Afghanistan airport image

[Coach Andy Mac]

Edited August 17, 2021 by Coach Andy Mac

[LongJim]

Tragic, shameful, and unnecessary.

[GBarksdale]

I remember as a kid watching the news and seeing desperate people trying to get on the helicopters at our embassy in Saigon. Horrible.  Same thing here.😟

[UNTLifer]

A preventable tragedy. Sadly, those that have caused this are taking zero responsibility. 

[LongJim]

Credit to WSJ and WaPo editorial boards the last few days.  And a bit of credit to the NYT for their editorial Sunday.

Edited August 17, 2021 by LongJim

[adman]

10 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

A preventable tragedy. Sadly, those that have caused this are taking zero responsibility. 

Agreed. Where IS George Bush?

[greengal]

Biden just said he would not have changed a thing? 

[Coffee and TV]

All the conservatives in this thread conveniently forgetting how the Trump admin got 5000 taliban prisoners released. 

[LongJim]

51 minutes ago, Coffee and TV said:

All the conservatives in this thread conveniently forgetting how the Trump admin got 5000 taliban prisoners released. 

Cliffs of this thread:

OP:  "Terrible, tragic scene at Afghanistan Airport."

Replies:  "Could have been prevented.  Unnecessary.  Tragic.  Kudos to MSM."

Also replies:  "Conservatives--worse memory than Joe.  Past presidents sucked.  Trump is a son of a bitch."

🤘

[LongJim]

Question is--who in the Pentagon is going to be held accountable?  My prediction is--nobody will be.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

What does 'held accountable' look like? We don't have public floggings here in the states.  

[LongJim]

41 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

What does 'held accountable' look like? We don't have public floggings here in the states.  

You're being obtuse. 

This is a debacle.  You fire people.

[Salsa_Verde]

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

1 hour ago, LongJim said:

You're being obtuse. 

This is a debacle.  You fire people.

It was a genuine question. 

One administration negotiated with the 'great fighters' and 'great negotiators' and set a timeline to get out. Negotiated a release of 5000 Taliban soldiers. Left intel for Russians at abandoned based. Left the Kurds out to dry. Got fired upon by Turkey. Is constantly talking about how they need to get out of this pointless war at all costs - that is is costing us too much money and no one else is helping. The previous administration actually dramatically stopped processing the visas for translator/helper visas....  this administration restarted the visa process and stuck to the timeline that was negotiated. 

Yes - this is a disaster. One person didn't make this mistake though. I do agree that this is a shitshow, but I also agree that the corruption in Afghanistan has led to this. They aren't willing to fight? The military is trading power for stepping down? What kind of crap is that? So sure, this is ridiculous and innocent people are caught in the cross fire here... but we *never* went into Afghanistan to be a  nation builder. Besides, we have a peace negotiated with the Taliban, right? I seem to remember one from the last administration... so we are covered. We are good. 

But yes, absolutely this is Biden's to own. But let's not clutch our pearls at how this turned out - it was essentially how Trump was saying it would happen for the last 5 years. The immediate pull out option was very popular amongst his GOP. Now they are scrubbing all their websites trying to make that stance go away... but it is well known. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[UNTLifer]

On 8/17/2021 at 10:56 PM, adman said:

Agreed. Where IS George Bush?

Why?

[LongJim]

1 hour ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

But yes, absolutely this is Biden's to own. But let's not clutch our pearls at how this turned out - it was essentially how Trump was saying it would happen for the last 5 years. The immediate pull out option was very popular amongst his GOP. Now they are scrubbing all their websites trying to make that stance go away... but it is well known. 

Wow.

"Hey, Trump would have had the same result if he was president."

Hadn't heard that excuse before.  New one.

Biden wasn't hired to be Trump.

Heads need to roll.

 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

Here's the thing about democrats - we agree. We don't have parades, flags and Biden trains rolling coal.  This is not a good thing happening. This is not how we should be leaving a partner. But I am all ears on who's head you think should roll? (Such violent terms you choose)

I never said that Trump would have had the same result - you inserted that. I am laying out that there is over 20 years old collective douchebag ups. All parties. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[LongJim]

27 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

Here's the thing about democrats - we agree. We don't have parades, flags and Biden trains rolling coal.  This is not a good thing happening. This is not how we should be leaving a partner. But I am all ears on who's head you think should roll? (Such violent terms you choose)

I never said that Trump would have had the same result - you inserted that. I am laying out that there is over 20 years old collective douchebag ups. All parties. 

I think you should reread your post carefully.

Secondly, I'm not sure you realize just how big of a screw up this is.  You are certainly minimizing it, in my opinion.

Again, Biden wasn't hired to be Trump.  Or are you arguing otherwise?

Austin and Milley should offer their resignations immediately, if they are soldiers with honor.

[NT93]

Seems like common sense that our military would be the last one’s out of the country.

[ADLER]

17 hours ago, LongJim said:

You're being obtuse. 

This is a debacle.  You fire people.

At the very least, Austin, Milley, and Blinken should be forced to resign. This may not all be their fault, but they are the chosen front people to represent the new Rainbows, Lollipops, and Unicorns diplomacy implemented by the puppeteers that pull the strings for this administration.

[LongJim]

Sure sounds like CYA legalese.

********************************

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/a-question-for-team-biden-which-americans-currently-in-afghanistan-want-to-stay-there/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=hero&utm_content=related&utm_term=second

"I’ve noticed something curious amid the unfolding debacle that is the Biden administration’s withdrawal from Afghanistan. The obvious and correct priority for the U.S. right now, with the decision to withdraw having been made, is to get every American out of the country as soon as possible, given the threat faced from the unstable situation and the resurgent Taliban. So why does Team Biden keep hedging on this? There has been acknowledged confusion about how long U.S. forces will remain, and how many Americans are still in the country. But what to make of the weirdness of the line of multiple administration officials, including President Joe Biden himself, that they are working to get only those Americans who “want” to leave Afghanistan out of the country?

Department of State spokesman Ned Price, August 19:

“We’re going to bring home all the Americans who wish to come home, but I just can’t put a firm number on it for you right now.”

Joe Biden, August 20:

“But let me be clear. Any American who wants to come home, we will get you home.”

Pentagon press secretary John Kirby, August 20:

“The president I think was clear that we’ll do whatever we have to do to rescue as many Americans as want to leave Afghanistan, and the secretary’s not going to rule anything in or out in terms of what the possibilities might be there.”

An unnamed administration official, speaking to Fox News, today:

“As the president and his team have made clear, the circumstances in Afghanistan are heartbreaking and we are bringing the Americans who want to come home, home.”

Maybe there is something I am missing here. But I can only imagine that, if you are an American currently in Afghanistan, you want to leave, unless we have some truly audacious souls out there who are making their way over to Ahmad Massoud as we speak. So why on earth is it necessary to qualify this language in any way? Why not just say “all Americans?” Surely it’s not to provide some kind of wiggle room, to lay the foundation for an assumption that any American who proves unable to make it to Kabul within the full-withdrawal deadline Biden has now decided to stick to, lest he anger the Taliban, actually wanted to stay.

No, that couldn’t be it.

Right?"--Jack Butler

[UNTLifer]

On 8/19/2021 at 11:34 AM, Coffee and TV said:

All the conservatives in this thread conveniently forgetting how the Trump admin got 5000 taliban prisoners released. 

After negotiating a peace deal that included telling the Taliban, "If bad things happen, we will go back with a force like no-one's ever seen."  I doubt that happens now.

[Censored by Laurie]

1 hour ago, LongJim said:

Sure sounds like CYA legalese.

********************************

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/a-question-for-team-biden-which-americans-currently-in-afghanistan-want-to-stay-there/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=hero&utm_content=related&utm_term=second

"I’ve noticed something curious amid the unfolding debacle that is the Biden administration’s withdrawal from Afghanistan. The obvious and correct priority for the U.S. right now, with the decision to withdraw having been made, is to get every American out of the country as soon as possible, given the threat faced from the unstable situation and the resurgent Taliban. So why does Team Biden keep hedging on this? There has been acknowledged confusion about how long U.S. forces will remain, and how many Americans are still in the country. But what to make of the weirdness of the line of multiple administration officials, including President Joe Biden himself, that they are working to get only those Americans who “want” to leave Afghanistan out of the country?

Department of State spokesman Ned Price, August 19:

“We’re going to bring home all the Americans who wish to come home, but I just can’t put a firm number on it for you right now.”

Joe Biden, August 20:

“But let me be clear. Any American who wants to come home, we will get you home.”

Pentagon press secretary John Kirby, August 20:

“The president I think was clear that we’ll do whatever we have to do to rescue as many Americans as want to leave Afghanistan, and the secretary’s not going to rule anything in or out in terms of what the possibilities might be there.”

An unnamed administration official, speaking to Fox News, today:

“As the president and his team have made clear, the circumstances in Afghanistan are heartbreaking and we are bringing the Americans who want to come home, home.”

Maybe there is something I am missing here. But I can only imagine that, if you are an American currently in Afghanistan, you want to leave, unless we have some truly audacious souls out there who are making their way over to Ahmad Massoud as we speak. So why on earth is it necessary to qualify this language in any way? Why not just say “all Americans?” Surely it’s not to provide some kind of wiggle room, to lay the foundation for an assumption that any American who proves unable to make it to Kabul within the full-withdrawal deadline Biden has now decided to stick to, lest he anger the Taliban, actually wanted to stay.

No, that couldn’t be it.

Right?"--Jack Butler

since my reputation precedes me, I'll preface by saying I think his is a massive cluster-eff...and ya, ultimate responsibility falls at Biden's feet. you did what the last two presidents attempted/wanted to do...it farted and fell down, so it's your mess. 

that said, I think both sentimental and pragmatic intentions of the Biden administration were correct...we can not just continue "nation building" and fighting proxy wars into eternity...20 years is an staggering number. I think whether you're "anti-war" or "America First", there is common ground to be had that remaining in Afghanistan ad infinitum is unsustainable. 

I'm also not "someone needs to be fired" guy...but ya...if you're heading an intelligence agency and said it'd take 18 months for the Taliban to be ready to take Kabul, you probably shouldn't be in your post anymore. 

to LJ's article...I've no idea why that has been the talking-point verbage...but I will at least offer the suggestion that some American operatives truly do not want to leave. my assumption is that we have had officials and officers in post for 10+ years...hell, we might have people there since the Bush administration...those people have dedicated lives and livelihoods to this cause and to just shrug-emoji now probably is antithetical to all they've done. and I'm also going to assume that many of those lifers also have relationships with Taliban leaders...and they're possibly in a position where the do have legitimate influence on the nature of how things are unfolding 

[LongJim]

1 hour ago, Censored by Laurie said:

...we can not just continue "nation building" and fighting proxy wars into eternity...20 years is an staggering number. I think whether you're "anti-war" or "America First", there is common ground to be had that remaining in Afghanistan ad infinitum is unsustainable. 

to LJ's article...I've no idea why that has been the talking-point verbage...but I will at least offer the suggestion that some American operatives truly do not want to leave. 

Good post, and I agree with much of it.  I agree that a large proxy war is unsustainable.  However, I think--unfortunately--that the US really needed to serve as a hegemon in that area with some sort of remaining force similar to what we have in South Korea and other continents.  It goes against my instincts to type that, but if it's needed anywhere, I think it's in Afghanistan.  We never should have attempted to build a nation there though.  Pointless and impossible.

It does strike me as more than odd--and suspicious--that the verbiage from all of the lackeys is essentially the same.  

I think Biden is a doddering fool, but I truly wish him luck in sorting this out.  There are a lot of innocents in a lot of danger.

I'm getting into politics now, so I'll shut my own comments down in this thread beyond excerpts from articles I feel might be of interest.

Edited August 25, 2021 by LongJim

[FormerStudent1]

Someone needs to call Jimmy Carter.