Heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend...

BillySee58 · August 12, 2021

59 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Not sure how much that actually means. In 2010-13, our starting QBs were not signed in the 2010s, McNulty was pretty much the guy from 2014-2015, Mason Fine led us from 2016-2019, and two guys split reps and starts last year. So it's really only a 2-horse race.

Right but on the back end they would also get any stats accumulated in the 2020s.

But what it means is we signed 15 QBs in that time and Mcnulty finished towards the top of that group. Point is we sign a lot of QBs and very few even have the accomplishments on the field that McNulty did, even though when his name comes up it’s usually used as more of a low bar than a high bar.

59 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

If Aune wins the starting job this year, he will easily surpass McNulty's yardage.

Yes but Aune was not signed (as part of a recruiting class) by Littrell. He joined the team as a walkon. And again, to the point of the poor QB recruiting last decade, Littrell signed 4 high school QBs from 2017-2019, all still have eligibility left, and none of them are factors in our QB competition unless you consider Martin in there.

I’m hopeful Drummond ends up a good one, and maybe he doesn’t have to be as transfers become a more common option, but the QB scholarships Littrell has spent have not been very good to this point since Fine.

Also would like to see more cases like Bean where our backups are good enough to go compete for playing time at other schools. Not like we’ve had this logjam of QBs who were good enough to play but were just behind Thompson/McNulty/Fine and went on to have success at other schools.

TheColonyEagle · August 13, 2021

4 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Yes but Aune was not signed (as part of a recruiting class) by Littrell. He joined the team as a walkon. And again, to the point of the poor QB recruiting last decade, Littrell signed 4 high school QBs from 2017-2019, all still have eligibility left, and none of them are factors in our QB competition unless you consider Martin in there.

I’m hopeful Drummond ends up a good one, and maybe he doesn’t have to be as transfers become a more common option, but the QB scholarships Littrell has spent have not been very good to this point since Fine.

Also would like to see more cases like Bean where our backups are good enough to go compete for playing time at other schools. Not like we’ve had this logjam of QBs who were good enough to play but were just behind Thompson/McNulty/Fine and went on to have success at other schools.

I don't want to beat up on Littrell....again. But that is a HORRIBLE mark on his tenure here and another example of how horribly overrated he is as an "offensive guru" and QB "whisperer". YIKES.

Fine was a million to one shot

Edited August 13, 2021 by TheColonyEagle

TheColonyEagle · August 13, 2021

3 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I don't want to beat up on Littrell....again. But that is a HORRIBLE mark on his tenure here and another example of how horribly overrated he is as an "offensive guru" and QB "whisperer". YIKES.

Fine was a million to one shot

And I don't know why....but Aune makes me feel comfortable. If he gets the nod...maybe it's his age, I don't know. But I feel Aune can give Littrell his best year he's had sans Mason Fine. Maybe the O Line gives me that feeling. We have a great running game too. Just feels that way...like I said, I don't know why. Need the "old man" to go out there and lead the O this year.

greenminer · August 13, 2021

34 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

another example of how horribly overrated he is as an "offensive guru" and QB "whisperer". YIKES.

On one hand his offenses haven't been perfect, and the beginning of his tenure he didn't know how to recruit. The other hand is, he has set offensive records at every stop he's been (Indiana, UNC, and now Denton), and now has established us as the top recruiters in CUSA. So, what's the bar here?

He was a FB at OU. I've never ever heard of SL being called "QB whisperer". Maybe you read something I haven't.

I'm all for being critical here, but this IMO is piling it on.

UNTLifer · August 13, 2021

1 hour ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I don't want to beat up on Littrell....again. But that is a HORRIBLE mark on his tenure here and another example of how horribly overrated he is as an "offensive guru" and QB "whisperer". YIKES.

Fine was a million to one shot

Don't let you personal disdain for SL get in the way of an objective look at what he has done. His offenses have been productive at every stop. As noted above, I don't ever recall SL being call a QB whisperer. He hit on Fine, who took over early in his freshman year. Sorry, but possible recruits see this and don't want to come somewhere where they are going to sit for four years. Even with that in mind, our QB recruiting has never been better and improves every year. I think we forget that SL took over a mess of a program with non-existent recruiting. He has built relationships with the HS coaches in the state and our recruiting has improved every year. He has also built a real program that is light years better than what McCarney left for him.

Now, the results haven't been what we would have liked, but this program is on solid ground, is an extremely young team that is deeper that anything we have maybe ever had. It is time for results, but calling him "horribly overrated" is a little over the top. Just my humble opinion.

Cr1028 · August 13, 2021

I don’t get where all this quarterback hate directed at Littrell is coming from. His tenure included 4 years of what many see as the best qb in UNT history, and one, ONE, year without him. That one year was a year without spring ball and a year where on the results of a PCR test you could lose any offensive weapon hours before any game. The results? He used 2 quarterbacks to try and replace our all time leading passer. One of the 2 returns as one of the highest rated quarterbacks (statistically) in CUSA and will be competing for the starting job with an ‘ACC transfer who is a former 4star.. The other is competing for the starting job at a Big12 school. I think maybe some of you are overreacting.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Cr1028

TheColonyEagle · August 13, 2021

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

Don't let you personal disdain for SL get in the way of an objective look at what he has done. His offenses have been productive at every stop. As noted above, I don't ever recall SL being call a QB whisperer. He hit on Fine, who took over early in his freshman year. Sorry, but possible recruits see this and don't want to come somewhere where they are going to sit for four years. Even with that in mind, our QB recruiting has never been better and improves every year. I think we forget that SL took over a mess of a program with non-existent recruiting. He has built relationships with the HS coaches in the state and our recruiting has improved every year. He has also built a real program that is light years better than what McCarney left for him.

Now, the results haven't been what we would have liked, but this program is on solid ground, is an extremely young team that is deeper that anything we have maybe ever had. It is time for results, but calling him "horribly overrated" is a little over the top. Just my humble opinion.

I don’t have a personal disdain for Littrell. I hope he proves me wrong. I just don’t think he’s a good coach. The results speak for themselves.

TheColonyEagle · August 13, 2021

2 hours ago, greenminer said:

On one hand his offenses haven't been perfect, and the beginning of his tenure he didn't know how to recruit. The other hand is, he has set offensive records at every stop he's been (Indiana, UNC, and now Denton), and now has established us as the top recruiters in CUSA. So, what's the bar here?

He was a FB at OU. I've never ever heard of SL being called "QB whisperer". Maybe you read something I haven't.

I'm all for being critical here, but this IMO is piling it on.

His offensive records here are a con job. Piles on points and yards after he’s been blown out. I don’t buy it.

Win games. Games that mean something. That’s his bar. He’s never done it. In 5 years. $2 million a year.

Edited August 13, 2021 by TheColonyEagle

emmitt01 · August 13, 2021

8 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Could you imagine what Steve Ramsey's numbers would be if he played the games Fine did at NT?

Ramsey 29 games, 7076 passing yards, 69 tds

Fine 48 games, 12,237 passing yards, 91 tds

So Fine averaged more yards per game and Ramsey had a higher TD’s per game average. No real big statistical edge here.

Sometimes I feel like our fan base trips over itself to point out how much better players (and coaches) from the “good ol’ days” were

greenminer · August 13, 2021

Garbage points, meaningless yards, and lack of 'ships. This is all pretty typical of most of Leach's tree. Frustration with SL is amplified by the pile of money we are throwing his way.

Hopefully this is the season we erase that frustration.

UNTLifer · August 13, 2021

Yet everyone was clamoring for Leach at one time. This board is bipolar.

UNTLifer · August 13, 2021

3 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I don’t have a personal disdain for Littrell.

3 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

3 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

His offensive records here are a con job. Piles on points and yards after he’s been blown out. I don’t buy it.

Win games. Games that mean something. That’s his bar. He’s never done it. In 5 years. $2 million a year.

I just don’t think he’s a good coach. The results speak for themselves.

Maybe not personal disdain

UNTLifer · August 13, 2021

10 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Right but on the back end they would also get any stats accumulated in the 2020s.

I might be misinterpreting your comment, but do you mean last year? The year full of Covid issues, cancellations, etc... when we were led by Aune and Bean? They had pretty good stats.

Edited August 13, 2021 by UNTLifer

BillySee58 · August 13, 2021

3 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

I might be misinterpreting your comment, but do you mean last year? The year full of Covid issues, cancellations, etc... when we were led by Aune and Bean? They had pretty good stats.

I said that McNulty has the second most passing yards of any of the 15 QBs we signed in the 2010s. 93-98 pointed out that part of the reason this is true is that from 2010-2013 we were playing QBs who weren’t signed in the 2010s, so those 15 QBs didn’t really start accumulating passing stats until the 5th year of the decade.

My response was that in looking at the career stats of the 15 QBs signed in the 2010s, I’m looking at their entire career stats. Not just stats accumulated in the 2010s. So they get credit for stats accumulated in the 2020s and still McNulty is 2nd out of that group in career passing yards.

Also, Aune is not part of that group as he was a walkon, not one of the 15 QBs we signed in the 2010s.

MeanGreen_MBA · August 13, 2021

8 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

His offensive records here are a con job. Piles on points and yards after he’s been blown out. I don’t buy it.

Win games. Games that mean something. That’s his bar. He’s never done it. In 5 years. $2 million a year.

His 1st year was a great turn-around winning I think 6 games. He then had 2 back to back 9 win seasons. Year 4, lots of injuries hit us hard. Year 5 was a COVID disaster hitting UNT pretty hard. Look at the big picture over all. He did miss on a DC, but looks like he may have righted that ship.

TheColonyEagle · August 13, 2021

I don't give him the benefit of the doubt with injury and covid excuses.....all coaches dealt with and deal with both. He has gotten everything he wants here and it's time he does his part.

I hope he does turn it around this season....obviously. But he hasn't proven to this point that he can beat good teams...and we have a whole bunch of them on our schedule this year. Like I've said before....maybe YEAR 6 is the year he finally figures it out. I hope so.

Look, like I told Lifer....I don't have anything against Littrell personally (Ok maybe I was little out there with "QB Whisperer" So he's definitely not a QB Whisperer. I'll take that one back) but like a great line in the movie Moneyball: "if he's a good hitter, why doesn't he hit good?"

If Littrell is a good coach, why doesn't he coach good? Coaches are judged by wins and losses. If he doesn't surprise a whole bunch of people this season with a pretty good turnaround...he will more than likely be under .500 coaching in the worst conference in America. Objectively speaking....that ain't gonna cut it.

Edited August 13, 2021 by TheColonyEagle

Withers940 · August 13, 2021

Shit, from the thread title I thought we were about to sing Karaoke

PlummMeanGreen · August 13, 2021

20 minutes ago, Withers940 said:

Shit, from the thread title I thought we were about to sing Karaoke.

😁

These 23 from Tinsel Town seem to have sung more than karaoke. Wow. They are impressive.

❇️🦅❇️

El Paso Eagle · August 13, 2021

10 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

His offensive records here are a con job. Piles on points and yards after he’s been blown out. I don’t buy it.

Win games. Games that mean something. That’s his bar. He’s never done it. In 5 years. $2 million a year.

So then you also believe Mason's numbers were a "con job"?

TheColonyEagle · August 13, 2021

1 minute ago, El Paso Eagle said:

So then you also believe Mason's numbers were a "con job"?

In the grand scheme, That’s a small sample size in Littrell’s tenure here. He really had 2 big seasons. Littrell didn’t put anything around Mason and it showed in his last season when it should’ve been his best.

Who was Littrell’s biggest win against with Mason? He was still barely over .500 even with the greatest QB we’ve ever had.

TheColonyEagle · August 13, 2021

1. When you put Littrell's tenure here on its own merit, compare it to loads of other programs like ours, you get a "meh...."

2. When you put Littrell's tenure here in the context of our history, you get a "he's worked miracles and deserves big bucks"

I quit looking at it from #2. I will never say "yeah but compared to where we've been" again or "our offense has been horrible historically" again. It's not relevant anymore. We have to move past that and have better expectations for this program.

Challenging for the conference championship (in the worst conference in America) every single year should be a minimum expectation here. Not a miracle.

MeanGreenTexan · August 13, 2021

39 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

In the grand scheme, That’s a small sample size in Littrell’s tenure here. He really had 2 big seasons. Littrell didn’t put anything around Mason and it showed in his last season when it should’ve been his best.

Who was Littrell’s biggest win against with Mason? He was still barely over .500 even with the greatest QB we’ve ever had.

Mason Fine was our QB for 4/5 of Littrell's tenure. I'd say, in the grand scheme, it's a majority of the sample size. His Sr year was still pretty kickass with over 3000yds & 29TDs.

We cannot short-change Littrell's offense and the accomplishments of the players in it. It's impressive for sure.

Your last point is very damning though, and stands on its own. I'd have to say any time you can beat a SEC team, no matter what kind of season they ultimately have, that is pretty good.

TheColonyEagle · August 13, 2021

15 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Mason Fine was our QB for 4/5 of Littrell's tenure. I'd say, in the grand scheme, it's a majority of the sample size. His Sr year was still pretty kickass with over 3000yds & 29TDs.

We cannot short-change Littrell's offense and the accomplishments of the players in it. It's impressive for sure.

Your last point is very damning though, and stands on its own. I'd have to say any time you can beat a SEC team, no matter what kind of season they ultimately have, that is pretty good.

I was just talking about the big offensive years. And I don’t think 3,000 yards is real impressive in this type of offense in today’s college game. (Geez. Now it looks like I’m down on Mason which I AM NOT)

I wonder how many 3,000 yard passers we’ve had at UNT? I’m guessing not too many.

MeanGreenTexan · August 13, 2021

1 minute ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I was just talking about the big offensive years. And I don’t think 3,000 yards is real impressive in this type of offense in today’s college game. (Geez. Now it looks like I’m down on Mason which I AM NOT)

I wonder how many 3,000 yard passers we’ve had at UNT? I’m guessing not too many.

I think a lot of folks attributed the offensive production to Harrell after he left & NT only won 4 games.
But man, Reeder was a bad hire. Once Littrell took back playcalling around mid-season, you could tell. And Mason still ended up #31 in FBS for passing yards in what we would consider a "down year" for him. Definitely a testament to his ability, but I think it's also a testament to the offense as a whole too.

Ramsey (didn't play in enough games/season to accumulate 3000yds, but definitely could have) & Maher (I don't even think he hit 3k yds in a single season) are the only big passers that come to mind prior to Fine. Vizza & Riley never passed for over 3000yds in Dodge's offense.

BillySee58 · August 13, 2021

7 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I think a lot of folks attributed the offensive production to Harrell after he left & NT only won 4 games.
But man, Reeder was a bad hire. Once Littrell took back playcalling around mid-season, you could tell. And Mason still ended up #31 in FBS for passing yards in what we would consider a "down year" for him. Definitely a testament to his ability, but I think it's also a testament to the offense as a whole too.

Ramsey (didn't play in enough games/season to accumulate 3000yds, but definitely could have) & Maher (I don't even think he hit 3k yds in a single season) are the only big passers that come to mind prior to Fine. Vizza & Riley never passed for over 3000yds in Dodge's offense.

Maher is the only QB besides Mason to hit 3K in a season. He had 3,103 in 1994. What’s funny (sad?) is that if a QB throws for 3,000 yards in a season at North Texas, they’re basically in the top 10 career passing yards at North Texas from the season alone.

Dodge is 10th in school history with 3,187 for his career and Vidal Carlin and Jason Mills are not far ahead at 9th and 8th. Hopefully by the end of decade our top 10 list looks a little more modern. Ramsey and Maher have stood the test of time though.