SMU one of the top candidates to join the Big 12 if Texas, Oklahoma jump to SEC

Wag Tag · July 23, 2021

49 minutes ago, Udomann said:

XFL...AAF...all those failed leagues. No one cares if you aren't in the premiere league. The money will dry up and go to the big dogs

If we end up in 2nd tier football (P5 Mega conferences, Other Div 1s, FCS) no one really cares about you anymore (unless you are the QB from North Dakota).

I expect, if it goes that way, most Div-1 non-FCS will end up moving down. A few will cancel football entirely. The rest will have to follow the majority in those by necessity. Are you really going to tune in for Eastern Carolina vs UNLV bowl game championship? maybe if it's a Tuesday afternoon and I've had a lot to drink.

So no one cared about our C-USA champ in basketball, no one cared when we beat Univ of San Fran to win that tournament, no one cared about our bowl win with 30,000 plus in attendance, or when we beat UA? Let's be a successful mid major on a continuous basis! I believe the majority of fans would be very happy.

Udomann · July 23, 2021

14 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

So no one cared about our C-USA champ in basketball, no one cared when we beat Univ of San Fran to win that tournament, no one cared about our bowl win with 30,000 plus in attendance, or when we beat UA? Let's be a successful mid major on a continuous basis! I believe the majority of fans would be very happy.

I won’t say it can’t work. But how many FCS games did you watch last year? I watched 2 and I’m a football addict according to the very unhappy mrs.

There’s still some money and success in lower rank organizations... but that to me is a worst case scenario

Edited July 23, 2021 by Udomann

NorthTexasWeLove · July 23, 2021

3 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

If things really do go to Super Conferences, it’s honestly BIG XII or bust. Five 16-team Super Conferences probably means anyone not in that group of 80 schools might as well be playing FCS.

This is 100% correct. There is a 15 team expansion into big time college football taking place, from 65 to 80. Be one of the 15 or slash your athletic budget a great deal and. spend how you're perceived. Doing otherwise would be a gross waste of money.

Wag Tag · July 23, 2021

1 minute ago, Udomann said:

I won’t say it can’t work. But how many FCS games did you watch last year. I watched 2 and I’m a football addict according to the very unhappy mrs.

There’s still some money and success in lower rank organizations... but that to me is a worst case scenario

FCS statement is BS! Are we really going to bitch it we add Tulsa, Tulane and the Naval Academy to our schedule or even ECU? It will be interesting to see if the MWC makes some changes.

Udomann · July 23, 2021

8 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

Someone at the athletic department needs to figure this thing out and move UNT forward.

That someone is Wren Baker, who so far has done a phenomenal job. We are about to find out if he’s got the marbles to make the big decision and buy out Seth. I believe he will. (All assuming this year goes as expected with a rather bad losing record).

GrandGreen · July 23, 2021

Why do so many think academics is going to be a factor. First, there is no way to measure academics other than rankings that have a lot less basis than sport ratings.

A lot of lip service is paid to academics, but it won't be a major factor. Most schools will take any athlete that can get through the NCAA clearinghouse minimum standards if they are a good enough sports performer.

Does anyone really think Alabama is going to offer an academic gifted football player over an significantly better athlete?

Colleges are first and foremost businesses, that are far more interested in enrollment than maintaining high academic standards.

Some such as Stanford, Rice and the Ivy league schools that have substantially more applicants than they can accommodate, can afford to be very selective. That selectivity usually doesn't filter down to athletics.

RBP79 · July 23, 2021

4 hours ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

AAC OR BUST FOR UNT!

The way it works for NT we move to AAC and half of CUSA comes with us....

PlummMeanGreen · July 23, 2021

1 hour ago, Arkstfan said:

Exactly. Right now there are 65 P5 teams. No way it grows to 66 much less 80.

The number is going to drop.

The power leagues are made up of dogs and ticks. The dogs make the money and the ticks feed off the work of the dogs.

You take Nebraska, OU UT and TAMU off the schedules and KU off in hoops and who outside the respective fan bases cares? I’d just as soon watch Fresno and San Diego State as Baylor and Kansas State.

Glad to see you back, Arkstfan.

😊For locals, at 5:45--5-55 today on 1310 KTCK Corby is going to discuss what he thinks will happen to TCU. As an OU enthusiast he’s loving all this.
Robinson said earlier that TAMU absolutely got screwed on this.
KTCK reported earlier all this with UT/OU has been in the works for a year, but the Aggies just found out about it.
Hullabaloo Ka’ screwed, Ka’screwed?

🦅

Edited July 23, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

Jonnyeagle · July 23, 2021

24 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

Sadly, no one with the power to fix it seems too concerned.

We agree on most of your points but I disagree that they are just sitting on their hands. I think they are probably concerned but with the buyout over 2 million dollars there isn't a line of donors stepping up with their checkbooks. Keep in mind, we got stuck with the entire McCarney buyout because he retired and never got another job after UNT. Donors that funded his buyout were told that some of that would not have to be paid because we expected him to at least land an assistant gig. Most of the time when coaches get canned they take other gigs and that offsets your buyout. Simply put I don't know that we can afford to buy Littrell out now. When K-State came calling, we really upped his guaranteed compensation to keep him here for a long time.

meangreenJW · July 23, 2021

32 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Why do so many think academics is going to be a factor. First, there is no way to measure academics other than rankings that have a lot less basis than sport ratings.

A lot of lip service is paid to academics, but it won't be a major factor. Most schools will take any athlete that can get through the NCAA clearinghouse minimum standards if they are a good enough sports performer.

Does anyone really think Alabama is going to offer an academic gifted football player over an significantly better athlete?

Colleges are first and foremost businesses, that are far more interested in enrollment than maintaining high academic standards.

Some such as Stanford, Rice and the Ivy league schools that have substantially more applicants than they can accommodate, can afford to be very selective. That selectivity usually doesn't filter down to athletics.

For whatever reason it seemed last time academic profile made a big difference. It played a huge part in Tulane and Tulsa into the AAC, and Mizzou into the SEC. After a while I'm sure everyone looks about the same athletic wise. I think our tier 1 research will help. But AAU level institutions get a boost for sure or at least they have in the past.

NorthTexasWeLove · July 23, 2021

28 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

Even if Seth was removed today and a big splash hire was made, it is likely too late to take advantage of the current situation. This is Seth's 6th year at UNT. We should be where SMU and Liberty are right now. Sadly, no one with the power to fix it seems too concerned.

Exactly this. People praise WB and maybe rightfully so. But he has handed out unneeded extensions and that might be getting ready to smack him in the mouth, and upon his hire he over hired too much big salaried insulation. Anyway... In the current downward spiral, there's a feeling and it may just be me, people in the athletic department are dragging feet.

GrandGreen · July 23, 2021

16 minutes ago, meangreenJW said:

For whatever reason it seemed last time academic profile made a big difference. It played a huge part in Tulane and Tulsa into the AAC, and Mizzou into the SEC. After a while I'm sure everyone looks about the same athletic wise. I think our tier 1 research will help. But AAU level institutions get a boost for sure or at least they have in the past.

How could you possibly know what effect the so called athletic profile had on adding those schools. Academics are often cited as a rationale for inclusion, but there is no way to actually know if it was.

Mike Jackson · July 23, 2021

3 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

How much money are schools going to continue to throw down the drain? I look for a some programs to go FCS or drop football all together.

8 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

Even if Seth was removed today and a big splash hire was made, it is likely too late to take advantage of the current situation. This is Seth's 6th year at UNT. We should be where SMU and Liberty are right now. Sadly, no one with the power to fix it seems too concerned.

I can link both of these perspectives to the central issue of most UNT Alumni being apathetic. We don’t have many loyal alumni with deep pockets willing to have large long term donation commitments. The average earning UNT alumni doesn’t make donation to the program. RV totally wasted and goodwill momentum we had with horrible hiring decisions among other bad decisions. Also UNT Football doesn’t even own Denton on Saturdays. You average Denton resident without a conflicting connections ( meaning an immediate family member attending another FBS level school or even more significant). I think PR in Denton was lacking for first decade of our return to the FBS level. And the stupidity of playing “home games” in Dallas was beyond insane. I am not sure how I would approach trying to compensate for all that bad history. But one of our primary focuses should be to get your average Denton resident to buy into UNT being “their community’s school” even though they may have ties to another school. Sadly right now I think it is far more likely that we are back at the FCS level within the decade than having home and home series with Big 12 schools. I do think the best and boldest move would be trying to go independent with home and home contracts with best regional teams we can get and payday games with blue bloods.

Home & Home Series Candidates

TCU, SMU, Tulsa, Houston, Texas State, UTEP, Tulane, La Tech, Colorado State, KSU, Kansas, Rice, (pinch my nose admitting UTSA). Texas Tech, Arkansas State, Louisiana, New Mexico and New Mexico State, Air Force, Baylor, UAB, Troy, South Alabama, Memphis,

Money Games

Texas, Texas A&M, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri, LSU, Louisville

I know some might scoff at this thinking about “how would we get into a Bowl Game”. Any bowl game that doesn’t have an existing contract for a G5 Champion and/or history going back 40+ years will very likely be going away once the 12 team playoff starts. So in this new landscape you will have to win a conference to get into a bowl game if you are not in a power conference. That isn’t a much tougher or likely scenario than winning all these independently scheduled games one year minus the or two money game(s). As for recruiting CUSA, MWC, nor AAC helps it is the teams that are the draw not the conferences. So if you can cobble together 5 contracted years of an independent schedule with the teams I mentioned, it is actually better than conference games with Charlotte, Liberty, ODU, FIU, FAU, Western Kentucky, and MTSU (they say MTSU is a rival, who actually buys into that?) Playing games in the next time zone against teams with no brand recognition locally does NOTHING for us especially when they beat us. We should schedule the best games possible regionally and money games regionally. Being independent gives us the best opportunity to do that.

With all that said I would like to pose the question. As FBS shifts more to being a semi-pro league than a college extracurricular endeavor will the money pie really shrink or grow? (keep in mind everything grows but will that growth significantly outpace inflation). I am not certain TV Execs understand and appreciate the difference between NFL fandom and FBS fandom. If an when all these shift happen I will be dramatically less interested in FBS football if regional teams like Baylor, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Houston, SMU, TCU, UTEP, UTSA and UNT are wandering around in a waste land with No Hopes of ever getting a Blue Blood program to come to their house to play. I watch UT because they are playing one of those school I mentioned or a powerhouse team (that particular year). I don’t care when UT is playing middle tier or lower tier P5 conference team in another time zone.

BillySee58 · July 23, 2021

3 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

So we don’t get a chance in the play off picture at this time? Do we really give a $hyt? Win conference titles and bowl games and I am a happy camper. Play offs will continue to be expanded when they see how much $$$ are being made. Talking billions! GMG

Right, which is why I’m saying that’s the same whether we are in the AAC or CUSA.

Arkstfan · July 23, 2021

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

How could you possibly know what effect the so called athletic profile had on adding those schools. Academics are often cited as a rationale for inclusion, but there is no way to actually know if it was.

BYU. The most BCS like school in the non-BCS got left out while Utah, TCU and Louisville made it.

UNTLifer · July 24, 2021

Not getting the love for nor the attraction of Colorado State

PlummMeanGreen · July 24, 2021

NO LOVE FOR UNT, EITHER. 🤢
A 41, 000 enrollment school with close to 300K North Texas region alums? We have twice the number of UNT students who live on or near our campus than TCU & SMU’s combined enrollment. WTH, we don’t have enough upside for some of the (traditionist) old barnacles in charge of these re-alignments to even give us a nod? 😞(Of course, while this latest re-alignment hoopla is happening our football program would just happen to be in a 2 year losing cycle).

Like ex UNT regent the late Winn Brown told me at a UNT function years ago: “North Texas should have seriously started a move toward the SWC & a more Major College football existence during the Abner Haynes era.” Well🤔, OK.
(Honestly, you get 50 UNT people in a room & you get 50 different ways to solve our future athletic situation—-Hell, that’s no different than what goes on here at GMG.com).🤭😊😆

I mentioned to Mr. Brown after reading some of our UNT history that North Texas lost some SWC opponents who we were negotiating with for future games & one who dropped us off their future football schedule. All that because (then) traditional Caucasian UNT had become an integration pioneer in Texas while integrating (in the mid-1950’s) with the great Abner Haynes & Leon King. (Brown acted surprised on the scheduling part).
••• Even more surprising was the SWC school who dropped us off their schedule was affiliated with the Disciples of Christ denomination. ••• I guess they thought Jesus would concur with “THAT” decision to drop North Texas off it’s schedule because we integrated for heaven’s sake? (We should have integrated in 1890).

It seems the Texas NCAA football pecking order will never change & would take an act of God for it to do so. •••Personally, I hope the Big 12 completely dissolves, remaining members go East & West & leaves some very “deserving” schools out to dry. Let them squirm a little like we have just about forever.

🏈 ENOUGH!😌
All I want now is a Fletcher’s Corny Dog & a brewsky over at our fabulous Apogee Stadium because I just want to watch some Mean Green football! GOMEANGREEN! (I really think this team will surprise many by season’s end—I really do)

❇️🦅❇️

Edited July 24, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

97and03 · July 24, 2021

23 hours ago, drex said:

It is amusing to me that Long Jim mentioned academics...academics will have little to do with the reconfiguration of semi-professional football.

I think for the PAC and B1G academics matter a lot still. Most of those schools have strong academic reputations (not all I suppose: see Nebraska and AzSt) and they aren’t likely to bring in a Tech or KSt.

meangreenJW · July 24, 2021

I see so many lamenting shortcomings (real or perceived). I'm encouraged because in my lifetime UNT has never been better positioned. Would it be better if we were coming off the two 9 wins seasons, perhaps. But I'd like to think University presidents are looking more big picture than that. UNT has very strong enrollment, vastly improved academic and research rankings, vastly improved facilities, and an athletic program that is coming off of one of the best 5 year stretches in it's history all things considered. There's no doubt, there are things that would make our profile better that we have yet to accomplish. But with current leadership, I believe we are in the best position in our history.

MCMLXXX · July 24, 2021

Perspective of a TCU fan.

TCU might survive realignment, but college football — as we know it — might not. (msn.com)

PlummMeanGreen · July 24, 2021

TCU fancied up Amon Carter Stadium especially to accommodate the crown prince duo of UT & OU. When the Horned Frogs entered the Big 12 they thought their years of conference-hopping were finally over. Not.

After this 2021 season TCU will probably see neither on their future OOC schedule except (maybe) on a rare occasion. All will soon know that the TCU faithful will probably take this Big 12 implosion harder than anyone.
Sure, Horned Frog officials & fans will come up with a brave, strong face & a “we’ll be just fine” narrative to mask what will be an extreme disappointment. Any school & their fans would do the same.

In the Lone Star State, if you are not UT or TAMU, you best be ready for extreme highs & lows with re-alignment wars now & probably in the future. Nothing is set in stone with NCAA intercollegiate conferences.
___________________

TCU’s Conference Journeys

September 7th, 1996– TCU’s first game as a WAC member is a a 20-7 victory on the road over Oklahoma. The team finishes the season 4-7, winning 3 WAC Conference games.

2001: TCU leaves the WAC and begins Conference USA play. Defensive coordinator Gary Patterson takes over as head coach.

2005: On July 1st, TCU joins the Mountain West Conference, part of a nation-wide conference realignment that occurred from 2005 to 2006.
(TCU would briefly be a member of the Big East, but would never play one down in that conference).

July 1, 2012: TCU invited to the Big 12.

🦅

Edited July 24, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

DeepGreen · July 24, 2021

21 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

We should be where SMU and Liberty are right now.

I think about this and cringe. Liberty just moved to FBS a few years ago.

PlummMeanGreen · July 24, 2021

3 minutes ago, DeepGreen said:

I think about this and cringe. Liberty just moved to FBS a few years ago.

They had a plan?

For whatever reason new start-ups seem to know the formula.

NorthTexasWeLove · July 24, 2021

6 minutes ago, DeepGreen said:

I think about this and cringe. Liberty just moved to FBS a few years ago.

Thank your local Mean Green coach and/or administrator.

PlummMeanGreen · July 24, 2021

So might some of the P5 conference leftovers only have Major Independent P5 status as their only choice? If a TCU doesn’t want any association with UH or SMU what’s their choice? They have liked their rogue existence in the past; much like TAMU thought they had one in the SEC.

What would be a new P5 Independent criteria for other newbies interested or will the P5 Super Conference boys continue for a closed P5 membership?

One Possible Criteria for Those Seeking A Projected New P5 Independent Status? ••• The NCAA should require a minimum 42,000 seat stadium for starters. That would really separate the wheat from the chafe with most presently at the G5 level.

But.....would North Texas powers that be ever have the balls to leave the OldDenton attitude behind & seek Major Independent P5 status? Hell, what would we do with any added (significant) TV revenue since we basically get $0.00 now as a CUSA G5 member?

🍷🍷 We have to dream at UNT or we’ll be exactly where we are now 25 years from the present.

Edited July 24, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen