Darrell Dickey update

[GrandGreen]

On 6/22/2021 at 3:10 PM, greenminer said:

Any animosity DD made public (black jerseys being the big one) was IMO towards RV, and not the fans or our program.

Having said that, some fans took it personally anyways and wish he never comes back.

I liked the guy. If the opportunity was there to rebuild whatever bridges necessary, I'd be okay with it.

Final thought: there are plenty of coaches out there.  This is about as likely as a gorilla with a pen accidentally writing Shakespeare's Hamlet.

DD's black jerseys and other acts like publicly denouncing NT were due to his immaturity and overall lack of any diplomacy.  RV hung on to him years after he would have been terminated at other places. 

As far as liking him, he had that very typical "good ole boy" down and on an one to one basis, could be very engaging. 

His recruiting which worked for the early years was to wait till the big boys chose most of their players and than make a move on the best ones left.  Most others in G5 signed classes much earlier and missed out those players that came available late in the process.  Other lower tier teams eventually learned this strategy and DD's recruiting ability plummeted. 

I believe LIttrell can rebound this year, but if he does not there will be a lot of coaches available.  NT has the location, budget, athletic infrastructure, AD and President to become a perennial G5 power.   CUSA is a liability compared to the AAC, and hurts in recruiting.   All NT can do to remedy that, is to dominate the conference and be ready for any opportunity that may arrive. 

[Cr1028]

A topic from 2 days after “the streak” had ended. Even then some folks knew Dickey’s accomplishments weren’t as impressive as others would have you believe.

[peanuts104]

On 6/22/2021 at 12:04 PM, DeepGreen said:

Who on this board would take Dickey back as our head coach should Seth fail this season?  I would.  Dickey would have the facilities and the backing at UNT.

In a heartbeat..

[bstnsportsfan3]

It must be the off-season to have 3 pages of a would we hire Dickey thread 🤣

[meanrob]

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

 RV hung on to him years after he would have been terminated at other places. 

This is the funniest goddamn thing I’ve ever read on this board. 

[untjim1995]

11 minutes ago, meanrob said:

This is the funniest goddamn thing I’ve ever read on this board. 

Yeah, the irony here is off the charts...

[El Paso Eagle]

Just wondering for those who would want him back - What do you know that it seems no other FBS schools do?

[meangreen11]

4 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Just wondering for those who would want him back - What do you know that it seems no other FBS schools do?

He’s at a pretty high level program right now. Not the HC but 2nd in command.  He’s done as well or better than any other NT coach I can recall recently.

[El Paso Eagle]

Just now, meangreen11 said:

He’s at a pretty high level program right now. Not the HC but 2nd in command.  He’s done as well or better than any other NT coach I can recall recently.

How do you get he's number 2 in command. That is clearly Mike Elko and that is not even close. I know it pisses off many here but the Belt at the time was considered perhaps the worst conference in the the History of College D1 Football - The majority of FCS/IAA conferences were ranked ahead of the belt. For those who complain about the level of competition in CUSA, this conference is in a complete different level compared to the Belt at that time.

DD winning % was .396. That is below

• Hayden Fry       .629
• Jerry Moore      .500
• Corky Nelson    .480
• Matt Simon        .411
• Dan McCarney  .407
• Seth Littrell       .509

 

 

[Coffee and TV]

I was at the Golden Triangle Mall back in the day and the players all came in through an entrance to the Country Buffet the night before a game. As I left the mall Dickey just gave me a cold stare while he dragged a cig. I was a critic of his sure, but I was never quite sure if he was mistaking me for someone else or if that was just his RBF. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Coffee and TV

[97and03]

9 hours ago, meanrob said:

This is the funniest goddamn thing I’ve ever read on this board. 

Not to speak for the OP, but don’t forget what DD’s record was before the streak. His best season was 3-8 in three years and then he lost the first 5 games of 2001. That’s 8-30 in three and a half seasons. So yes, anywhere else he probably would have been fired. And if I recall correctly, Rick was going to fire him but then he beat the MUTS and saved his job temporarily. Then the streak happened (although Troy did also beat us later that season but they were still a transition team and not yet conference mates). 

From the 2005 thread posted above:

1998: 3-8

1999: 2-9

2000: 3-8

That works out to a 24% winning percentage!!!

 

 

[outoftown]

On 6/22/2021 at 6:35 PM, meangreen11 said:

read more:  https://www.rockmnation.com/2021/6/22/22543003/2021-football-opponent-previews-texas-a-m-aggies

That picture though. He looks like Hank Schrader on breaking bad. Does anyone know if he is hunting narcos these days?

Edited June 25, 2021 by outoftown

[bstnsportsfan3]

6 hours ago, outoftown said:

That picture though. He looks like Hank Schrader on breaking bad. Does anyone know if he is hunting narcos these days?

Kinda looks like he is holding in a fart… 

[emmitt01]

15 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Not to speak for the OP, but don’t forget what DD’s record was before the streak. His best season was 3-8 in three years and then he lost the first 5 games of 2001. That’s 8-30 in three and a half seasons. So yes, anywhere else he probably would have been fired. And if I recall correctly, Rick was going to fire him but then he beat the MUTS and saved his job temporarily. Then the streak happened (although Troy did also beat us later that season but they were still a transition team and not yet conference mates). 

From the 2005 thread posted above:

 

1998: 3-8

1999: 2-9

2000: 3-8

That works out to a 24% winning percentage!!!

 

 

We love to talk about DD's records here, but conveniently forget who were playing.  Take a look at those same years you cite (1998-2000) and tell me which coach we've hired since that could have pulled out a winning record (while recruiting to Fouts Field). 

1998 - https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/north-texas/1998-schedule.html

1999- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_North_Texas_Mean_Green_football_team

2000 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_North_Texas_Mean_Green_football_team

[meanrob]

The ironic thing about all of this is in 2000 I was fed up with Dickey. Didn’t think there was any chance he could turn it around. Before the MTSU game in 2001 we were talking to Blue Raider fans about how they were going to kill us. 
 

But looking back now and how the facilities were shit (the practice field was just an open grass field) and how good/fun that run was, I can at least give Dickey his due. One of his assistants made less than me and I was a paper pusher at JCPenney. Now we have the highest paid coach in our conference, amazing stadium, and all the other things we never had and we get four wins in the worst conference in FBS. 
 

I totally get the bad taste he left in everyone’s mouth. I totally get why he was fired. I get if you weren’t there it’s kinda hard to understand. But throwing up the win percentage and pretending he was a worse coach than Mac or Simon?!?! is just pushing a lazy narrative. And saying we had more resources than the teams we were beating is just wrong. I went to a lot of the road games. Our facilities were at the bottom if not the bottom  

 

[meanrob]

Even though we’re beating dead horses, I actually like the DD debate because there’s some valid points against him and it’s interesting to read some of them. 
 

But the RV issue, yeah, you’re not changing my mind. Maybe one day Harry will let his guard down and tell a story or two 🤐

[TheColonyEagle]

On 6/23/2021 at 1:32 PM, SilverEagle said:

I thought he had a pretty funny sense of humor..... Funnier that SL.

100% agree.

And for those that weren't here during that run....go back and reread what Harry said about recruiting. Can you imagine bringing a recruit to campus and AVOIDING your stadium. That's how bad it was. Ask visiting teams about our visitors locker room (Baylor). I remember sitting in ULa Monroe's stadium thinking "you know.....this isn't that bad."

If we're handicapping the coaches in our history based on results within their constraints....Darryl Dickey is beyond HOF worthy.

[97and03]

2 hours ago, emmitt01 said:

We love to talk about DD's records here, but conveniently forget who were playing.  Take a look at those same years you cite (1998-2000) and tell me which coach we've hired since that could have pulled out a winning record (while recruiting to Fouts Field). 

1998 - https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/north-texas/1998-schedule.html

1999- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_North_Texas_Mean_Green_football_team

2000 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_North_Texas_Mean_Green_football_team

I don’t know who would have done better. Did we care so much about athletics? Not really. This is acknowledging that we played a lot of OOC games those years and many were big names. But for shits and giggles…

1998 only 3 of 8 loses were to winning teams. We did beat a 6 win Nevada in conference. Most points scored 27 (twice). 

1999 bizarre year, right? Beat Tech and Boise St - both with winning records - but lost the other 9 games. Yes one was LSU who only won three games and completed less than 50 percent of its passes against us but still beat us 52-0. Baylor won only one game that year (against UNT). Most points scored 28 (in a loss).

2000 we finally got smart and schedule a win and scored 41 against Samford. Also beat a 1 win LaLa and 3 win NMSU. Only 4 losses were to losing teams so this was a stronger schedule. 
 

So then 2001 was the streak but we lost the first 5 - admittedly 3 were really good teams. But we also lost to start up USF and 2 win ULM. Later lost to transition Troy St.

Again, thankful for the streak and I don’t so much blame DD (or RV) for the lack of overall support at that time but arguing that he is some kind of phenomenon or something is a bit much. He didn’t lose to the elites of the college football world those years. Yes LSU and Baylor are in good conferences but they were shitty teams then. And we lost to start ups and plenty of Big West losing teams during that time. I don’t think anyone is unhappy he won what he did, but think it is fair to point out the system he ran was designed to not lose against inferior opponents. And even that took almost four years to work. 
Thank you DD for the wins during those four years and wish you had done better the other five years so we could hold you in greater esteem overall. 
 

Edited June 25, 2021 by 97and03

[UNTLifer]

2 hours ago, meanrob said:

Maybe one day Harry will let his guard down and tell a story or two 🤐

[meanrob]

25 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

I don’t know who would have done better. Did we care so much about athletics? Not really. This is acknowledging that we played a lot of OOC games those years and many were big names. But for shits and giggles…

1998 only 3 of 8 loses were to winning teams. We did beat a 6 win Nevada in conference. Most points scored 27 (twice). 

1999 bizarre year, right? Beat Tech and Boise St - both with winning records - but lost the other 9 games. Yes one was LSU who only won three games and completed less than 50 percent of its passes against us but still beat us 52-0. Baylor won only one game that year (against UNT). Most points scored 28 (in a loss).

2000 we finally got smart and schedule a win and scored 41 against Samford. Also beat a 1 win LaLa and 3 win NMSU. Only 4 losses were to losing teams so this was a stronger schedule. 
 

So then 2001 was the streak but we lost the first 5 - admittedly 3 were really good teams. But we also lost to start up USF and 2 win ULM. Later lost to transition Troy St.

Again, thankful for the streak and I don’t so much blame DD (or RV) for the lack of overall support at that time but arguing that he is some kind of phenomenon or something is a bit much. He didn’t lose to the elites of the college football world those years. Yes LSU and Baylor are in good conferences but they were shitty teams then. And we lost to start ups and plenty of Big West losing teams during that time. I don’t think anyone is unhappy he won what he did, but think it is fair to point out the system he ran was designed to not lose against inferior opponents. And even that took almost four years to work. 
Thank you DD for the wins during those four years and wish you had done better the other five years so we could hold you in greater esteem overall. 
 

Was at the LSU game. An LSU fan could see I was steaming and said “We’re supposed to beat you guys like this.”  I said back “Your team isn’t very good, I bet you win three games this year, that’s why I’m pissed.”  
 

One of the few predictions I got right. 
 

His system was definitely designed to beat teams he had better talent than. The criticism that he wasn’t aggressive enough is valid. And frustrating to watch.

[meanrob]

3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Unfortunately, probably true. 

[UNTLifer]

Just now, meanrob said:

Was at the LSU game. An LSU fan could see I was steaming and said “We’re supposed to beat you guys like this.”  I said back “Your team isn’t very good, I bet you win three games this year, that’s why I’m pissed.”  
 

One of the few predictions I got right. 
 

His system was definitely designed to beat teams he had better talent than. The criticism that he wasn’t aggressive enough is valid. And frustrating to watch.

This was the most maddening part of the DD years. He didn't even try to beat some of these teams.  His game plan was no injuries, collect the check and hope the bus doesn't break down on our way home.  We had the teams to beat a few.

[emmitt01]

39 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

I don’t know who would have done better. Did we care so much about athletics? Not really. This is acknowledging that we played a lot of OOC games those years and many were big names. But for shits and giggles…

1998 only 3 of 8 loses were to winning teams. We did beat a 6 win Nevada in conference. Most points scored 27 (twice). 

1999 bizarre year, right? Beat Tech and Boise St - both with winning records - but lost the other 9 games. Yes one was LSU who only won three games and completed less than 50 percent of its passes against us but still beat us 52-0. Baylor won only one game that year (against UNT). Most points scored 28 (in a loss).

2000 we finally got smart and schedule a win and scored 41 against Samford. Also beat a 1 win LaLa and 3 win NMSU. Only 4 losses were to losing teams so this was a stronger schedule. 
 

So then 2001 was the streak but we lost the first 5 - admittedly 3 were really good teams. But we also lost to start up USF and 2 win ULM. Later lost to transition Troy St.

Again, thankful for the streak and I don’t so much blame DD (or RV) for the lack of overall support at that time but arguing that he is some kind of phenomenon or something is a bit much. He didn’t lose to the elites of the college football world those years. Yes LSU and Baylor are in good conferences but they were shitty teams then. And we lost to start ups and plenty of Big West losing teams during that time. I don’t think anyone is unhappy he won what he did, but think it is fair to point out the system he ran was designed to not lose against inferior opponents. And even that took almost four years to work. 
Thank you DD for the wins during those four years and wish you had done better the other five years so we could hold you in greater esteem overall. 
 

The bolded part keeps being thrown around, but without telling the whole story. 

The "start up" USF 2001 team went 8-3.  We share the shame of losing to them with Pitt (7-4 that year), Houston, Connecticut and Utah State. 

The "transitional" Troy team was 7-4.  Others who should hand their heads in shame from that year include ULM and Mississippi State.

The number of teams we lost to in 2001 who had a losing record?  One...ULM. 

Nobody has ever said DD belongs on the Mount Rushmore of coaching...but if you're gonna judge him in light of what he had to work with, and look at the whole picture regarding his losses, he certainly isn't worthy of being relegated to mediocrity by revisionist history either. 

[greenminer]

2 hours ago, meanrob said:

The ironic thing about all of this is in 2000 I was fed up with Dickey. Didn’t think there was any chance he could turn it around. Before the MTSU game in 2001 we were talking to Blue Raider fans about how they were going to kill us. 

I remember going into that game expecting to get mopped off the field.

That Blue Raider offense was 7-0 (maybes 6-0) averaging something like 7+ yards PER SNAP.  They had a TE who was nearly 6'10".

[UNTLifer]

6 minutes ago, greenminer said:

I remember going into that game expecting to get mopped off the field.

That Blue Raider offense was 7-0 (maybes 6-0) averaging something like 7+ yards PER SNAP.  They had a TE who was nearly 6'10".

This dude didn't like getting hit.  Our defense wore him out.  I dream of having another defense like that.