SMU one of the top candidates to join the Big 12 if Texas, Oklahoma jump to SEC

Mike Jackson · July 24, 2021

54 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Thank your local Mean Green coach and/or administrator.

I think that is the easy out. Let’s look at September 29, 2018 a 4-0. A Mean Green Team with UNT enrollment larger than the Apogee stadium capacity coming off beating SMU and Arkansas with hands down the best QB and WR talent combination we have ever had could not sellout Apogee stadium. If the standard here is that you have to be legit in the national championship picture to sellout a stadium under 35,000 in capacity what is an AD supposed to do? The independent route I suggested is a hail mary cause nothing else reasonably achievable without a huge increase in support. I was more disappointed that it wasn’t a sellout than by the close loss.

So you can point fingers at current leadership if you want but thousands of Alumni and fans gave the middle finger to them before kickoff that day by not buying every available ticket.

Mike Jackson · July 24, 2021

On 7/23/2021 at 4:34 PM, Wag Tag said:

FCS statement is BS! Are we really going to bitch it we add Tulsa, Tulane and the Naval Academy to our schedule or even ECU? It will be interesting to see if the MWC makes some changes.

None of those teams move the needle here except the Naval Academy. I buy Tulsa and Tulane but we have to play they regularly over a decade to develop a rivalry that would move the needle. The FCS is NOT a solution. Dropping down to FCS was the worst thing the athletic department ever did next to playing “home games” in Dallas. Fouts Field should have seriously upgraded before they moved back up to FBS. The time to do that was 1990, those aluminum stands to meet the capacity requirement was a joke. UNT got serious about FBS level football way too late. Darrell Dickey was right. They Under committed in the early days and now overcommitting may not be able to close the gap.

GrandGreen · July 24, 2021

On 7/24/2021 at 4:30 PM, Mike Jackson said:

I think that is the easy out. Let’s look at September 29, 2018 a 4-0. A Mean Green Team with UNT enrollment larger than the Apogee stadium capacity coming off beating SMU and Arkansas with hands down the best QB and WR talent combination we have ever had could not sellout Apogee stadium. If the standard here is that you have to be legit in the national championship picture to sellout a stadium under 35,000 in capacity what is an AD supposed to do? The independent route I suggested is a hail mary cause nothing else reasonably achievable without a huge increase in support. I was more disappointed that it wasn’t a sellout than by the close loss.

So you can point fingers at current leadership if you want but thousands of Alumni and fans gave the middle finger to them before kickoff that day by not buying every available ticket.

Attendance is nice, but the numbers mostly are completely bogus outside of the few teams that actually get sellouts. Anyone who thinks SMU has an advantage because of real attendance has not been to many of their games.

Support in terms of donations is certainly lacking for NT, but they make up for it with a huge student population that currently must pay athletics fees. If you want real student abuse look at what ODU and Charlotte soak their students for.

I think there are just too many NT fans that love to sight NT shortcomings without really comparing those factors at other G5 schools.

NT biggest problem is the very poor CUSA contributions to member schools. Not a knock on CUSA, just recognition that AAC teams in particular, have an enormous financial advantage.

Edited July 27, 2021 by GrandGreen

greenminer · July 24, 2021

2 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

They had a plan?

For whatever reason new start-ups seem to know the formula.

What I take from the last 30 years: It's not just about doing all the right things, it's about UNT doing nearly all the wrong things.

Hanging onto RV
Letting Todge bring in a HS staff
Not firing Benford after his first season.

...shall I go on? We all know there is TONS more.

Mike Jackson · July 24, 2021

10 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Attendance is nice, but the numbers mostly are completely bogus outside of the few teams that actually get sellouts. Anyone who thinks SMU has an advantage because of real attendance has not been to many of their games.

Support in terms of donations is certainly lacking for NT, but they make up for it with a huge student population that currently must pay athletics fees. If you want real student abuse look at what ODU and Charlotte soak their students for.

I think there are just too many NT fans that love to sight NT shortcomings without really comparing those fantors at other G5 schools.

NT biggest problem is the very poor CUSA contributions to member schools. Not a knock on CUSA, just recognition that AAC teams in particular, have an enormous financial advantage.

SMU yes probably doesn’t out draw us by much but I can see those “bogus numbers” are so bogus when I watch those other G5 games in person or on TV. And TV is what counts. In have to negotiate good TV rights deals to partners when after halftime in a close game they routinely have to avoid HUGE empty spots in our stadium. The fact is that in all but the opening game at Apogee against Houston, the Halloween game against UTSA, and the La Tech game I mention the attendance is pathetic. Hell the student side is never full and their tickets are paid for, just register and walk across campus. 🤷🏽 We should be averaging 25,000+ easy in 0.500 seasons and we aren’t even close. If we are going to move up the attendance numbers have to improve. I think CUSA, AAC, and Sun Belt need to come together Realign geographically and Negotiate one big TV package together maybe with Bally Sports. With this new P4 super conference structure I don’t know how many “money game” slots will be available going forward if they opt to play more conference games or have semi final conference championship games. The SEC might opt to only have one non-conference game per team and play 10 game conference schedules to maximize the number of games they sell to TV with no rights conflicts. Regardless of the below P4/P5 conference we are in revenue will be poor. We already out spend most of our conference rivals but have generally not lived up to that financial investment on the field or in fan support.

(Also those 3 G5 conferences could eliminate a lot of staff and overhead cost by working together. Keep the historical names of the conferences but one collective business with 3 regional offices. The more the “little guys” adopt the collective NFL model the more likely they will survive. The cut-throat history of Big 8, SWC, and Big 12 left every school from it somewhat wounded. They all might have deeper pockets from leaving but on the field success took huge steps back for all of them. Maybe you could argue about Johnny Football’s TAMU. Oklahoma might be fine but UT is in for a rude awakening.)

GrandGreen · July 25, 2021

1 hour ago, Mike Jackson said:

SMU yes probably doesn’t out draw us by much but I can see those “bogus numbers” are so bogus when I watch those other G5 games in person or on TV. And TV is what counts. In have to negotiate good TV rights deals to partners when after halftime in a close game they routinely have to avoid HUGE empty spots in our stadium. The fact is that in all but the opening game at Apogee against Houston, the Halloween game against UTSA, and the La Tech game I mention the attendance is pathetic. Hell the student side is never full and their tickets are paid for, just register and walk across campus. 🤷🏽 We should be averaging 25,000+ easy in 0.500 seasons and we aren’t even close. If we are going to move up the attendance numbers have to improve. I think CUSA, AAC, and Sun Belt need to come together Realign geographically and Negotiate one big TV package together maybe with Bally Sports. With this new P4 super conference structure I don’t know how many “money game” slots will be available going forward if they opt to play more conference games or have semi final conference championship games. The SEC might opt to only have one non-conference game per team and play 10 game conference schedules to maximize the number of games they sell to TV with no rights conflicts. Regardless of the below P4/P5 conference we are in revenue will be poor. We already out spend most of our conference rivals but have generally not lived up to that financial investment on the field or in fan support.

(Also those 3 G5 conferences could eliminate a lot of staff and overhead cost by working together. Keep the historical names of the conferences but one collective business with 3 regional offices. The more the “little guys” adopt the collective NFL model the more likely they will survive. The cut-throat history of Big 8, SWC, and Big 12 left every school from it somewhat wounded. They all might have deeper pockets from leaving but on the field success took huge steps back for all of them. Maybe you could argue about Johnny Football’s TAMU. Oklahoma might be fine but UT is in for a rude awakening.)

A lot of verbiage here, but what different are you stating? What G5 programs have significantly better attendance than NT and where do you get those numbers.

It sure is not SMU unless the away crowd floods the stadium. UH draws well when they are winning, and very poorly when they are not.

Quote from above, "NT biggest problem is the very poor CUSA contributions to member schools. Not a knock on CUSA, just recognition that AAC teams in particular, have an enormous financial advantage". This refers to the poor CUSA contract.

As far as what is going to happen, based on reports; it could be very advantageous to NT. Yes, it could go the other way, but in reality NT doesn't have far to fall. NT nor any other D1 team is going to be forced to move down.

Left out, may be, but not forced out. I can't see any likely scenario were NT is worst off.

You may not have noticed, but NT is no longer financing their team with guarantee games.

Sure the bottom could completely fall out of college sports and the courts seem intent on making that happen. That is going to harm every team not just G5's. Do you think college coaches or presidents want to play only conference members? Those winning seasons are going to be a lot harder to achieve and keep the fanbase happy.

El Paso Eagle · July 25, 2021

5 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

I think about this and cringe. Liberty just moved to FBS a few years ago.

What's the saying about "if you throw enough money at an issue"? These two schools are prime examples

untjim1995 · July 26, 2021

On 7/23/2021 at 9:49 AM, drex said:

It is amusing to me that Long Jim mentioned academics...academics will have little to do with the reconfiguration of semi-professional football.

It won’t for the B1G—there conference consortium is made up of AAU research schools that make more money academically thru research grants than thru athletics…and they make a lot thru athletics.

But for the other conferences, there’s no doubt that academics really takes a backseat.

PlummMeanGreen · July 26, 2021

Everyone predicts doom for UT in the SEC.

Go to Austin, take a tour, meet some of their high rollers then come back & tell all how UT is fighting with such a short stick.
•••I think the SEC will be the stimulus for UT to get back on track as during the Mack Brown years. Honest Injun’...

🦅

Rudy · July 26, 2021

I blame the orange seats in the Super Pit.

Arkstfan · July 26, 2021

On 7/24/2021 at 3:11 PM, DeepGreen said:

I think about this and cringe. Liberty just moved to FBS a few years ago.

Liberty’s President who had to resign in disgrace hired an AD who been disgraced and a football coach who not only had the disgrace of being caught booking hookers on his school phone, he exposed his school to millions in potential contract liability by planting a fake story about his predecessor, and got hit with a one year show cause order by the NCAA.

If ethics don’t matter then yeah instant success is possible. Send your kid to Liberty. The AD will protect them from rogue athletes and they won’t be threatened with honor code violations if they want to pursue a claim.

What’s it matter long as you win. That ironically is why SMU was a turtle on its back for decades until the stench finally faded.

El Paso Eagle · July 26, 2021

11 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

It won’t for the B1G—there conference consortium is made up of AAU research schools that make more money academically thru research grants than thru athletics…and they make a lot thru athletics.

But for the other conferences, there’s no doubt that academics really takes a backseat.

Hard to disagree, but go back and check the difference in applications at Northwestern when they started winning in football

untjim1995 · July 26, 2021

31 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Hard to disagree, but go back and check the difference in applications at Northwestern when they started winning in football

No doubt…TCU and Boston College have had similar jumps after winning

GrandGreen · July 27, 2021

13 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

Everyone predicts doom for UT in the SEC.

Go to Austin, take a tour, meet some of their high rollers then come back & tell all how UT is fighting with such a short stick.
•••I think the SEC will be the stimulus for UT to get back on track as during the Mack Brown years. Honest Injun’...

🦅

Short stick, doesn't UT have the largest athletic budget in the NCAA?

UT can go to any conference they want: SEC, PAC 10, B10