NIL out of hand already

[greenminer]

2 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Would love to see a "kid" do this with Saban. Have a feeling that young man would be gone in a second

That's what I'm thinking.  Your brand may be making you money, but it isn't making you bigger than Alabama (not yet, anyways).

Saban has 4 and 5* kids lined up to take his place and win their own national title.

[ttunt1970]

What meanrob said 😀🦅

[Cr1028]

3 hours ago, keith said:

I wonder how much of his NIL value is derived from playing for Alabama.  

Exactly, he should give a cut to Mac Jones, Tua, and Jalen Hurts for turning the starting job at Bama into a 7-figured endorsed position. (I’m not actually of the opinions he should but I do think he’d be on a way lower deal without them paving the way). 10-15 years ago it would’ve been  Texas or USC. 20 it may have been Tennesee, and before that maybe Nebraska.

[Mean Green 93-98]

Check this out...BYU has used this to find a way around scholarship limits:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/every-byu-walk-on-football-player-receives-nil-deal-from-sponsor-covering-cost-of-scholarships/

 

[NT93]

1 hour ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

Check this out...BYU has used this to find a way around scholarship limits:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/every-byu-walk-on-football-player-receives-nil-deal-from-sponsor-covering-cost-of-scholarships/

 

The most shocking part of this is that it’s BYU.  NIL will ruin college sports as we know them.

[DentonLurker]

13 minutes ago, NT93 said:

The most shocking part of this is that it’s BYU.  NIL will ruin college sports as we know them.

College sports have been broken for a while. In the top level of football, only a handful of teams have had a shot at a national championship for a long time now. If that’s not broken, I don’t know what is. I’m glad things are getting shaken up. Schools need to do a lot of soul searching to figure out what the role of Athletics truly needs to be for colleges anyway. We have been a long way away from truly amateur Athletics anyway.

Edited August 12, 2021 by DentonLurker

[GrandGreen]

3 hours ago, DentonLurker said:

College sports have been broken for a while. In the top level of football, only a handful of teams have had a shot at a national championship for a long time now. If that’s not broken, I don’t know what is. I’m glad things are getting shaken up. Schools need to do a lot of soul searching to figure out what the role of Athletics truly needs to be for colleges anyway. We have been a long way away from truly amateur Athletics anyway.

By your definition, College sports have just about always been broken.

The courts are doing everything they can to end any real competition. 

I hope all this morphs into something that can sustain college sports.   College Administrators are going to have to get politically and legally involved to save college athletics as we have known them.

These athletes who profit from NIL and the new transfers rules may prosper, but the players who follow may not have those opportunities.  It going to be hard to earn NIL money when there is very limited venues to gain the necessary exposure. 

 

[outoftown]

6 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

These athletes who profit from NIL and the new transfers rules may prosper, but the players who follow may not have those opportunities.  It going to be hard to earn NIL money when there is very limited venues to gain the necessary exposure. 

I believe Grand Green is spot on here, and this is why all of this is short sighted. Not all change is good change.

I plan to enjoy this season, because i think with all the NIL shenanigans it is likely to be the last one that resembles anything like the college football i I love. That is unless congress steps in. The NCAA itself is incapable (and legally with hands tied behind its back) to create a reasonably even playing ground. However my trust that congress is capable of finding a reasonable agreement is limited.

Edited August 13, 2021 by outoftown

[Mean Green Matt]

7 hours ago, outoftown said:

I believe Grand Green is spot on here, and this is why all of this is short sighted. Not all change is good change.

I plan to enjoy this season, because i think with all the NIL shenanigans it is likely to be the last one that resembles anything like the college football i I love. That is unless congress steps in. The NCAA itself is incapable (and legally with hands tied behind its back) to create a reasonably even playing ground. However my trust that congress is capable of finding a reasonable agreement is limited.

At the end of the day it’s just a business like any other. “College sports” will continue trying to maximize its profit unless and until those actions begin to hurt its profit by turning off customers. As I’ve said before the NIL is definitely the right thing to do for the players, but it does destroy what was left of college sports. While some will certainly not like the shift, it’s not as if the structure of college sports is decreed from the Heavens as an absolute. Sometimes things change for better or for worse. 

[outoftown]

30 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

At the end of the day it’s just a business like any other. “College sports” will continue trying to maximize its profit unless and until those actions begin to hurt its profit by turning off customers. As I’ve said before the NIL is definitely the right thing to do for the players, but it does destroy what was left of college sports. While some will certainly not like the shift, it’s not as if the structure of college sports is decreed from the Heavens as an absolute. Sometimes things change for better or for worse. 

I get it. We can all potentially be replaced, even (or maybe especially) the fans.

All i know, is that it is unlikely I would have ever posted more than 20 times on a board I perceive to be primarily about a minor league professional team (as opposed to the more than my over 3800 times on this board). Maybe some folks find good in this change. Some people believe that we always need to embrace change and that it is futile to fight it. On both accounts: I am not one of those folks. Some change is simply bad, and to me this is likely to become one of those times. I am not saying i will never watch a game again, but i doubt my enthusiasm will keep being where it is if this lasts into the season after the present one.

Simply put: if it becomes truely a business like any other, it does not hold much interest to me.

Edited August 13, 2021 by outoftown

[Mean Green Matt]

1 hour ago, outoftown said:

I get it. We can all potentially be replaced, even (or maybe especially) the fans.

All i know, is that it is unlikely I would have ever posted more than 20 times on a board I perceive to be primarily about a minor league professional team (as opposed to the more than my over 3800 times on this board). Maybe some folks find good in this change. Some people believe that we always need to embrace change and that it is futile to fight it. On both accounts: I am not one of those folks. Some change is simply bad, and to me this is likely to become one of those times. I am not saying i will never watch a game again, but i doubt my enthusiasm will keep being where it is if this lasts into the season after the present one.

Simply put: if it becomes truely a business like any other, it does not hold much interest to me.

Oh I’m with you 100%. The old way was only sustainable for so long once everyone was making millions of dollars but the players. 

[outoftown]

10 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Oh I’m with you 100%. The old way was only sustainable for so long once everyone was making millions of dollars but the players. 

Yeah, there I am with you.

Rather than put more money into this system, there needed to be money taken out of the system (I.e. coaches salaries have become ridiculous and some schools making too much without giving back). However CFB self governance dominated by only some of the stakeholders (schools without athletes and primarily the big name schools at that) who had clear biases made this impossible. It does create a fair argument for athletes to feel used by the system. I just feel that while this maybe solve those athletes problems for this generation, but is will create much worse problems than it solves in the long run.

Edited August 13, 2021 by outoftown

[GrandGreen]

30 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Oh I’m with you 100%. The old way was only sustainable for so long once everyone was making millions of dollars but the players. 

One question who makes millions of dollars on NT sports?  Littrell qualifies because he is grossly overpaid, but the implication seems to be that the school itself is raking in money.  

The idea that most college sports programs make money is preposterous. Most are only able to compete because of student fees and tuition being channeled into sports. 

Lets mandate fair pay for those athletes, and see how many programs can survive.  I wonder how those that advocate more money for the individual athletes, feel about high school sports.   Surely, they must be compensated too. 

At some point, it will be athletes who suffer became there are no more opportunities available to play.   

Colleges can certainly survive without sports, many do.    It may be a lot more difficult for athletes to prosper without any place to develop.  I guess, football and other sports can follow the baseball model and have a huge groups of minor league teams that will be mostly ignored. 

 

[BillySee58]

30 minutes ago, outoftown said:

It does create a fair argument for athletes to feel used by the system. I just feel that while this maybe solve those athletes problems for this generation, but is will create much worse problems than it solves in the long run.

I would like to hear the stance that there is a fair argument the other way. This was a 9-0 Supreme Court ruling that the NCAA was violating anti-trust laws. SC Justice Cavanaugh stated

”Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate.”

“The NCAA is not above the law."

”The NCAA’s business model would be flatly illegal in almost any other industry in America."

I think the reality is many people are coming up with all of these doomsday scenarios because they don’t want change and pose these potential pitfalls rather the positive ramifications because they don’t want to paint the change in a good light. There is plenty of that in response to the BYU situation on social media. 

[golfingomez]

8 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

One question who makes millions of dollars on NT sports?  Littrell qualifies because he is grossly overpaid, but the implication seems to be that the school itself is raking in money.  

The idea that most college sports programs make money is preposterous. Most are only able to compete because of student fees and tuition being channeled into sports. 

Lets mandate fair pay for those athletes, and see how many programs can survive.  I wonder how those that advocate more money for the individual athletes, feel about high school sports.   Surely, they must be compensated too. 

At some point, it will be athletes who suffer became there are no more opportunities available to play.   

Colleges can certainly survive without sports, many do.    It may be a lot more difficult for athletes to prosper without any place to develop.  I guess, football and other sports can follow the baseball model and have a huge groups of minor league teams that will be mostly ignored. 

 

I think it will be a HUGE day when an NT player get $50K for a year... so proportionately, it should all level out. Power five players will have a much higher chance to get a power five 'salary'. at the end of the day, if players see everyone from their coaches on up to the universities doing whatever they can to get a few more bucks, why would they be any different?

They see the university (UNT included) spending millions on facilities and coaches ($3MM on them?), and they get a scholarship worth maybe roughly $100K over four years (that goes right back to the university) and they are supposed to feel like they appropriately compensated?

[Mean Green Matt]

25 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

One question who makes millions of dollars on NT sports?  Littrell qualifies because he is grossly overpaid, but the implication seems to be that the school itself is raking in money.  

The idea that most college sports programs make money is preposterous. Most are only able to compete because of student fees and tuition being channeled into sports. 

Lets mandate fair pay for those athletes, and see how many programs can survive.  I wonder how those that advocate more money for the individual athletes, feel about high school sports.   Surely, they must be compensated too. 

At some point, it will be athletes who suffer became there are no more opportunities available to play.   

Colleges can certainly survive without sports, many do.    It may be a lot more difficult for athletes to prosper without any place to develop.  I guess, football and other sports can follow the baseball model and have a huge groups of minor league teams that will be mostly ignored. 

 

Well, I suppose schools are just going to have to decide what they want to be. I’m quite certain Hardin Simmons is going to continue fielding a football team and providing great opportunities for Its athletes despite this NIL stuff. 

The top sports at the top level are inevitably turning semi pro. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that. It just is what it is. 

Now, if the angst is about NT suddenly not being able to compete (not that this was your point specifically), I have some bad news about the last 40 years. 
 

 

[GrandGreen]

28 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Well, I suppose schools are just going to have to decide what they want to be. I’m quite certain Hardin Simmons is going to continue fielding a football team and providing great opportunities for Its athletes despite this NIL stuff. 

The top sports at the top level are inevitably turning semi pro. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that. It just is what it is. 

Now, if the angst is about NT suddenly not being able to compete (not that this was your point specifically), I have some bad news about the last 40 years. 
 

 

You have avoided almost all my post and responded with valid, but irrelevant comments.  

Hardin Simmons is a weird example being they are D3 and don't even offer scholarships.

My point again, is that the vast majority of university athletics do not make money now.   It is definitely not a case of schools deciding what they want to be.   

What in the heck does the last 40 years of NT football have to do with the issue?  

The question raised is whether university athletics outside of the few, that do make money, can survive.   

About 80% of D1 programs are substantially funded by student fees and tuition.  That will probably end soon, why should students, most of which rarely attend any  school athletic event fund players who who are essentially paid pros. 

Why do you think the actual Pro leagues have rules that actually help competition: salary caps, roster limits, location approval, drafts, etc?

The courts have ruled on the side of individuals basically against competition.  That is seen in the new transfer rules as well as the NIL issue. 

Colleges are struggling with these rules and it remains to be determined if a lot of programs can survive. 

[Mean Green Matt]

1 minute ago, GrandGreen said:

You have avoided almost all my post and responded with valid, but irrelevant comments.  

Hardin Simmons is a weird example being they are D3 and don't even offer scholarships.

My point again, is that the vast majority of university athletics do not make money now.   It is definitely not a case of schools deciding what they want to be.   

What in the heck does the last 40 years of NT football have to do with the issue?  

The question raised is whether university athletics outside of the few, that do make money, can survive.   

About 80% of D1 programs are substantially funded by student fees and tuition.  That will probably end soon, why should students, most of which rarely attend any  school athletic event fund players who who are essentially paid pros. 

Why do you think the actual Pro leagues have rules that actually help competition: salary caps, roster limits, location approval, drafts, etc?

The courts have ruled on the side of individuals basically against competition.  That is seen in the new transfer rules as well as the NIL issue. 

Colleges are struggling with these rules and it remains to be determined if a lot of programs can survive. 

So I made the point that all of this started when money got out of hand for everyone but the athletes. 
 

You responded, essentially with “who actually makes money?”. 
 

Which is a fair point. To which my point is schools are going to have to decide which playing field they want to compete on. Is North Texas going to try to go the semi pro route, or will it stick with the traditional college sports route. The sad reality for us and many (which I think is your point) is that we weren’t even remotely competitive before any of this NIL stuff started (which is why I mentioned our history).  

Perhaps I misinterpreted your point about opportunities for athletes, but those are going to be there no matter what because the lower tier of college sports is going to stay intact just like it is now. Hello Hardin Simmons Cowboys! Probably with some new additions!

[outoftown]

2 hours ago, Mean Green Matt said:

 To which my point is schools are going to have to decide which playing field they want to compete on.

I don't see how that choice will even exist at any mid-level anymore, as schools like NT can essentially not play with peers who play by the same rules anymore and trust that they will stick to those rules. That is because the courts have essentially made it illegal for schools to have rules that ascertain they are all on a level playing field (or at least not a completely tilted one) in terms of their financial investment. Players unions could potentially improve that similar to pro leagues, but again that only works for pros and semi-pros, so again no choice. If this were a business where customers just go elsewhere if service is no good or prize is too high, that all would make sense. Here it does not, because folks are fans/alumni, not customers.

Now I don't overly blame the courts. The case was apparently clear and they have to rule by the laws. Responsible are those the laws, or rather the people in charge of making them (i.e. congress), who have failed to step in for whatever reason, not just this year, but for decades actually.

Edited August 13, 2021 by outoftown

[Mean Green 93-98]

Quinn Ewers, a freshman backup who has yet to take a snap, has just signed a $1.4 million NIL deal.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ohio-state-freshman-qb-quinn-ewers-signs-1-4-million-nil-deal-with-autograph-vendor-per-reports/

I have to wonder what that does psychologically to a 17-year-old kid--is his focus really on giving his best and doing all he can to help his team win?

And what about the other players?  There are at least 2 QBs ahead of him on the depth chart, and none of them has a comparable deal.  I could easily see it being a bone of contention.

 

[Mean Green 93-98]

I'm not sure if this is posted elsewhere, but a high school senior has signed an $8 million NIL deal.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/03/12/five-star-recruit-signed-nil-deal-8-million

If this doesn't qualify as "out of hand," I don't know what does.

[El Paso Eagle]

29 minutes ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I'm not sure if this is posted elsewhere, but a high school senior has signed an $8 million NIL deal.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/03/12/five-star-recruit-signed-nil-deal-8-million

If this doesn't qualify as "out of hand," I don't know what does.

Who saw this coming?

[El Paso Eagle]

1 hour ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I'm not sure if this is posted elsewhere, but a high school senior has signed an $8 million NIL deal.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/03/12/five-star-recruit-signed-nil-deal-8-million

If this doesn't qualify as "out of hand," I don't know what does.

Is this Manning? If not, wonder what in the hell he might get? How quickly it went from having the ability to make money, to pay-to-play

[Mean Green 93-98]

1 hour ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Is this Manning? 

Arch Manning is still a junior.  And surely it's someone who has committed somewhere.  All part of the new recruiting game.

[bstnsportsfan3]

3 hours ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I'm not sure if this is posted elsewhere, but a high school senior has signed an $8 million NIL deal.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/03/12/five-star-recruit-signed-nil-deal-8-million

If this doesn't qualify as "out of hand," I don't know what does.

Me trying to help North Texas...