Please, FDA. Save Us From Ourselves

[LongJim]

Which is it?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-poised-ban-menthol-cigarettes-week-experts-predict-n1265209

https://reason.com/2021/04/26/a-ban-on-menthol-cigarettes-will-lead-to-more-confrontations-between-black-people-and-police/

[Censored by Laurie]

I'm taking this as @LongJim's advocacy for the legalization of all substances. thank you. 

[LongJim]

15 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I'm taking this as @LongJim's advocacy for the legalization of all substances. thank you. 

No.  I was simply amused by the tack of the two articles.  One suggests the ban benefits the health of minority folks (whether they want or like it or not, of course).  The other that the result of the ban will be increased hassle of minorities, and that the ban is essentially discriminatory.

[Cr1028]

41 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I'm taking this as @LongJim's advocacy for the legalization of all substances. thank you. 

Ron Paul style. I like it.

 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

You read the second article wrong - I think. It is saying that the ban isn't discriminatory, but it's enforcement may lead to more ill interactions with police. 

It's like the ban on things hanging from mirrors in cars. Sure, keeping things out of line of sight while driving is a good thing. But it gives the police another reason to selectively stop a portion of the population that does need to have air fresheners and infant-sized-Jordans hanging down from the mirror. Just like we saw with Daunte Wright. That mirror law allowed for a legal stop that then led to discriminatory enforcement.  

That is just how I read it though. Can't stop making laws because you can't trust the police to not use it correctly - or can you? 

[LongJim]

54 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

You read the second article wrong - I think. It is saying that the ban isn't discriminatory, but it's enforcement may lead to more ill interactions with police.

I agree that it's not intentionally discriminatory.  However the unintended consequences suggested in the article are worth considering:

"Banning menthol is now pitched as a social justice issue, but if we take the stated preferences of menthol smokers seriously, the racial politics cut the other way. White smokers would remain free to purchase the unflavored cigarettes that most of them currently consume, while black smokers would be paternalistically forbidden from exercising their own desires and subjected to policing of illicit markets if they try to fulfill them.

"I'd be livid," ex-smoker Deron Snyder wrote for The Root in 2010, " [If I] discovered that my Salems were forbidden while those disgusting Marlboros were still on sale….Why would the government ban the cigarettes that I prefer, while the estimated 78 percent of non-Latino, white smokers who prefer non-mentholated cigarettes are allowed to keep on puffing?"

[LongJim]

2 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I'm taking this as @LongJim's advocacy for the legalization of all substances. thank you. 

Functional adults are entitled to bodily autonomy, in my opinion.  I may not agree with decisions made by them as to how they use this autonomy.  But long may they wave.

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

Just like we saw with Daunte Wright. That mirror law allowed for a legal stop that then led to discriminatory enforcement.  
 

Didn't he fight with officers and resist arrest?

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

15 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Didn't he fight with officers and resist arrest?

Yep. But this is where we fall to see eye to eye.. i was only speaking about the reason to stop and search. The air freshener on the mirror allowed that.. then all else followed. 

You'd never get pulled over for the same infraction. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

Yep. But this is where we fall to see eye to eye.. i was only speaking about the reason to stop and search. The air freshener on the mirror allowed that.. then all else followed. 

You'd never get pulled over for the same infraction. 

I also wouldn't have an outstanding warrant.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I also wouldn't have an outstanding warrant.

Maybe you wouldn't know... but that is also victim blaming. That's pretty ugly. The warrant didn't get him killed. The 26 year experienced officer killed him through a mistake. The struggle didn't kill him. The warrant didn't kill him. The person in charge with the gun did. That is a ridiculous mistake... 

When a person is systemically criminalized, they tend to have more reasons to gain a warrant without knowing.  Truancy leads to court and warrants - but often times it is a 17 year old trying to hold poverty at bay and they need to work. Shit happens. But you COULD very well have a warrant and find out via a traffic stop - for some unpaid parking ticket that you never knew about. You would find out by a letter in the mail most likely and not from a bogus reason for stop and search. 
 

[UNTLifer]

5 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

Maybe you wouldn't know... but that is also victim blaming. That's pretty ugly. The warrant didn't get him killed. The 26 year experienced officer killed him through a mistake. The struggle didn't kill him. The warrant didn't kill him. The person in charge with the gun did. That is a ridiculous mistake... 

When a person is systemically criminalized, they tend to have more reasons to gain a warrant without knowing.  Truancy leads to court and warrants - but often times it is a 17 year old trying to hold poverty at bay and they need to work. Shit happens. But you COULD very well have a warrant and find out via a traffic stop - for some unpaid parking ticket that you never knew about. You would find out by a letter in the mail most likely and not from a bogus reason for stop and search. 
 

Okay.  I wouldn't fight and run from the police.  That was the ridiculous mistake.  Of course, he had done this before because of his criminal history.

https://www.insider.com/daunte-wright-details-of-charges-warrants-before-killed-by-police-2021-4

Look, his death was a terrible mistake by the police officer, but let's not act like he was without mistakes of his own.  I am tired of people lifting up common criminals and talking about what wonderful humans, sons, husbands, etc... were after their death when the truth reveals differently.

Edited April 28, 2021 by UNTLifer

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

Phillando Castille - who was murdered by the cops over a traffic stop - had been stopped over 49 times in the prior 13 years for 'equipment violations.' Most of them were dismissed in court. 

He ended up murdered when he legally owned his gun and notified the cop. The discriminatory enforcement of these types of laws leads to more police interaction and then these 'accidents' happen.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

1 minute ago, UNTLifer said:

Okay.  I wouldn't fight and run from the police.  That was the ridiculous mistake.

People make mistakes and should be allowed to live another day to learn from mistakes. Cops are not are the execution squad. 

[UNTLifer]

4 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

People make mistakes and should be allowed to live another day to learn from mistakes. Cops are not are the execution squad. 

See the edit to my post above.  He was far from innocent of a few mistakes.

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

Yep. But this is where we fall to see eye to eye.. i was only speaking about the reason to stop and search. The air freshener on the mirror allowed that.. then all else followed. 

You'd never get pulled over for the same infraction. 

https://www.nytimes.com/article/daunte-wright-death-minnesota.html

Expired registration tags, cops discovered he had a warrant, he fought with them, got back in the car in an attempt to flee as he had done in the past.

[UNTLifer]

12 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

Phillando Castille - who was murdered by the cops over a traffic stop - had been stopped over 49 times in the prior 13 years for 'equipment violations.' Most of them were dismissed in court. 

He ended up murdered when he legally owned his gun and notified the cop. The discriminatory enforcement of these types of laws leads to more police interaction and then these 'accidents' happen.

Not the same case and Mr. Castile should not have been shot.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

You can't see the forest through the trees. You focus on one point. Expired tags - he had valid temp tags ( as i understand ) - it was a new purchase. The reason they officially used was the be air freshener. 

Beyond that though, any non life threatening interaction with the police should not lead to death. Yes - even struggling and making it hard to cuff. You should not be killed. I think everyone should agree on that.

Of course Castille is not the same. But it's the same point - enforcement of laws in a discriminatory way leads to more ill interactions with police. Do you not understand or just not agree? After being pulled over 49 times for minor stuff that is ultimately dismissed? I can understand a population having attitudes with police.. there's nothing illegal with being malcontent.

But as they say, you can beat the charge, not the ride. The ultimate police mantra.

 

 

[Coffee and TV]

49 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I am tired of people lifting up common criminals and talking about what wonderful humans, sons, husbands, etc... were after their death when the truth reveals differently.

The public didn't choose George Floyd, Derek Chauvin did. Same for this situation. 

[UNTLifer]

39 minutes ago, Coffee and TV said:

The public didn't choose George Floyd, Derek Chauvin did. Same for this situation. 

True, and neither were pillars in their communities.

[Coffee and TV]

1 minute ago, UNTLifer said:

True, and neither were pillars in their communities.

Maybe you can understand Dave Chappelle better. 

https://youtu.be/3tR6mKcBbT4?t=1335