Big12 / Pac12 to "talk"

[El Paso Eagle]

Per Footballscoop.com

https://footballscoop.com/news/big-12-pac-12-talk-strategy-alliance-merger-sec-texas-oklahoma

[PlummMeanGreen]

At some point if the PAC12 wants to continue talks beyond next Tuesday with the B12, sounds like ESPN and/or Fox would want to meet with both leagues to show them what kind of TV revenue package they would offer them as a combined league. 

[untjim1995]

Sounds like KU to the B1G is gaining lots of traction...never know, but if so, and if ISU is gone, too, with them, the Texas leftovers are about to be effed

[golfingomez]

I thought initially the PAC just wanted to consider them as a scheduling ally? aka, sure, we'll still play against you if it gets us some money, but we aren't committed to you

 

[El Paso Eagle]

You have to wonder is the Pac12 is trying to determine the Value of accessing the Texas market. 

[Monkeypox]

20 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

You have to wonder is the Pac12 is trying to determine the Value of accessing the Texas market. 

The Pac12 has a HUGE issue in their network distribution, and none of their members are happy about the deal. It's very possible they could look for an entry into the Texas market to help them secure better distribution or increase the value of the Pac12 network in order to sell all or part of it to Fox/CBS/ESPN/whomever.

I've heard so many conflicting things about the conference shakeup, though. We're clearly still very early in it. But you can bet that the other conferences are all trying to align themselves to make the most $$$ and be a part of the new P2-P4.

I really don't know that the remaining Texas schools have a ton of value for the long-term of the major programs, though. Hell, I'm not sure that most of the schools remaining have a ton of value, although an argument could maybe be made for Kansas to B1G and WVU to ACC as overall program/geographic fits (moreso than football, which is the real driver).

Think about this.... Baylor and Tech were GOING to be left out after the dismantling of the SWC. TCU already was. What's changed? Is the panhandle or Waco suddenly a market that the network masters are gunning for? TCU does great in Tarrant County, but they're 5th-6th fiddle in DFW.

So I could absolutely see the Pac12 maybe taking them for now to help correct some of their distribution ills, shore up something in the near-term, and then dump them when they go to a 40-team Super Conference, because I don't think the Texas market as a whole moves for anyone other than UT, OU, A&M, LSU.

 

[MrAlien]

I think this will end up being more of the Pac12 learning from the mistakes of the Big12...

With KU and WV probably gone, the B12 is no longer a power conference.   I think the remaining schools need to sort this out sooner then later while they still have some value. 

[Rudy]

I don't see what value most of the remaining schools offer any P5 conference.  Kansas?  Aside from basketball, what do they offer in a football related conference shuffle.  And Iowa State?  

[UNTLifer]

Iowa State is predicted to challenge OU for the BIG XII Football title by some prognosticators.  

[Rudy]

4 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Iowa State is predicted to challenge OU for the BIG XII Football title by some prognosticators.  

1 out of what, every 20 seasons?

[Monkeypox]

36 minutes ago, Rudy said:

I don't see what value most of the remaining schools offer any P5 conference.  Kansas?  Aside from basketball, what do they offer in a football related conference shuffle.  And Iowa State?  

While it's mostly football, it's still more than JUST football. It's total $$$$. Football brings in the most money, and by a long shot, but Kansas actually brings in a good bit from tournament shares with their consistent greatness as a basketball program. I believe they come in pretty regularly in 3rd place for athletic revenue in the Big12, despite being a crapshow in football.

Keep in mind, also, that the Big Ten is home to Illinois, Maryland, Purdue, and Rutgers. They don't necessarily have to be Ohio State or Michigan to be seen as a worthy revenue-generator for the conference. In the long-term, these power conferences might be looking for replacements, not just adds.

Iowa State gets left in the cold at some point. Is that point now? I got NO idea.

One thing I'm definitely not good at is knowing the true market values of these teams (what does Kansas get you in subscribers vs Texas Tech vs WVU vs Rutgers).  There are many, many people who have a better handle on these things than I do, and that's a huge factor. CBS/Fox/ESPN all know this stuff, and they're the ones driving the bus.

[El Paso Eagle]

2 hours ago, Monkeypox said:

While it's mostly football, it's still more than JUST football. It's total $$$$. Football brings in the most m

Iowa State gets left in the cold at some point. Is that point now? I got NO idea.

 

One thing to keep in mind - Iowa and Kansas are AAU research Universities. This will help them in the eye of University Presidents

[greenminer]

5 hours ago, Rudy said:

1 out of what, every 20 seasons?

 

5 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Iowa State is predicted to challenge OU for the BIG XII Football title by some prognosticators.  

Once every Seneca Wallace.

[UNTLifer]

17 hours ago, Rudy said:

1 out of what, every 20 seasons?

They beat them last year and Campbell is a hell of a coach that has that program in very good shape. Their basketball is usually pretty strong as well although I haven’t followed them too closely the last few years. 

[MrAlien]

I wouldnt discount basketball, there is a lot of media revenue there, and you could make the argument that the remaining B12 teams will have a better media draw with basketball rather then football. 

[untjim1995]

I read an interesting article last night that basically said the ratings that KU and Kentucky get in basketball, as well as their revenues for that sport, are better than a lot of P5 football programs--I'm sure UNC and Duke are the same, too. That's the reason KU gets in somewhere--it combines extremely nicely with AAU status and the Kansas City market.

[ADLER]

Heartland College Sports is contending that Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, and Kansas State may be "locked arms" as a package deal.

Quote

An Unlikely Alliance? – I have also heard that Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, and K-State are trying to work together. The underlying connection is that Tech’s AD, Kirby Hocutt, and OSU’s AD, Chad Weiberg, both have ties to K-State. Hocutt’s ties are particularly strong as he played linebacker for K-State where he was the Big 8’s leading tackler in 1993. Both Hocutt and Weiberg have held administrative roles in K-State’s athletic department. A Tech-OSU-KSU combination does make some sense as it offers three contiguous states that would pair well with the western fringes of the Pac 12 along with three athletic programs with good to great facilities and passionate fan bases.  

They either go to the Pac 12 together, or together they rebuild the Big 12 Conference as best possible.

Something that I thought odd was that those three, and the existing Pac 12 schools, are supposedly more interested in adding Houston than Baylor or TCU as the 16th Pac team.

Quote

 From what I hear, Houston is the most likely pick for a second Texas team due to the size of the Houston market and the Pac-12’s aversion to religiously affiliated schools. 

 I don't put much faith in any of these editorials having real inside information but I did see this as an interesting scenario. Would Arizona, ASU, Colorado, and Utah want to be paired with these schools in an eastern division and lose many of their USC/UCLA ties?

Of course this all falls apart if the BIG preemptively grabs USC and UCLA...but that's another story.

[meangreen11]

6 minutes ago, ADLER said:

Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, and K-State

The reason is they don’t want Houston because they know if Houston is in the same confernece as them the Cougs will dominate them in recruiting Houston etc.  it’s hilarious to see their politicians try to guilt the state into feeling sorry for them when they did the same thing to Houston when they tried to join the Big 12 before!

[Texas Stranger]

This might turn out to be a football-only scheduling hookup (which would include BYU). 

[Texas Stranger]

13 minutes ago, ADLER said:

Heartland College Sports is contending that Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, and Kansas State may be "locked arms" as a package deal.

They either go to the Pac 12 together, or together they rebuild the Big 12 Conference as best possible.

Something that I thought odd was that those three, and the existing Pac 12 schools, are supposedly more interested in adding Houston than Baylor or TCU as the 16th Pac team.

 

Hmmm....is there a market in Texas larger than the Houston area?  And is there a large public university there?

[Mean Green 93-98]

15 minutes ago, meangreen11 said:

The reason is they don’t want Houston because they know if Houston is in the same confernece as them the Cougs will dominate them in recruiting Houston etc.  it’s hilarious to see their politicians try to guilt the state into feeling sorry for them when they did the same thing to Houston when they tried to join the Big 12 before!

They are not really disassociating themselves from Houston in the same way that they are disassociating themselves from their other Big XII conference mates.  They don't really have any present association with Houston to disassociate themselves from.  I imagine if the PAC wanted to take them and Houston, they would be fine with that.

[untjim1995]

UH would be a better pickup, academically, than Tech, KSU, and OSU. And a much better market. UH is an odd one--when they win big, they get a huge following from Houston Proper. When they don't, everyone goes back to caring about pro sports, Aggies, Longhorns, LSU, etc...

I suspect that the bigger names in the Pac 12 are gonna get a Texas/OU type setup in extra payouts to stay, all while Fox and the B1G help keep them afloat thru schedule/bowl alliances. Best thing that could've happened to UH is the existing Big XII to breakup. None of the current Big XII had any interest in letting them get a spot in the conference, knowing they could easily duplicate their SWC days of immediately improving their status on Day One. If UH gets to compete for a spot in the remaining Power League setups, especially against the Big XII leftovers in Texas, they're gonna look a lot more attractive than a lot of people realize. That said, I think they are all gonna get left out and just be some combo of AAC/MWC schools when its all said and done. 

[UNTLifer]

5 hours ago, meangreen11 said:

The reason is they don’t want Houston because they know if Houston is in the same confernece as them the Cougs will dominate them in recruiting Houston etc.  it’s hilarious to see their politicians try to guilt the state into feeling sorry for them when they did the same thing to Houston when they tried to join the Big 12 before!

Looks like they want Houston, or that is the  rumor.

5 hours ago, ADLER said:

Something that I thought odd was that those three, and the existing Pac 12 schools, are supposedly more interested in adding Houston than Baylor or TCU as the 16th Pac team.

 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

On 8/4/2021 at 7:13 PM, El Paso Eagle said:

One thing to keep in mind - Iowa and Kansas are AAU research Universities. This will help them in the eye of University Presidents

15-20 years ago I would agree with you. That was a time where money, though still a factor, was not the ONLY driving factor. Education and the opportunities therein still held weight in regards to the political side of athletics. Collegiate sports are now being operated by the NCAA in theory only, media rights held by the names we all know are pulling all the strings behind the curtain. 

With that said, I don't see how Baylor and TCU make it out of this. I'm not sure how Vandy will hang onto its SEC membership. Same can be said for at least 2 or 3 programs in every P5 conference. I think before it's all said and done, maybe by 2030, we're going to be looking at a collegiate NFL model with maybe 25 teams in each division, at most.