Derek Chauvin Found Guilty on All Three Counts

[MGNation92]

https://www.npr.org/sections/trial-over-killing-of-george-floyd/2021/04/20/987777911/court-says-jury-has-reached-verdict-in-derek-chauvins-murder-trial

[Coffee and TV]

Everybody upset with this decision just go ahead speak up so I can block you now. Don't just give me a downvote or an eye roll, speak up please. 

[El Paso Eagle]

Not sure why people would be upset. Now I guess the appeals process starts.

[meanJewGreen]

Finally some accountability. Justice will be served when true reforms happen. 

[CMJ]

23 minutes ago, Coffee and TV said:

Everybody upset with this decision just go ahead speak up so I can block you now. Don't just give me a downvote or an eye roll, speak up please. 

Like, never ask for a downvote or an upvote on this forum.  You'll be downvoted even when people agree with you.  😁

[El Paso Eagle]

12 minutes ago, meanJewGreen said:

Finally some accountability. Justice will be served when true reforms happen. 

I am hoping you also want accountability for those who attack and kill officers?

[Coffee and TV]

7 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

I am hoping you also want accountability for those who attack and kill officers?

Ah, this thread is already headed exactly where I knew it would. 

[Hunter Green]

46 minutes ago, meanJewGreen said:

Finally some accountability. Justice will be served when true reforms happen. 

I hear this mentioned often. What type of reforms do you think need to happen? Serious question.

[Hunter Green]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/derek-chauvin-trial-verdict-jury-guilty

Fair and balanced

[Censored by Laurie]

56 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

I am hoping you also want accountability for those who attack and kill officers?

Show me the examples of those who attack and kill officers not being held accountable. 

I haven’t seen the “man shoots cop; let off with warning” news lede, but maybe I missed it. 

[meanJewGreen]

21 minutes ago, Hunter Green said:

I hear this mentioned often. What type of reforms do you think need to happen? Serious question.

Ending qualified immunity.

Stopping broken windows policing 

stopping discriminatory policies like stop and frisk 

Better training focusing on recognized biases, cultural competency, age apprproriate responses , mental illness, etc

For "good" cops to actually hold bad cops accountable rather than close ranks when something like this happens- you serve the public

An examination of white supremacism in the police force (more than you think) and rooting that out

Mental illness- cops arent adequately trained for these types of instances. working with mental health professionals (or having them ride along) when working in situations where someone is mentally ill 

Do police need tanks? Once again, you're a public service not a paramilitary force 

[Hunter Green]

1 minute ago, meanJewGreen said:

Ending qualified immunity.

Stopping broken windows policing 

stopping discriminatory policies like stop and frisk 

Better training focusing on recognized biases, cultural competency, age apprproriate responses , mental illness, etc

For "good" cops to actually hold bad cops accountable rather than close ranks when something like this happens- you serve the public

An examination of white supremacism in the police force (more than you think) and rooting that out

Mental illness- cops arent adequately trained for these types of instances. working with mental health professionals (or having them ride along) when working in situations where someone is mentally ill 

Do police need tanks? Once again, you're a public service not a paramilitary force 

I don't think he will, but I'd be interested in Emmitt's response to these suggestions.

[Censored by Laurie]

25 minutes ago, Hunter Green said:

I hear this mentioned often. What type of reforms do you think need to happen? Serious question.

Serious answer...and one that I actually think should be universally accepted by all sides in this debate...:

police do too much.

we criminalize our problems and then have asked police to fix/regulate everything wrong in society and some/lots/most they do not have legitimate training for.

Police are not medical experts. Police are not mental health experts. Police are not domestic or substance abuse counselors. 

The message of “Defund the Police” (bad branding, for sure) is that the money we have continually poured into our policing and legal systems could be better allocated across a broader array of services that will actually better people and society. 

[Coffee and TV]

10 minutes ago, meanJewGreen said:

Ending qualified immunity.

Stopping broken windows policing 

stopping discriminatory policies like stop and frisk 

Better training focusing on recognized biases, cultural competency, age apprproriate responses , mental illness, etc

For "good" cops to actually hold bad cops accountable rather than close ranks when something like this happens- you serve the public

An examination of white supremacism in the police force (more than you think) and rooting that out

Mental illness- cops arent adequately trained for these types of instances. working with mental health professionals (or having them ride along) when working in situations where someone is mentally ill 

Do police need tanks? Once again, you're a public service not a paramilitary force 

Not holding people in solitary confinement for 2 years without trial until they kill themselves. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder

Edited April 20, 2021 by Coffee and TV

[meanJewGreen]

3 minutes ago, Coffee and TV said:

Not holding people in solitary confinement for 2 years without trial until they kill themselves. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalief_Browder

Oh for sure. 

I'd also like an examination on the connection between ex-military folks who become police, and the rate of domestic violence cases among police as well

[El Paso Eagle]

28 minutes ago, Censored by Laurie said:

Serious answer...and one that I actually think should be universally accepted by all sides in this debate...:

police do too much.

we criminalize our problems and then have asked police to fix/regulate everything wrong in society and some/lots/most they do not have legitimate training for.

Police are not medical experts. Police are not mental health experts. Police are not domestic or substance abuse counselors. 

The message of “Defund the Police” (bad branding, for sure) is that the money we have continually poured into our policing and legal systems could be better allocated across a broader array of services that will actually better people and society. 

Good points. Seems in many professions we try and make people responsible for a wide range of issues that they can not possibly be trained to have the amount of skills needed to face what they do. No disagreement in looking for the most effective ways to spend money to best serve. Need politicians to stop thinking the way to solve problems is to spend more money - too many examples where this has failed. 

[El Paso Eagle]

1 hour ago, meanJewGreen said:

Oh for sure. 

I'd also like an examination on the connection between ex-military folks who become police, and the rate of domestic violence cases among police as well

So now it's not just police, it military?

[Rudy]

Cops don't just walk up to people and frisk them. At least not in Texas. Now, when on an encounter with someone, if certain conditions are met, they are allowed to pat someone down to make sure they don't have a weapon on them. 

 

Youd be suprised at how much and the wide variety in training law enforcement routinely go through. We're continually training and never stop. 

We do hold bad cops accountable, and we don't just close up ranks and protect them. You just don't hear about that in the news. In fact, pretty much every interview process I've ever seen includes a lot of discussion about integrity. 

White supremacist in... yeah just stop. There's racist people in all walks of life, but saying that it's ingrained in law enforcement is an insult to your intelligence. 

Mental illness training. Again, you have no idea how much training into any topic laew enforcement receives. We receive a lot of training in it.  But you're right, we shouldn't be handling mental illness issues, unless it is an immediate threat to the public.  Having a mental illness or crisis is NOT against the law, thus law enforcement should not be dealing with it. However, too many people either don't know what to do or simply don't want to deal with someone who is in crisis, so they call the police. 

Having a mental health specialist sounds like a good idea, until they are injured riding with a cop and your tax dollars are being used to pay for the law suit. Some agencies won't even let an officer get involved with a felony or a pursuit if they have a rider period, EVEN if the rider is a cop from another agency. 

Cops don't need tanks. Again, just stop. Tanks are armored vehicles with treads and a big ass cannon on top of it. Law enforcement agencies just have armored vehicles that can withstand gunfire. Because you know, bad guys have guns too, and have no issues with firing indiscriminately and not giving a shit who they hit.  But if you still don't think they need those, then you've never been pinned down and had to wait for SWAT to arrive to make entry on a barricaded subject. 

Oh yeah, defunding the police. Most of the budget goes for salary, benefits, training, and basic equipment like a patrol vehicle. But yeah. Kind of hard to have all this training if there's no money for the training. 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Rudy

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

Serious answer...and one that I actually think should be universally accepted by all sides in this debate...:

police do too much.

we criminalize our problems and then have asked police to fix/regulate everything wrong in society and some/lots/most they do not have legitimate training for.

Police are not medical experts. Police are not mental health experts. Police are not domestic or substance abuse counselors. 

The message of “Defund the Police” (bad branding, for sure) is that the money we have continually poured into our policing and legal systems could be better allocated across a broader array of services that will actually better people and society. 

This is good stuff & you’re right.  Society asks a lot of the police, & hold them to an extremely high standard, as we should.  Their pay does not reflect their efforts in most cases.  It’s a noble profession.

From what I’ve seen, the ideas around re-allocating funds for these types of additional resources (especially mental health & substance abuse) is good at heart, but don’t seem to be thought through all the way.

For instance, take Denton PD.  A pretty good sized force.  How many mental health/substance abuse folks would need to be hired, and what are their shifts/jurisdictions?   Or, are they just on-call all the time (talk about getting burned out on a job... I can only imagine the turnover)?

And, unfortunately, finances have to be considered.  How are those additional resources paid for?  They’re likely “specialists”, so they’d be paid more than your normal beat cops.  Raise taxes?  Balance by letting some beat cops go (thus creating bigger patrol areas & less backup for the ones remaining)?   

Now think of the same services for a PD like Dallas (maybe more doable with their shear size & budget).   Now for Krum (impossible).

I’m all for the idea.  The more specialized they can respond to situations, the better.   There just needs to be a way for it to work without, again, asking too much (in a different way now) of those we’re tasking in all of these roles.

[Rudy]

Many agencies are working towards training all of their officers as mental health officers. But it's a lengthy and costly process. And yes, they will cost more. With every additional certification and specialization, they get paid more. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

2 hours ago, meanJewGreen said:

Oh for sure. 

I'd also like an examination on the connection between ex-military folks who become police, and the rate of domestic violence cases among police as well

Yikes.  That’s a sobering read.  
I can only imagine the stress police officers are under on a daily basis (then compound that with military training that is different from policing & PTSD if they were deployed to battle zones), but obviously you can’t just come home & take it out on your family!   

Definitely something worth looking into though.

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, Rudy said:

Cops don't just walk up to people and frisk them. At least not in Texas. Now, when on an encounter with someone, if certain conditions are met, they are allowed to pat someone down to make sure they don't have a weapon on them. 

 

Youd be suprised at how much and the wide variety in training law enforcement routinely go through. We're continually training and never stop. 

We do hold bad cops accountable, and we don't just close up ranks and protect them. You just don't hear about that in the news. In fact, pretty much every interview process I've ever seen includes a lot of discussion about integrity. 

White supremacist in... yeah just stop. There's racist people in all walks of life, but saying that it's ingrained in law enforcement is an insult to your intelligence. 

Mental illness training. Again, you have no idea how much training into any topic laew enforcement receives. We receive a lot of training in it.  But you're right, we shouldn't be handling mental illness issues, unless it is an immediate threat to the public.  Having a mental illness or crisis is NOT against the law, thus law enforcement should not be dealing with it. However, too many people either don't know what to do or simply don't want to deal with someone who is in crisis, so they call the police. 

Having a mental health specialist sounds like a good idea, until they are injured riding with a cop and your tax dollars are being used to pay for the law suit. Some agencies won't even let an officer get involved with a felony or a pursuit if they have a rider period, EVEN if the rider is a cop from another agency. 

Cops don't need tanks. Again, just stop. Tanks are armored vehicles with treads and a big ass cannon on top of it. Law enforcement agencies just have armored vehicles that can withstand gunfire. Because you know, bad guys have guns too, and have no issues with firing indiscriminately and not giving a shit who they hit.  But if you still don't think they need those, then you've never been pinned down and had to wait for SWAT to arrive to make entry on a barricaded subject. 

Oh yeah, defunding the police. Most of the budget goes for salary, benefits, training, and basic equipment like a patrol vehicle. But yeah. Kind of hard to have all this training if there's no money for the training. 

 

[greenminer]

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

10 hours ago, Rudy said:

Many agencies are working towards training all of their officers as mental health officers. But it's a lengthy and costly process. And yes, they will cost more. With every additional certification and specialization, they get paid more. 

But how many different "certifications" can an officer get before they have all of these specialties covered to the point that they could de-escalate situations as well as someone who has been through much more targeted training?   
It's definitely good to have front-line guys that at least have some training upon arrival to assess a situation, but it would be better to have someone else who is much more qualified to also engage.   A drug user's mind cannot be understood.  Neither can someone who is suffering from a mental health break.

[meanJewGreen]

12 hours ago, Rudy said:

Cops don't just walk up to people and frisk them. At least not in Texas. Now, when on an encounter with someone, if certain conditions are met, they are allowed to pat someone down to make sure they don't have a weapon on them. 

 

Youd be suprised at how much and the wide variety in training law enforcement routinely go through. We're continually training and never stop. 

We do hold bad cops accountable, and we don't just close up ranks and protect them. You just don't hear about that in the news. In fact, pretty much every interview process I've ever seen includes a lot of discussion about integrity. 

White supremacist in... yeah just stop. There's racist people in all walks of life, but saying that it's ingrained in law enforcement is an insult to your intelligence. 

Mental illness training. Again, you have no idea how much training into any topic laew enforcement receives. We receive a lot of training in it.  But you're right, we shouldn't be handling mental illness issues, unless it is an immediate threat to the public.  Having a mental illness or crisis is NOT against the law, thus law enforcement should not be dealing with it. However, too many people either don't know what to do or simply don't want to deal with someone who is in crisis, so they call the police. 

Having a mental health specialist sounds like a good idea, until they are injured riding with a cop and your tax dollars are being used to pay for the law suit. Some agencies won't even let an officer get involved with a felony or a pursuit if they have a rider period, EVEN if the rider is a cop from another agency. 

Cops don't need tanks. Again, just stop. Tanks are armored vehicles with treads and a big ass cannon on top of it. Law enforcement agencies just have armored vehicles that can withstand gunfire. Because you know, bad guys have guns too, and have no issues with firing indiscriminately and not giving a shit who they hit.  But if you still don't think they need those, then you've never been pinned down and had to wait for SWAT to arrive to make entry on a barricaded subject. 

Oh yeah, defunding the police. Most of the budget goes for salary, benefits, training, and basic equipment like a patrol vehicle. But yeah. Kind of hard to have all this training if there's no money for the training. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/white-supremacists-militias-infiltrate-us-police-report

https://abcnews.go.com/US/white-supremacists-seek-affiliation-law-enforcement-goals-internal/story?id=76309051

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/st-louis-sergeant-says-there-are-white-supremacists-on-police-force/

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/hidden-plain-sight-racism-white-supremacy-and-far-right-militancy-law

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-02-17/lapd-other-police-agencies-struggle-with-where-to-draw-the-line-with-political-extremism-in-their-ranks

Sounds like an epidemic to me. 

I'm not anti-police but I think policing needs some serious reforming. We ask cops to do too much, but perhaps the training needs to be different. Not only that, but if you have white supremacists on the force, do you truly have a police force that will serve the public?