🔴🟡 USC As An Independent? “All options are on the table with Trojans future.”

PlummMeanGreen · August 7, 2021

(Interesting article from Trojan Country).

OldDenton, this is not for you—it would only raise your BP to read it or to contemplate it happening in “Little D” (still such a superb place to live with all that 🎶🕺🏼💃🎓🚴🏽‍♂️bohemian atmosphere).

Said it before, but if North Texas ever wanted to remove itself (a la how TCU did it) from the quagmire of “Texas-based 30,000 seat stadium schools & CUSA”—there would still be only one way to do it. As in (fanfare) 🎺🎺🎺——Independent status!
Yes, it would be a roll of the dice & and a very gutsy move, but can you imagine the Apogee home schedule we’d have annually? Apogee Stadium would have to have 42,000 seats minimum; only 11K more than we have now. An 8K double deck on Student Side & A 2K to 3K seat End Zone Facility all horse shoe’d in. Yes in deed, Apogee would have finally gotten past her puberty stage alright!🤭😳🤢

Happy reading!
https://www.deseret.com/sports/2021/7/3/22562379/would-usc-football-usc-trojans-consider-leaving-pac-12-going-independent

❇️🦅❇️

Edited August 8, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

greenjoe · August 7, 2021

I think the decision to go independent back in the 70s was a mistake. That move, by then Athletic Director Hayden Fry took us out of the Missouri Valley Conference which later would become part of the original CUSA and away from many teams we would now like to align with.

Today, the motion of going Indy is completely different. While looking at football only, the independent team can play anyone the first 4 weeks of the season. The longer the season goes on, the more difficult scheduling becomes. There will be no more 8 game automatic games. Now, we have to find someone that had an opening during conference play season and I think it may be difficult. Also, there will be no more conference championship games so any post season game will have to be a bowl game. With no conference tie-ins that might be tough too. No pre or post season all conference teams. No more TV contracts, except those we negotiate ourselves.

Very few schools are able to do it and those that can are well known brands. I think it’s a reasonable idea at first glance but I wonder if the scheduling grind will wear down an athletic staff ? Regardless, GO MEAN GREEN.

NorthTexasWeLove · August 7, 2021

9 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

I think the decision to go independent back in the 70s was a mistake. That move, by then Athletic Director Hayden Fry took us out of the Missouri Valley Conference which later would become part of the original CUSA and away from many teams we would now like to align with.

Today, the motion of going Indy is completely different. While looking at football only, the independent team can play anyone the first 4 weeks of the season. The longer the season goes on, the more difficult scheduling becomes. There will be no more 8 game automatic games. Now, we have to find someone that had an opening during conference play season and I think it may be difficult. Also, there will be no more conference championship games so any post season game will have to be a bowl game. With no conference tie-ins that might be tough too. No pre or post season all conference teams. No more TV contracts, except those we negotiate ourselves.

Very few schools are able to do it and those that can are well known brands. I think it’s a reasonable idea at first glance but I wonder if the scheduling grind will wear down an athletic staff ? Regardless, GO MEAN GREEN.

We're in a far and away more favorable geographic location than NMSU. They've done it, no reason we couldn't do it. There will be games to be played, even as an independent. If that's the hurdle to get over, that's a small hurdle. If we're afraid to leave a conference affiliation because of bowl slots then that's a better argument, albeit one that doesn't make me quiver. Florida State rose from nothing as an independent because they had a scheduling plan in place and emphasized team speed on defense before other people did.

Worst case: UNT won't receive that luxurious 400k media rights CUSA check and might have trouble making a full schedule early. Then of course we might not get to go play Montana Tech A&M State in the Toyota Toilet Bowl in Bangar, Maine if we go 6-6.

Best Case: We disassociate ourselves from G5 and CUSA. We could still play any regional CUSA school we want. We get to schedule whoever we want as we move forward as an independent to be. It makes more room for Cal/Mizzou/service academies type series. Start winning with consistency while controlling your schedule, people will take notice. You can pitch your schedule (that you control) to recruits.

I personally don't see the advantage in keeping ourselves attached to CUSA.

Rudy · August 7, 2021

I don't see the benefits of CUSA, as long as the conference is being #Judy'd, but Indy status is worse. We don't have the "status" to pull it off. How did that work for NMSU. If time was on our side, we could try building a winning program and being appealing to other conferences. But time is not on our side. This merging crap is taking place a few years down the road, AT MOST. It's expected that it will happen sooner than planned. Indy status is almost as bad as as dropping down.

PlummMeanGreen · August 7, 2021

5 hours ago, greenjoe said:

I think the decision to go independent back in the 70s was a mistake. That move, by then Athletic Director Hayden Fry took us out of the Missouri Valley Conference which later would become part of the original CUSA and away from many teams we would now like to align with.

Well, I did say it would be a roll of the dice & a gutsy move to try it? Wonder how USC would do it? Wonder how UNT would do it on a smaller scale?

😊Don’t worry, Joe, I’m sure Denton’s future Great Grandchildren will all remember from old stories told when North Texas got to actually play in a conference that included Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, Tulsa, Houston & on the near horizon it could easily be UT-San Antonio, UAB & God only knows who else could pass us by if we live in the past & keep the old “Denton Teachers College small” mode of thinking.
It’s just the way it is. No one is the lesser for it. I’ve had almost 50 years to see it be that way with a rare sustenance of success or a serious string of winning seasons.
••••• If we had had a 10 football season winning streak going on now its easy to see how our favorite school’s name would be mentioned in some recent re-alignment discussions.

Yet for that many schools (as listed above) to pass us by has to eventually get people who are pointing at somebody else to take a look where the thumb is pointing back to.
❌ Sure we all can share some of the guilt on some of this, but today it is a brand new era & our constituency numbers are just looking doggone good. ✳️ After all, it takes a Mean Green Village. 🙄

🦅 GMG!

Edited August 8, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

GrandGreen · August 7, 2021

2 hours ago, greenjoe said:

I think the decision to go independent back in the 70s was a mistake. That move, by then Athletic Director Hayden Fry took us out of the Missouri Valley Conference which later would become part of the original CUSA and away from many teams we would now like to align with.

Today, the motion of going Indy is completely different. While looking at football only, the independent team can play anyone the first 4 weeks of the season. The longer the season goes on, the more difficult scheduling becomes. There will be no more 8 game automatic games. Now, we have to find someone that had an opening during conference play season and I think it may be difficult. Also, there will be no more conference championship games so any post season game will have to be a bowl game. With no conference tie-ins that might be tough too. No pre or post season all conference teams. No more TV contracts, except those we negotiate ourselves.

Very few schools are able to do it and those that can are well known brands. I think it’s a reasonable idea at first glance but I wonder if the scheduling grind will wear down an athletic staff ? Regardless, GO MEAN GREEN.

Wrong in my view. The teams you are referring to (Cincinnati, Memphis, Louisville, etc) had already left the MVC.

Getting out MVC was the right move, you realize that was far from a regional conference, at one time every school was from a different state.

Who knows, if NT were remotely interested in increasing athletic funding; Fry may have been able to move NT to a descent conference. I bet Fry was appalled when he got to NT and saw how little support athletics had.

I doubt Fry ever thought that remaining an independence for long, would work. It is very tough for football and basketball, but can absolutely destroy the other sports.

Mike Jackson · August 8, 2021

7 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Worst case: UNT won't receive that luxurious 400k media rights CUSA check and might have trouble making a full schedule early.

Best Case: We disassociate ourselves from G5 and CUSA. We could still play any regional CUSA school we want.

Start winning with consistency while controlling your schedule, people will take notice. You can pitch your schedule (that you control) to recruits.

I personally don't see the advantage in keeping ourselves attached to CUSA.

I am not sold on the idea of independent but this should be discussing in AD departments of larger schools in Sun Belt, CUSA, and ACC. The MWC and MAC have coherent geographic footprint and relatively long established rivalries. Geography is the basis of rivalries.

If we we went independent in football 2013 and contracted out a schedules were we playing the teams list below every two years it would have been much better for us I think. There are over 20 teams listed. Very achievable to map out 5 regular seasons worth of games. But that would require the AD and staff to work their asses off. But as it stands now they need to work every bit as hard getting the majority of CUSA, AAC, and Sun Belt schools to wake up and go regional. FAU, FIU, Charlotte, ODU, and etc are never going to care about a random game vs UNT or vice versa.

Tulsa

SMU

Texas State

UTEP

TCU

Rice

Houston

La Tech

Arkansas State

Louisiana (Lafayette)

Oklahoma State

Texas Tech

Colorado State

Air Force

Army

Navy

Colorado

New Mexico

New Mexico State

Kansas

Kansas State

Missouri

Arkansas

UTSA

Memphis

Reorganizing these G5 conferences regionally makes more sense than going independent. But if they refuse, I think considering going independent and working on an independent schedule behind the scenes to pressure some CUSA changes is the way to go.

PlummMeanGreen · August 8, 2021

23 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

We're in a far and away more favorable geographic location than NMSU. They've done it, no reason we couldn't do it. There will be games to be played, even as an independent. If that's the hurdle to get over, that's a small hurdle. If we're afraid to leave a conference affiliation because of bowl slots then that's a better argument, albeit one that doesn't make me quiver. Florida State rose from nothing as an independent because they had a scheduling plan in place and emphasized team speed on defense before other people did.

Worst case: UNT won't receive that luxurious 400k media rights CUSA check and might have trouble making a full schedule early. Then of course we might not get to go play Montana Tech A&M State in the Toyota Toilet Bowl in Bangar, Maine if we go 6-6.

Best Case: We disassociate ourselves from G5 and CUSA. We could still play any regional CUSA school we want. We get to schedule whoever we want as we move forward as an independent to be. It makes more room for Cal/Mizzou/service academies type series. Start winning with consistency while controlling your schedule, people will take notice. You can pitch your schedule (that you control) to recruits.

I personally don't see the advantage in keeping ourselves attached to CUSA.

I am realistic enough to know UNT will most likely not soon attempt to go Independent, but then I look at 2 particular UNT AD’s--1 who actually did it & another I believe could successfully pull it off.

UNT AD#1: This AD had the cojones In the early 1970’s to buck the norm at the Top of the Golden Triangle & would pull the trigger to make it happen.   After declaring North Texas as a Major Independent, AD Fry would quickly schedule Oklahoma State, Miss. St., Fla. State, Miami (who we’d play after he left for Iowa), U of Texas-Austin (for 4 games initially) & of course, he added University of Tennessee (Knoxville) in 1975 for a most memorable matchup for the Mean Green. It was memorable for UT Vols Coach Bill Battle, too. That loss to the Mean Green would cost him his job! Shortly thereafter Battle would get a small loan from his Bama college coach Bear Bryant & then he’d start his College Licensing company—the rest is history. (Talk about somebody turning their 🍋 lemons into lemonade).😊

UNT AD #2: In Wren We Trust, we have an AD who (like) Fry would be un-afraid to take a road less traveled.  I see in his accomplishments thus far & his persona one who would totally be fearless in putting such a major endeavor successfully together. Could you see Wren not making it happen? Would you ever hear him saying: “I could never put an Indy schedule together?” I don’t think so. To me it would be a piece of cake for him & MG fans all over Texas & beyond would be the beneficiaries.

••• In 1973 the Texas Almanac described Denton County as “a rural county of 99,000 population.” Now it’s closing in on 1,000,000.  We all deserve more than trying to get excited about scheduling former FCS & D1-AA schools for future games. •••See AD #1 paragraph again.

✳️🦅✳️

Edited August 8, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

wardly · August 8, 2021

Well, the apocalypse is on us if we are using NMSU as a model for anything. The reason they are independent is because no 1A conference wants them. Their administration is boxed in. They owe the State of New Mexico about $5 million dollars as pay back for state funds that ended up in athletics instead of academics. That is one reason they play 4 to 6 body bag games a year[sound familiar?], as well as to fund their athletic program. They looked at dropping down to 1AA but determined they would loose more money at that level than as an independent. Also, they would have a harder time scheduling money games. Once the debt to the state is retired they will probably reevaluate their position. All their sports except football are in the WAC, which just created a 1AA conference with 4 members from the Southland plus So. Utah and Dixie State. Finally, New Mexico State University's football program has about one winning season since the turn of the century. However, they do have a baseball program.

ttunt1970 · August 9, 2021

I’m with you Wardly going the Independent route like NMSU is crazy. I worked with Hayden, but going independent killed our other sports including basketball. If Hayden had stayed we might have pulled it off, I think he miscalculated the biases in the old SWC. He got a great gig and we didn’t recover.

PlummMeanGreen · August 9, 2021

11 hours ago, ttunt1970 said:

I’m with you Wardly going the Independent route like NMSU is crazy. I worked with Hayden, but going independent killed our other sports including basketball. If Hayden had stayed we might have pulled it off, I think he miscalculated the biases in the old SWC. He got a great gig and we didn’t recover.

So you worked for Hayden? Typical is how some on GMG with 1 giant swath of a brush (or keystroke) would say “Being Independent killed UNT basketball!” Uh.... huh?🙃
You do remember Coach Bill Blakely & then assistants Billy Tubbs & Jimmy Gales Major Independent Mean Green basketball program, right? A program that would have better W/L records than I think was ever recorded as a member of the Mo’ Valley Conference? In fact, did we ever win a Mo’ Valley BB championship?

Yet you say Independent status killed UNT basketball?😳 Lets see now—-Roll call time: We had Bill Blakely, Fred Mitchell, Melvin Davis, Kenny Williams, Weasel Johnson, etc, etc. etc. who were all major players in our first few years as an Independent? It was a good Indy’ start until OldDenton took over again. We just couldn’t ever get it right up there. Then UNT would soon become a comedy of constant hiring errors.

✅ A DMN boxscore I can visualize even now had “10,700” as the official attendance of an Independent UNT basketball game vs SMU. By the way, a SRO Super Pit hasn’t happened since. (The main shame back then was how the OldNCAA kept automatic bids to their post season tournament to a very finite group of schools).

I wasn’t around UNT in the 60’s, but it sounds to me like it may have been more about our years as mostly a “toward the bottom” feeder in the Missouri Valley Conference that kept college basketball rather small time in Denton. Independent status actually seemed to give UNT’s men’s varsity basketball program a new light & a new hope, but it would all be for naught since a (post Fry) UNT AD took the bull by the horns & marched us all the way down to a lower classification the NCAA called 1-AA. Now “THAT” was a killer (speaking of things that kill).
So it’s 3 steps forward—5 steps backwards time once again as OldDenton is back in the saddle so...🎶Unhappy Times Are Here Again.

The backwards & regressive mode of thinking & acting did so much harm to UNT & caused thousands of alums to not want to really get involved. We went from playing Tennessee to, uh, freakin’ Middle Tennessee? That was predictable & more similar would be on the way.

One constant upside no matter if the NewDenton progressives or OldDenton regressives were in charge of our favorite school’s athletic program is how local business all did very well with the thousands of UNT students who had Mamas & Daddy’s charge cards in hand.

••• Truth reveals all & at times it pisses some off. Yes, we all have our respective versions of Truth, but which version tends to create winning athletic programs is maybe the one we should focus on at UNT &...Denton?

❇️🦅❇️ Still...Mean Green & Proud of it!

Edited August 9, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

Mike Jackson · August 9, 2021

9 hours ago, ttunt1970 said:

I’m with you Wardly going the Independent route like NMSU is crazy. I worked with Hayden, but going independent killed our other sports including basketball. If Hayden had stayed we might have pulled it off, I think he miscalculated the biases in the old SWC. He got a great gig and we didn’t recover.

Going down with a CUSA resistant to make a pragmatic change based on geography isn't better IMO. And I don't think we can run to another conference to save FBS level football. 🤷🏽‍♂️ Going independent should be BACKUP plan depending on what the G5 conferences do.

Wag Tag · August 9, 2021

The C-USA model no longer works, unless they make it a more regional conf with 2 divisions and a Championship game. For G5's being more regional will be a must. The money is in the Playoffs, G5's should have a national playoff with a champion. Let's be a very successful mid major program, to expect anything bigger with this rigged system is a waste. GMG

untjim1995 · August 9, 2021

I’ll say this, a school with tons of financial resources (I.e. $$$$ from BMDs), as well as a good local support network, independent status in football will be smart for those not in the SEC, B1G, or the ACC. If you are Baylor, TCU, Stanford, USC, etc…it’s a way to keep more for yourself and get to tell everyone you are still a power school. It’s basically what BYU decided to do.

I don’t think schools without both of those can even think about independence for football.

wardly · August 9, 2021

8 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

So you worked for Hayden? Typical is how some on GMG with 1 giant swath of a brush (or keystroke) would say “Being Independent killed UNT basketball!” Uh.... huh?🙃
You do remember Coach Bill Blakely & then assistants Billy Tubbs & Jimmy Gales Major Independent Mean Green basketball program, right? A program that would have better W/L records than I think was ever recorded as a member of the Mo’ Valley Conference? In fact, did we ever win a Mo’ Valley BB championship?

Yet you say Independent status killed UNT basketball?😳   Lets see now—-Roll call time: We had Bill Blakely, Fred Mitchell, Melvin Davis, Kenny Williams, Weasel Johnson, etc, etc. etc. who were all major players in our first few years as an Independent? It was a good Indy’ start until OldDenton took over again. We just couldn’t ever get it right up there. Then UNT would soon become a comedy of constant hiring errors.

✅ A DMN boxscore I can visualize even now had “10,700” as the official attendance of an Independent UNT basketball game vs SMU. By the way, a SRO Super Pit hasn’t happened since. (The main shame back then was how the OldNCAA kept automatic bids to their post season tournament to a very finite group of schools).

I wasn’t around UNT in the 60’s, but it sounds to me like it may have been more about our years as mostly a “toward the bottom” feeder in the Missouri Valley Conference that kept college basketball rather small time in Denton. Independent status actually  seemed to give UNT’s men’s varsity basketball program a new light & a new hope, but it would all be for naught since a (post Fry) UNT AD took the bull by the horns & marched us all the way down to a lower classification the NCAA called 1-AA. Now “THAT” was a killer (speaking of things that kill).
So it’s 3 steps forward—5 steps backwards time once again as OldDenton is back in the saddle so...🎶Unhappy Times Are Here Again.

The backwards & regressive  mode of thinking & acting did so much harm to UNT & caused thousands of alums to not want to really get involved. We went from playing Tennessee to, uh, freakin’ Middle Tennessee? That was predictable & more similar would be on the way.

One constant upside no matter if the NewDenton progressives or OldDenton regressives were in charge of our favorite school’s athletic program is how local business all did very well with the thousands of UNT students who had Mamas & Daddy’s charge cards in hand.

••• Truth reveals all & at times it pisses some off. Yes, we all have our respective versions of Truth, but which version tends to create winning athletic programs is maybe the one we should focus on at UNT &...Denton?

❇️🦅❇️ Still...Mean Green & Proud of it!

I have posted this before, but I was on a UNT Foundation Board committee in the early 90's that dealt with designated and undesignated contributions to the university. What I learned was that the university President during Fry's tenure had moved funds from the Leonard Breedlove [sic?] Foundation to the athletic department , an act for which he barely escaped criminal prosecution. At that time we had no major donors, no student fee for athletics, no money, and few fans. At some point the choice was either to drop to 1AA or drop the program. Again, I cannot stress enough to the younger members of this board how underfunded our athletic program historically has been. Rick V. gets bashed often, but he pulled a rabbit out of a hat in getting our new stadium built. I still don't see how he did it.

TheColonyEagle · August 9, 2021

On 8/7/2021 at 4:26 PM, NorthTexasWeLove said:

We're in a far and away more favorable geographic location than NMSU. They've done it, no reason we couldn't do it. There will be games to be played, even as an independent. If that's the hurdle to get over, that's a small hurdle. If we're afraid to leave a conference affiliation because of bowl slots then that's a better argument, albeit one that doesn't make me quiver. Florida State rose from nothing as an independent because they had a scheduling plan in place and emphasized team speed on defense before other people did.

Worst case: UNT won't receive that luxurious 400k media rights CUSA check and might have trouble making a full schedule early. Then of course we might not get to go play Montana Tech A&M State in the Toyota Toilet Bowl in Bangar, Maine if we go 6-6.

Best Case: We disassociate ourselves from G5 and CUSA. We could still play any regional CUSA school we want. We get to schedule whoever we want as we move forward as an independent to be. It makes more room for Cal/Mizzou/service academies type series. Start winning with consistency while controlling your schedule, people will take notice. You can pitch your schedule (that you control) to recruits.

I personally don't see the advantage in keeping ourselves attached to CUSA.

I actually agree with all of that...

However the challenge, we're in the worst conference in the country which means we by default have one of the easiest schedules in the country, and yet we can only win 4 games a year with this schedule. I would assume that going independent, our schedule would get better and more than likely tougher. If we can only win 4 games a year in this conference....we would need a pretty good upgrade on the field to have success. Not saying it can't be done, but it would probably get worse before it got better. It would take a real commitment and long term thinking to pull it off.

untjim1995 · August 9, 2021

2 hours ago, wardly said:

I have posted this before, but I was on a UNT Foundation Board committee in the early 90's that dealt with designated and undesignated contributions to the university. What I learned was that the university President during Fry's tenure had moved funds from the Leonard Breedlove [sic?] Foundation to the athletic department , an act for which he barely escaped criminal prosecution. At that time we had no major donors, no student fee for athletics, no money, and few fans. At some point the choice was either to drop to 1AA or drop the program. Again, I cannot stress enough to the younger members of this board how underfunded our athletic program historically has been. Rick V. gets bashed often, but he pulled a rabbit out of a hat in getting our new stadium built. I still don't see how he did it.

RV did two things here as the AD that were good: tailgating and getting the UNT 17 to give money beyond what the administration budgeted for him

He was the AD when the stadium got built. But he was in no way involved with that thing getting the support to be built. That was all on UNTFlyer. He was on the SGA, had watched the many times a stadium vote would get offered up and then get swatted down by the student body as RV and company loudly tried to convince everyone we needed a new stadium. He decided that it was time to try this on his own and he showed a bunch of folks on the SGA just how decrepit Fouts was and that it wouldn’t be possible to continue being a FBS program at that stadium. They saw what he was saying at a game at Fouts being run by several generators, so they agreed to put the initiative on the ballot. Then, in complete stealth mode, RV was kept away from this whole campaign and it wasn’t publicized too much. Amazingly, it passed, and the student body that didn’t know about it or didn’t vote then tried all kinds of ways to kill it, but they couldn’t. Hell, they got Denia residents, Old Denton nestors, anti-athletic faculty, and even Austin representatives to try and kill it and it couldn’t get stopped. And that’s how we have Apogee.

So when you are at a home game and are tailgating, you can thank RV for being the visionary AD to open up tailgating here—who in the hell thought tailgating in Texas for football was a bad idea? Only here, of course…

GrandGreen · August 9, 2021

13 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

So you worked for Hayden? Typical is how some on GMG with 1 giant swath of a brush (or keystroke) would say “Being Independent killed UNT basketball!” Uh.... huh?🙃
You do remember Coach Bill Blakely & then assistants Billy Tubbs & Jimmy Gales Major Independent Mean Green basketball program, right? A program that would have better W/L records than I think was ever recorded as a member of the Mo’ Valley Conference? In fact, did we ever win a Mo’ Valley BB championship?

Yet you say Independent status killed UNT basketball?😳   Lets see now—-Roll call time: We had Bill Blakely, Fred Mitchell, Melvin Davis, Kenny Williams, Weasel Johnson, etc, etc. etc. who were all major players in our first few years as an Independent? It was a good Indy’ start until OldDenton took over again. We just couldn’t ever get it right up there. Then UNT would soon become a comedy of constant hiring errors.

✅ A DMN boxscore I can visualize even now had “10,700” as the official attendance of an Independent UNT basketball game vs SMU. By the way, a SRO Super Pit hasn’t happened since. (The main shame back then was how the OldNCAA kept automatic bids to their post season tournament to a very finite group of schools).

I wasn’t around UNT in the 60’s, but it sounds to me like it may have been more about our years as mostly a “toward the bottom” feeder in the Missouri Valley Conference that kept college basketball rather small time in Denton. Independent status actually  seemed to give UNT’s men’s varsity basketball program a new light & a new hope, but it would all be for naught since a (post Fry) UNT AD took the bull by the horns & marched us all the way down to a lower classification the NCAA called 1-AA. Now “THAT” was a killer (speaking of things that kill).
So it’s 3 steps forward—5 steps backwards time once again as OldDenton is back in the saddle so...🎶Unhappy Times Are Here Again.

The backwards & regressive  mode of thinking & acting did so much harm to UNT & caused thousands of alums to not want to really get involved. We went from playing Tennessee to, uh, freakin’ Middle Tennessee? That was predictable & more similar would be on the way.

One constant upside no matter if the NewDenton progressives or OldDenton regressives were in charge of our favorite school’s athletic program is how local business all did very well with the thousands of UNT students who had Mamas & Daddy’s charge cards in hand.

••• Truth reveals all & at times it pisses some off. Yes, we all have our respective versions of Truth, but which version tends to create winning athletic programs is maybe the one we should focus on at UNT &...Denton?

❇️🦅❇️ Still...Mean Green & Proud of it!

Four of the five players that Blakeley won early with were recruited by Robbins while NT was a member of MVC. No, NT never came close to winning the MVC then one of the best conferences in the nation. I certainly would not call them bottom feeders; during that period UH and NT were the best basketball programs in the state. The late sixties teams including Hamilton, Whitaker, Winfield, Hazelton, Adams, Cutter, Stephens and others were arguably the best ever at NT.

The sellout at the PIt, was in fact caused by the SMU coach Sonny Allen. Who came out in the papers stating that SMU would not schedule NT anymore. The title of the article I believe was something like watch "Sonny Run". It definitely was a sellout with people actually setting in the aisles to watch the game.

Edited August 9, 2021 by GrandGreen

wardly · August 9, 2021

2 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

RV did two things here as the AD that were good: tailgating and getting the UNT 17 to give money beyond what the administration budgeted for him

He was the AD when the stadium got built. But he was in no way involved with that thing getting the support to be built. That was all on UNTFlyer. He was on the SGA, had watched the many times a stadium vote would get offered up and then get swatted down by the student body as RV and company loudly tried to convince everyone we needed a new stadium. He decided that it was time to try this on his own and he showed a bunch of folks on the SGA just how decrepit Fouts was and that it wouldn’t be possible to continue being a FBS program at that stadium. They saw what he was saying at a game at Fouts being run by several generators, so they agreed to put the initiative on the ballot. Then, in complete stealth mode, RV was kept away from this whole campaign and it wasn’t publicized too much. Amazingly, it passed, and the student body that didn’t know about it or didn’t vote then tried all kinds of ways to kill it, but they couldn’t. Hell, they got Denia residents, Old Denton nestors, anti-athletic faculty, and even Austin representatives to try and kill it and it couldn’t get stopped. And that’s how we have Apogee.

So when you are at a home game and are tailgating, you can thank RV for being the visionary AD to open up tailgating here—who in the hell thought tailgating in Texas for football was a bad idea? Only here, of course…

President JC Matthews did not allow tailgating nor alumni fundraising for athletics. He set the model for UNT's Presidents that stayed in place for over 40 years.

untjim1995 · August 9, 2021

33 minutes ago, wardly said:

President JC Matthews did not allow tailgating nor alumni fundraising for athletics. He set the model for UNT's Presidents that stayed in place for over 40 years.

As I said…only at North Texas

meanrob · August 9, 2021

3 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

RV did two things here as the AD that were good: tailgating and getting the UNT 17 to give money beyond what the administration budgeted for him

He was the AD when the stadium got built. But he was in no way involved with that thing getting the support to be built. That was all on UNTFlyer. He was on the SGA, had watched the many times a stadium vote would get offered up and then get swatted down by the student body as RV and company loudly tried to convince everyone we needed a new stadium. He decided that it was time to try this on his own and he showed a bunch of folks on the SGA just how decrepit Fouts was and that it wouldn’t be possible to continue being a FBS program at that stadium. They saw what he was saying at a game at Fouts being run by several generators, so they agreed to put the initiative on the ballot. Then, in complete stealth mode, RV was kept away from this whole campaign and it wasn’t publicized too much. Amazingly, it passed, and the student body that didn’t know about it or didn’t vote then tried all kinds of ways to kill it, but they couldn’t. Hell, they got Denia residents, Old Denton nestors, anti-athletic faculty, and even Austin representatives to try and kill it and it couldn’t get stopped. And that’s how we have Apogee.

So when you are at a home game and are tailgating, you can thank RV for being the visionary AD to open up tailgating here—who in the hell thought tailgating in Texas for football was a bad idea? Only here, of course…

Tailgating was allowed before RV. I know, because I/we did it. When we were going to bring in a cooker/smoker for a pregame tailgate, the athletic department said we needed to get a permit from the police department, I said forget that and we did it anyway. People tailgated/drank before RV, the old MGC started before RV got here. He just encouraged it.

Baylor told us we couldn’t (actually in true baptist fashion they said we “shouldn’t”) have alcohol at our MGC pregame tailgate there. We brought a keg anyway.

Haven’t thought about the old Denia folks opposing the stadium in a while. They were funny.

Edited August 9, 2021 by meanrob

meangreen11 · August 9, 2021

28 minutes ago, meanrob said:

Baylor told us we couldn’t (actually in true baptist fashion they said we “shouldn’t”) have alcohol at our MGC pregame tailgate there. We brought a keg anyway.

winning charlie sheen GIF

PlummMeanGreen · August 10, 2021

5 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Four of the five players that Blakeley won early with were recruited by Robbins while NT was a member of MVC. No, NT never came close to winning the MVC then one of the best conferences in the nation. I certainly would not call them bottom feeders; during that period UH and NT were the best basketball programs in the state. The late sixties teams including Hamilton, Whitaker, Winfield, Hazelton, Adams, Cutter, Stephens and others were arguably the best ever at NT.

The sellout at the PIt, was in fact caused by the SMU coach Sonny Allen. Who came out in the papers stating that SMU would not schedule NT anymore. The title of the article I believe was something like watch "Sonny Run". It definitely was a sellout with people actually setting in the aisles to watch the game.

I believe SMU AD Dick Davis was the one who pulled the trigger in not wanting to play us, but you’re right as Sonny was merely his chief messenger.
Dick Davis was on Al Whisk Sports Central Show on KRLD one evening & UNT fans were calling in giving the poor guy holy hell! I thought he was going to have a nervous breakdown.🤪😊

My first UNT basketball game was the night the Super Pit made its grandiose debut. Gene Robbins was the Coach then. I have no idea why he was released from his contract. That first game I was impressed with a MG forward named Ken Bailey?

😊 We seem to have this weird modus operandi up there of past UNT coaches who recruit some good talent, but don’t get to stick around long enough to coach it. It’s happened like that for MG football with 2 or 3 coaches of our past.
I guess that is a tradition some of us would like SL to bust wide open because if he were not to be around next year his successor would for certain inherit some damn good talent; that is, if we can believe recruiting services like 247.

🦅

Edited August 10, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

Salsa_Verde · August 10, 2021

On 8/7/2021 at 12:00 PM, PlummMeanGreen said:

(Interesting article from Trojan Country).

OldDenton, this is not for you—it would only raise your BP to read it or to contemplate it happening in “Little D” (still such a superb place to live with all that 🎶🕺🏼💃🎓🚴🏽‍♂️bohemian atmosphere).

Said it before, but if North Texas ever wanted to remove itself (a la how TCU did it) from the quagmire of “Texas-based 30,000 seat stadium schools & CUSA”—there would still be only one way to do it. As in (fanfare) 🎺🎺🎺——Independent status!
Yes, it would be a roll of the dice & and a very gutsy move, but can you imagine the Apogee home schedule we’d have annually? Apogee Stadium would have to have 42,000 seats minimum; only 11K more than we have now. An 8K double deck on Student Side & A 2K to 3K seat End Zone Facility all horse shoe’d in. Yes in deed, Apogee would have finally gotten past her puberty stage alright!🤭😳🤢

Happy reading!
https://www.deseret.com/sports/2021/7/3/22562379/would-usc-football-usc-trojans-consider-leaving-pac-12-going-independent

❇️🦅❇️

UNTLifer · August 10, 2021

8 hours ago, wardly said:

President JC Matthews did not allow tailgating nor alumni fundraising for athletics. He set the model for UNT's Presidents that stayed in place for over 40 years.

Was tailgating a thing back when Ol' J.C. was President?