Lakers Lose! Lakers Lose!

UNTLifer · June 16, 2004

The only thing better than watching the Lakers lose the NBA title is watching the Yankees lose the World Series.

June 16, 2004

No, I think this Lakers team losing is even better than the Yankees losing. Karl Malone failing again to win the NBA championship is as good as it gets.

Zeke · June 16, 2004

I can't explain how happy I was watching them fall.

The NBA is still the WWE, but it's good to see a team like that topple.

Ohh, and I love the lose/loose comment. That irks me more than anything else on this board. I have to hold back from telling one certain poster over and over how to spell "lose"

Edited June 16, 2004 by Zeke

Rudy · June 16, 2004

Hey, Court, be careful out in LA tonight. Watch out for the mass looting and hysteria.

Seriously though, I have to give the Pisstons players props. They are at the begining of their 15 minutes of fame, yet on the stage to accept the championship trophy, they still remembered to bring up every member of their posse

Thats just so great to see <_<

CMJ · June 16, 2004

Eh, Los Angeles took it pretty well. I think the city was expecting it after Game 4. I'm terribly pleased that I didn't have to hear folks celebrating in the streets like I did two years ago.

Oh, and as much as I hate the Lakers, this is still nothing compared to watching the Yanks fall.

Greenblood94 · June 16, 2004

The continued arrogance of Phil Jackson never ceases to amaze me. During his post-game press conference last night, he actually had the gall to say that he felt HIS team was a Cinderella story this season...hey, Phil, if you'd actually read "Cinderella" growing up, instead of "Zen and the Art of Basketball Coaching and Referee Baiting", you would know that the Pistons (the ones that outplayed, out-hustled and basically trampled your overpaid, overhyped group of crybabies) were the Cinderella story.

The only regret I had watching the Pistons school your team in the subjects of teamwork and unselfishness is that my Spurs couldn't have done the same thing for four games (instead of just two) two playoff rounds ago. Do the league a favor...take your nine rings (at least six of which came from teams my mother could have "coached" to an NBA title) and your "we didn't lose, the refs just jobbed us" attitude, reintroduce yourself to your family, and disappear from radar for awhile. You can re-surface when they induct you in the Basketball Hall of Fame in a couple of years. Oh, and I have detailed instructions of what you can do with the "asterisk" you say the Spurs should have on their 1999 title, but I'll forward those to you at a later time.

(Stepping down off my soap box) Okay, that felt good to get off my chest...by the way, some NBA trivia for you...name the only two players who have won NBA MVP awards (for the season, not The Finals), but have never won an NBA Championship. One should be fairly easy...

Edited June 16, 2004 by Greenblood94

PerryG2480 · June 16, 2004

Wow, that was a fun series to watch...I never thought I would have said that. The Pistons did it without any "superstars," and they did it with good defense, hustle, not settling for jump shots, and heart (I hope Mark Cuban watched every second of this series <_< ).

There was a lot of talk on the sports radio stations this morning about O'Neal mentioning that he'd consider Orlando, Atlanta, and Dallas as places he'd like to play. It's obvious that Kobe and Shaq aren't extremely happy in LA, and if Jackson retires that could seal it. IF there is a chance that the Mavs could get Kobe or Shaq here in exchange for Dirk, Antoine Walker, and some filler....you'd have to at least consider it.

I'm a huge Dirk fan, but he's not a top 5 player...and he doesn't really play at both ends of the floor. While I'm dreaming...if Steve Nash could toughen up and become a little bit more like Billups, I'd be happy. If Finley could consistently play at the level of a Rip Hamilton, that'd be good. If Josh Howard could turn into a Tayshaun Prince, I'd be ecstatic. And if we could get someone in here to play with the tenacity of a Ben Wallace, we'd be championship bound. Like I said, I'm dreaming.

June 16, 2004

Perry, I'm not trying to put you down or anything, but you don't know a whole lot about basketball.

GreenBrigadeDebbie · June 16, 2004

I am so happy that the Lakers lost!! Now, the only thing that will top this is that the Yankees either do not make it to the World Series or loses in the World Series. There is no 2 teams (all sports included) that I dislike more than the Yankees and Lakers.

Rudy · June 16, 2004

Well even if Kobe doesn't go to prison, personally I still wouldn't want that classless pompus on my team, I would consider bringing Shap in, but not for Dirk, or not even for Nash, despite how much I dislike him.

To be honest, I still could care less. Im ready for football and hockey season.

PerryG2480 · June 16, 2004

Perry, I'm not trying to put you down or anything, but you don't know a whole lot about basketball.

Enlighten me then, E-bone. I was reiterating almost word for word what I heard Newy talking about on the Goodfellas this morning. Why not talk about it? It's interesting conversation, even if it has a very slim chance of ever happening. What about it exactly didn't make sense?

Not that I need to prove anything to you, but it would be a safe to say that I know plenty about a sport I've been following fanatically since I was 5.

Oh, and the second half of your sentence contradicts the first. No offense of course. And what's with the negative overtones on all of your posts? Just wondering.

Cerebus · June 16, 2004

And what's with the negative overtones on all of your posts? Just wondering.

I'de like to know myself

Zeke · June 16, 2004

Okay, that felt good to get off my chest...by the way, some NBA trivia for you...name the only two players who have won NBA MVP awards (for the season, not The Finals), but have never won an NBA Championship. One should be fairly easy...

Barkley and ????? (no clue)

Malone??

Edited June 16, 2004 by Zeke

UNT_92_Fan · June 16, 2004

And what's with the negative overtones on all of your posts? Just wondering.

Glad someone finally asked.....

Anyways.... After watching what some call bad basketball in the Eastern Conf. Finals....I thought the Pistons had a damn good shot to take down the NBA's evil empire..... My favorite thing about the entire series was after either game 3 or 4 Sportscenter was spotlighting the defense that was being played on Kobe.... I loved seeing that guy just completely defeated that nobody could get him the ball... My only complaint about the whole thing is that rasheed got a championship.... i haven't liked that guy since his "humble" beginnings....

Perry's post about Shaq and Kobe is interesting... i hear New-dawg talking about all that on the Goodfellas as well... And IMHO if the Mavs were to go after it and the trade or whatever involved Dirk i would be completely pissed... Everyone made a stink about how he didn't improve his game this year and questioned if last season was as good as he gets...the guy came into the year on a damn near broken foot and he favored his gimpy ankle all season... I am one HUGE Dirk fan so i will claim some bais towards the subject... Dirk's knee high ankle wraps he had by the end of the season were ridiculous!

Lakers will dismantle....I believe Kobe is gone one way or the other.... Free Agency or in Galloway's terms "off to the big house with big luther".....As far as Phil Jackson.... I agree with Greenblood on this one....its time to pack it up and head out....you were HANDED teams that were amazing and could have won championships with whoever coached them.... Someone can throw hte Del Harris crap at me but whatever.... Phil Jackson is a good coach but i want to see him take the Clippers or any of the cellar dwellers and win some championships.... Larry Brown just took a bunch of decent players and made household names out of them by playing defense (not saying i enjoy watching their games at all) and stopping the ball. Not to take credit from the guys on that team but there were few...very few....household names on that team....

One final thing...did anyone lsiten to the game on ESPN radio and hear the Reference to Darko Milicic....the Human Victory Cigar..... that definitely brought a laugh outta me while i was pissed that i was forced to work during the game....

already looking to Oct/Nov for the start of next season....should be interesting

PerryG2480 · June 17, 2004

One more thing...They showed Karl Malone sitting on the bench in the final game as Darko entered the game. You could almost read his mind:

"THAT guy has an NBA title."

June 17, 2004

Enlighten me then, E-bone.

Alright. There are only a few people in the league that Dirk should even be considered to be traded for, and Kobe and Shaq are not two of them. For Kobe, we don't know if he is going to spend the next 20 years in jail or not, so trading for him would be foolish. For Shaq, we don't know how long he is going to keep playing. This post season proved that Shaq is not near as dominant as he used to be, and that will only become more and more apparent as he gets older.

For the rest of the "if so-and-so would be more like what's-his-face", is really kind of pointless and not well thought out. Steve Nash is Steve Nash and he is going to continue to play like Steve Nash. Nash is more like Richard Hamilton in that he is always on the move, except instead of shooting he is passing and running the offense. You'll notice that Richard Hamilton usually gets an easy defensive assignment because he expends so much energy on offense. Nash is the same way except he has to guard the other team's PG because the Mavs don't have a defensive stopper(I'm hoping that Josh Howard or Marquis Daniels will turn out to be one though).

Michael Finley and Richard Hamilton play completely differnet styles of basketball. Richard Hamilton is moving non stop, cutting to the basket, and trying to get open. He is a good ball handler and is very quick. Michael Finley used to be a slasher and scorer, but has stepped back his role for Dirk. Now he just shoots a lot of perimeter shots and doesn't drive to the basket much, which he should. He is not a good ball handler and at 31 has lost his legs, so is not as quick as he used to be when he was the Mavs' only real basketball player. You can't just say Michael Finley should play like Richard Hamilton, because he doesn't have the legs for it anymore and he doesn't handle the ball well enough to be able to. Michael Finley has been my favorite NBA player for a long time, but even I realize that he just isn't what he used to be.

As for Josh Howard, I'm really looking forward to see him become his own player and create his own style. By you wanting him to be like Tayshaun Price I don't really know what you mean other than having him grow 2 inches and having his wingspan increase by 6-8 inches. Prince is really off and on offensively, and while he is very long he gets knocked around a lot for being so slender. I think Josh Howard is going to be a much tougher player than Prince because he has a more physical mentality, which is something the Mavericks really need.

For wanting to get someone like Ben Wallace, all I have to say is that every team in the league other than the Pistons want a guy like Ben Wallace. Great defenders are very rare nowadays so it is one thing to say we need someone like him, but it is another to actually get one. There just aren't enough good big men to go around, so it is pointless to say we need to go get a good big man to compete with the Tim Duncans and Shaqs, because other than those two, Wallace, and Garnett, there aren't any.

The Pistons and Mavericks are teams with completely different styles of play, and both teams have players that make their style of play work. The Mavs aren't going to magically become a defensive oriented team, and that is something I am happy about. Watching the Pistons and most Eastern Conference teams play is a chore and I will probably stop watching the Mavs if they start playing 82-76 games. What I find ironic is that people admit that watching a team like the Pistons is almost unbearable, but then go on to say the Mavs should play like the Pistons. I'm just happy that the Mavs are one of the few teams in the league that can hit a wide open jump shot and play an exciting game of basketball. Give me a team that can shoot the basketball over a team that just rides offensive players until the turn the ball over any day. That is one reason why I'm don't like the NBA anymore, because it is not real basketball anymore. Players can't shoot, there are offensive and defensive fouls on every posession that aren't called, players take 4+ steps when driving, and everyone carries the basketball. That is why I love the Mavs, they are as close to real basketball as there is in the NBA. The Mavs and Tim Duncan are about all I can stand to watch anymore.

I didn't mean to offend you and I should probably not have said what I said, so I'm sorry if you were offended. I just get so tired of people saying things like that without thinking about it to see if it is actually even a remote possibility.

Edited June 17, 2004 by e-bone

June 17, 2004

I'de like to know myself

Well, I speak my mind and I guess that some people don't like that.

BTW, what all have I said that has been negative? The WAC arguments?

PerryG2480 · June 17, 2004

Cool enough.

However, if the Shaq and Kobe points weren't even remote possibilities then why did the Goodfellas spend a good half hour on it this morning? Because it's fun to think about. I almost got tired of it, switched to the Ticket, and they were talking about it there too.

I'm a huge Dirk fan, shoot, I'm a huge Mavs fan...have been for a long time. But I would rather see them play championship basketball than watch them be an offensive juggernaut any day. I think Dirk is a top 10 player in the NBA...maybe. If he weren't so one sided I might feel differently. Kobe Bryant IS a top 5 player in the NBA. And Shaq is still capable of putting up 36 points and 20 rebounds. Ask any NBA expert if Shaq is no longer dominant in a league that lacks true centers. I'm not saying it's something that will happen, as it most likely will not. But in my opinion, you'd have to at least consider it. What makes you think the Mavs are going to advance any further with the lineup the way it is currently? As for them playing real basketball, I must have been spoiled by the Jordan years. Those Bulls teams weren't shooting the ball lights out. They played solid defense. Having the best player ever helped a lot too.

I don't want to ramble too much, but I think the personality of the Mavericks needs to change. If you're happy going to the first or second round of the playoffs and getting knocked out every year, then fine.

As for my comparison of the players, I wasn't going for the literal comparisons there. I was simply making a point that I wish the Mavs would toughen up a lot. I know Finley is no Hamilton, and I know they play totally different styles. The fact of the matter is, they both get a lot of open jumpshots, one way or another. I know Nash plays a different style than Billups, and that's fine. But I don't remember seeing Nash take Kobe Bryant off the dribble and blow by him too many times either. Josh Howard could play a lot like Tayshaun Prince when it comes to hustle plays...he already shows signs. He doesn't need to be a huge offensive threat. How many times did you see Prince run down a loose ball...that doesn't have anything to do with being an inch or two taller. I know Ben Wallace is a rare find, but his tenacity, heart, and effort aren't even close to being matched by anyone on the Mavs right now.

I guess a lot of my frustration stems from Don Nelson. I mean, how much of the Pistons' success was brought on by coaching? I don't remember hearing much about Ben Wallace before he came to the Pistons. He played for Rick Carlisle and Larry Brown, a couple of very defensively minded coaches. I think if we could get a coach like that in here, some of our more athletic players could become defensive stoppers (Howard, Daniels, like you mentioned). It's obvious we need a post presence...still. I don't know, bring in anyone...Ratliff, Dampier, I don't care. Push DEFENSE on them, not jumpshots.

Sorry for the rant, but I feel that some major restructuring needs to be done when it comes to the Mavs. I know a lot of people have fallen in love with the eye-pleasing basketball...but I want to win championships, and I think when it comes down to it...so does Mark Cuban.

June 17, 2004

It may be fun to talk about, but I seriously doubt Mark Cuban has ever considered trading Dirk.

I think the Mavs can play championship basketball, they were very close last season after making the WCF.

I didn't say Shaq was no longer dominant, I said he isn't as dominant as he used to be and that will only be the case more and more as he gets older.

The Bulls could make wide open shots, which is more than most teams in todays NBA can say. They got to shoot a lot of wide open shots because of the double and triple teams that Jordan drew.

I'm not happy with the Mavs not getting far into the playoffs, but trading Dirk for Shaq who has maybe 2 years left in him. I'll also make a bet with anyone that Shaq misses significant time in each season that he plays from here on out as well. My point is you just can't count on him to be there anymore, and it is foolish to trade your one 26 year old superstar for Shaq. And you can't trade Dirk for Kobe not knowing whether or not he will even play for you. If the Mavs can sign him as a free agent with a clause saying that if he goes to jail the contract is void, then GREAT! Do it! But you can't give Dirk up, you just can't do it.

I like the idea of getting Ratlif, as long as the Mavs don't have to give up too much to get him. Just someone to make people think twice about going to the hole and someone who doesn't need many shots to be happy.

Walker is gone and Nash is gone unless he will take less money to stay a Mav. While Michael Finley has been my favorite player for a long time, I am not opposed to trading him if the Mavs can get something worthwhile in return. Dirk has to be untouchable and I want Jamison to stay as he is a good post player, which is something the Mavs need. I'm hoping the Mavs can get a sign and trade with Nash to Indiana for Al Harrington and maybe Jamaal Tinsley if the Pacers want an upgrade at PG. With Walker being unprotected for the expansion draft we may not get anything for him, either. The Mavs wouldn't have much to trade if both Nash just signs with another team and if Walker is drafted by the Bobcats.

June 17, 2004

Glad someone finally asked.....

If you had a problem with me you could said something yourself instead of just jumping on the dogpile when the opportunity arose.

Safety in numbers

Texas Stranger · June 17, 2004

by the way, some NBA trivia for you...name the only two players who have won NBA MVP awards (for the season, not The Finals), but have never won an NBA Championship. One should be fairly easy...

Would that be Malone and Garnett ?

Zeke · June 17, 2004

Garnett......of course.

It must be Garnett and Barkley then. Barkley in '93 and Garnett this season.

PerryG2480 · June 17, 2004

I agree with most of your points...and a couple we'll just have to agree to disagree, which is perfectly alright.

I guess I just don't see Dirk as a superstar that can "lead" a team to a championship. That is yet to be proven though, I know. But without some help on the defensive side, mainly in the post, I don't see the current Mavs getting any farther unless Shaq, Tim, KG, and Webber all go down with injuries.

I do like your idea about the trade with the Pacers though.

Cerebus · June 17, 2004

Well, I speak my mind and I guess that some people don't like that.
BTW, what all have I said that has been negative? The WAC arguments?

Perry, I'm not trying to put you down or anything, but you don't know a whole lot about basketball.

Gee, I wonder.

I expect civil discussion.

June 17, 2004

Gee, I wonder.
I expect civil discussion.

That's one of my posts. I didn't intend for it to be negative and I have already apologized for that one post. Since you are an admin and obviously not pleased with my negativity, I ask again, how do all my posts have negative overtones?