel like this entire thing is definitely a mess, and the MAGAs are just enjoying having something they can pile on Biden.

Nobody claimed Trump would do it better, although in his negotiations he did say there would be hell to pay should negative issues occur.   Outside of that comment, nobody brought Trump into this except you all trying to defend the ineptness of Biden.  If you think this was handled correctly then I can't help you with that but claiming "MAGAs" are enjoying having something to pile on Biden is ridiculous.  Biden has provided plenty of "pile on" material since taking office.  Hell, he's provided plenty in his years in office, period.

You all act like it is just the GOP that is being critical of how this withdrawal was handled.  Don't follow Biden's weak lead and blame Trump, that is Joe's M.O.   It is bipartisan.  He lied, he screwed it up and he is now playing CYA.  There are countless videos from Biden's past claiming he would never, ever leave U.S. citizens behind.  He lied and did it.  He won't answer questions because "he was told not to" and treated the families of those fallen soldiers like crap.  

[ColoradoEagle]

15 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Nobody claimed Trump would do it better, although in his negotiations he did say there would be hell to pay should negative issues occur.   Outside of that comment, nobody brought Trump into this except you all trying to defend the ineptness of Biden.  If you think this was handled correctly then I can't help you with that but claiming "MAGAs" are enjoying having something to pile on Biden is ridiculous.  Biden has provided plenty of "pile on" material since taking office.  Hell, he's provided plenty in his years in office, period.

Honestly, you're sensationalizing. I think you'll find very few people who will say this operation went off perfectly, but it's also not the catastrophic failure that some are trying to paint it to be. It just is what it is, and what it would always be regardless of when it happened. Trump did embolden the Taliban, and if you don't believe me, believe the RNC who tried to dust that under the rug.

It's not a zero sum game. It's not, "it's 100% Trump's fault!" or "it's 100% Biden's fault!" or even "it's 100% Bush's fault!" It's been 20 years. There's plenty of fault to go around. Pointing out that Biden is not solely responsible for Afghanistan shouldn't even be controversial, but here we are.

 

Quote

You all act like it is just the GOP that is being critical of how this withdrawal was handled.  Don't follow Biden's weak lead and blame Trump, that is Joe's M.O.   It is bipartisan.  He lied, he screwed it up and he is now playing CYA.  There are countless videos from Biden's past claiming he would never, ever leave U.S. citizens behind.  He lied and did it.  He won't answer questions because "he was told not to" and treated the families of those fallen soldiers like crap.  

Here's a news flash for you: The "librul MSM" is anything but. That whole war cry is just to shift the Overton window for certain 'news' outlets to the right. Over the past two weeks, I've seen almost every single news outlet directly or indirectly make the case that we should stay in Afghanistan forever, that this is the most important issue to the country today, and that it's worthy of 90% of the news airtime over the pandemic, a massive hurricane hitting the Gulf Coast, outlawing abortion even when it's the product of incestual rape, and a guy I saw yesterday being able to open carry a gun into freaking Aldi.

Again, I don't necessarily disagree with the points you're making. I am sure there are areas of the evacuation that could've been improved, and those details will more than likely bore themselves out in the next few months. But people acting like this is a world ending catastrophe while 230 Texans are dying per day to COVID just belies greenminer's point.

[greenminer]

Whoops! Didn't mean to sound like I was defending this Biden mess.

I find it interesting how each end of the political spectrums thinks their leader is a great leader, and the other is pretty much garbage.  That's probably a topic for a different thread, about how people are just wired differently.

Edited September 3, 2021 by greenminer

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

15 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Whoops! Didn't mean to sound like I was defending this Biden mess.

I find it interesting how each end of the political spectrums thinks their leader is a great leader, and the other is pretty much garbage.  That's probably a topic for a different thread, about how people are just wired differently.

I really don't think you will find that to be true. No one in here is calling Biden a great leader in this thread... Liberals went crazy with all the drone killings by Obama.