Comparing the trajectory of Bob Stoops and Seth Littrell

[Jonnyeagle]

Stoops was hired by OU in 1996.  In his 1st 5 seasons:

1999: 7-5 -  Tied for 2nd - Independence Bowl L
2000:  13-0 - 1st place - Orange Bowl W
2001:  11-2 - 2nd place - Cotton Bowl W
2002:  12-2 - Tied for 1st - Rose Bowl W
2003: 12-1 - 1st Place - Orange Bowl L

Stoop's worst record in a almost 20 year span as HC was an 8-5 in 2009 and 2014.

Seth Littrell was hired by UNT in 2015.  In his 1st 5 seasons:

2016: 5-8 - 4th place - Heart of Dallas L
2017: 9-5 - 1st place - New Orleans L
2018 9-4 - Tied for 2nd - New Mexico L
2019 4-8 - Tied for 4th - No Bowl
2020 4-6 - 4th Place - Myrtle Beach L

You could argue - albeit at a much lower level - Seth was on a Stoops type trajectory in years 2-3.  So WTF happened in 2019?  The only thing I can point to is he no longer could live off of McCarney's players and the K-State job opportunity came and went.   You could also say there was a huge amount of assistant turnover he had to deal with but welcome to the G5.   Does he get a Covid pass for 2020?  These are all questions that will have to be analyzed by Wren (or Jared) during and after this season.  But it is interesting to see how boldly Littrell began his career at UNT and how quickly it came apart.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Jonnyeagle

[DemolitionDan]

Graham left... that's what happened.

[MGNation92]

Seth did what Kevin Sumlin did at A&M. Rode his legendary QB to an insane amount of money and coasted into mediocrity once he left.

Edited July 27, 2021 by MGNation92

[TheColonyEagle]

Stoops won the NC in his 2nd year.....That buys a lot of benefit of the doubt. However, I'm thinking if the best Stoops would've done is 9 wins he would've never seen the end of his 4th season if it were headed toward 4-8. That's the difference between big time programs and ours. (obviously $$$ is a big key)

[Salsa_Verde]

Can we like….not? 

[El Paso Eagle]

2 hours ago, DemolitionDan said:

Graham left... that's what happened.

If you go back, many of the people saying the same thing were not fans of GH. There was a time if you tried to give GH credit you were "set strait" quickly

[untjim1995]

This is a forced comparison…

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

2 hours ago, DemolitionDan said:

Graham left... that's what happened.

Bingo. Mason didn’t look the same, the offense didn’t look the same without him. 
 

Maybe one day, Graham comes back as head coach and leads us to glory

[Marty]

Stoops placed at least a little value on defense.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

4 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

If you go back, many of the people saying the same thing were not fans of GH. There was a time if you tried to give GH credit you were "set strait" quickly

I was one. I'll admit. I just hated when push came to shove when GH was here and we needed that 1 yard, we never got it. Then I soon realized, after GH left of course, that we kept doing the exact same play in those scenarios. 

[Harry]

3 hours ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

Bingo. Mason didn’t look the same, the offense didn’t look the same without him. 
 

Maybe one day, Graham comes back as head coach and leads us to glory

Graham deserves a lot of credit for what he accomplished here.

[untjim1995]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

Graham deserves a lot of credit for what he accomplished here.

Don’t be surprised to see him at the top of a list to replace Littrell. His name is pretty well known thru Texas. Not saying he’s my pick, not at all, but he’s gonna be near the top.

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

36 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Don’t be surprised to see him at the top of a list to replace Littrell. His name is pretty well known thru Texas. Not saying he’s my pick, not at all, but he’s gonna be near the top.

Why would he not be your pick? He is almost everything you want in a coach here. He’s young, has a great football mind (mainly on offense), can develop kids into athletes, can recruit, could probably find a great staff. I mean he got USC’s QB to be a star after their 1st and 2nd string kids got hurt.

He has serious talent, and would be at the top of the list, if not 1, if Seth gets the boot.

[untjim1995]

Just now, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

Why would he not be your pick? He is almost everything you want in a coach here. He’s young, has a great football mind (mainly on offense), can develop kids into athletes, can recruit, could probably find a great staff. I mean he got USC’s QB to be a star after their 1st and 2nd string kids got hurt.

He has serious talent, and would be at the top of the list, if not 1, if Seth gets the boot.

I’d just like to see who else would be interested. You never know if a big named coach gets fired or gets in trouble and would come back to being a HFC at UNT. Nothing wrong or against GH, who will be a strong candidate here, but I’ve always liked the idea of getting someone here who has already proven to know how to win as a head football coach.

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

2 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I’d just like to see who else would be interested. You never know if a big named coach gets fired or gets in trouble and would come back to being a HFC at UNT. Nothing wrong or against GH, who will be a strong candidate here, but I’ve always liked the idea of getting someone here who has already proven to know how to win as a head football coach.

I guess so. I mean Graham isn’t as experienced at HC, but the features and weapons he possesses is so dangerous and could be used in so many good ways here. 
I mean at one point, teams have taken a change at a young coach and they would develop into great coaches. Why not do that with Graham?

This also all depends on how 2021 goes for Seth, so right now it’s all hypothetical. But the relationships he established with players like Mason made the story even better

[97and03]

2 hours ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

Why would he not be your pick? He is almost everything you want in a coach here. He’s young, has a great football mind (mainly on offense), can develop kids into athletes, can recruit, could probably find a great staff. I mean he got USC’s QB to be a star after their 1st and 2nd string kids got hurt.

He has serious talent, and would be at the top of the list, if not 1, if Seth gets the boot.

My knock on GH was that we usually started fast but rarely overcome the defensive adjustments of the opponents in the second half. Against bad defenses his game plan worked very well. Against competent DC’s he struggled to match their adjustments. 
Without looking I would guess every USC qb is four stars at the least? I would hope he can with with that. 

[GreenGang45]

5 hours ago, 97and03 said:

My knock on GH was that we usually started fast but rarely overcome the defensive adjustments of the opponents in the second half. Against bad defenses his game plan worked very well. Against competent DC’s he struggled to match their adjustments. 
Without looking I would guess every USC qb is four stars at the least? I would hope he can with with that. 

Sometimes it comes down to players and not scheme. I agree with you to a certain extent 

[tmjerm]

Other than Seth playing for Stoops, what is the anchor of the comparison?  Stoops was at Oklahoma, a school powerful enough to disrupt the entire CFB universe.  Seth is here.  I think we're missing some variables. 

[meangreen11]

21 minutes ago, tmjerm said:

Other than Seth playing for Stoops, what is the anchor of the comparison?  Stoops was at Oklahoma, a school powerful enough to disrupt the entire CFB universe.  Seth is here.  I think we're missing some variables. 

Both were former assistants and were in their first D1 head coaching position.   Both played the game and were good college players.  Stoops came to Norman in 1999 with limited experience in the region.  Similarly Littrell did not have experience in the DFW region other than occasional recruiting endeavors.  Stoops hired Mike Leach as his offensive coordinator and opened up the air raid.  Littrell was an assistant under Mike Leach and considered a disciple of the air raid.

Of course OU is a power program and has totally different resources etc.  That said, OU was pretty down before Stoops got there and had hit hard times under John Blake.  I think you could argue UNT has similar resources (facilities salaries) if you compare it to other CUSA programs.  
 

What I see is two new head coaches that started off ok in year one and exploded in years 2-3. After that one coach continued to win and win big and the other regressed.  Why is that?  Recruiting and assistant coaching hires come to mind but I am sure there are other reasons as well.

[UNTLifer]

3 hours ago, tmjerm said:

I think we're missing some variables. 

[All About UNT]

Stoops took over one of the most well-oiled programs in NCAA history from Switzer lol.

This comparison is an absolute joke.  

With that said... Stoops was making 1 million a year at the now shuddered Dallas Renegades.  Could he? Would he? 

[TheColonyEagle]

12 minutes ago, All About UNT said:

….Stoops was making 1 million a year at the now shuddered Dallas Renegades.  Could he? Would he? 

I have always thought that call should be made after Littrell. 

[All About UNT]

Just now, TheColonyEagle said:

I have always thought that call should be made after Littrell. 

Question is would he take the job merely based off of the relationship he has with Littrell?  Nevermind the myriad of other reasons he would say no...