A National Perspective-With 41K UNT enrollment & 300K DFW NT alums—Is it really time to shrink our 🏀 venue? That is...

PlummMeanGreen · April 3, 2021

...assuming we add March Madness as an annual event in Mean Green Country?
And yes, the ageless Super Pit needs some tweaking alright, but besides luxury suites what else is there that doesn’t cause us to burn the barn down to kill a mouse (as in gate receipts—a wonderful source of revenue they say).

▶️•••Check below link of the 2019 (pre-pandemic) average attendance of NCAA
P-5 & G-5 basketball schools.
Not many of them will be trying to figure out how to lose 30% of their present seating capacity. ▶️ New venues are nice, wonderful & all that, but will a smaller one really project our future growth (across the board) or are we going to stay stuck in our basketball past while basing everything on that?

Or.....is all this college basketball campus venue capacity-shrinking just another keeping up with some of the Joneses cycle happening in parts of the Southwest?🤭

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/college-basketball-attendance-leaders-Syracuse-Orange-Kentucky-Wildcats-North-Carolina-Tar-Heels-134006883/#134006883_1

❇️🦅❇️

Edited April 3, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

greenjoe · April 3, 2021

I think PlummMeanGreen is on to something. How many new venues plan for LESS attendance ? I’m willing to bet that I’ve seen as many BB games at the Coliseum as anyone. I think the seats are fine. The new restrooms are fine. The lighting is fine. The concession (although s-l-o-w) are fine. I haven’t been to the locker rooms but I bet they’re as good as any.

Why do we want to want to spend a lot of money for less seating and force the students to walk across I-35 ?

Pack the Put. Simple as that. Winning will solve any other problems.

Thanks, Plumm

CMJ · April 3, 2021

USC and Auburn's basketball venues which opened in the last 15 years both seated less than their previous ones. Those were from the top of my head.

Not saying I want the Super Pit replaced though.

MCMLXXX · April 3, 2021

Houston has reduced seating at the Fertitta Center (formerly Hofheinz Arena) from 10,000 starting in 1969 to 8479 in 1998 then to 7100 in 2018. The last renovation was $60 million.

Baylor plans on spending over $105 million to build a new facility that will seat 7500 which is 2500 fewer people than their current facility.

https://www.statesman.com/sports/20190507/baylor-announces-plans-for-new-105-million-basketball-arena

Edited April 3, 2021 by MCMLXXX

GrandGreen · April 3, 2021

Smaller McDonald's lighting basketball stadiums are in. Go look at UTA's.

Spending something around $100m for a new smaller arenas would be foolishness at the highest level.

How many people go to college basketball games because of the arena?

The only advantage of building a new facility would be extras that make money like private suites, club access, etc. However, I doubt any financial model would ever be developed that would support a new facility.

The only caveat would be if extensive repairs have to be made to the SP. Even than because of the utility of the SP for non-basketball activities, the repairs would probably have to made regardless of where basketball is played.

bstnsportsfan3 · April 3, 2021

Gotta make the seats in the pit bigger. They are tiny

UNTLifer · April 4, 2021

1 hour ago, bstnsportsfan3 said:

Gotta make the seats in the pit bigger. They are tiny

Are they or are American’s butts getting bigger?

image.gif.710dca7ca5212009fd5021223001be06.gif

greenjoe · April 4, 2021

The seat size is the same as it was when the Coliseum was built in 1970. Did you know there are actually 4 width seats to make them fit exactly in rows that increase in size the higher you go up. The problem with size came when we added cup holders during the green seat conversion. The arm rests were not designed fir cup holders so getting in or out is a bit snug.

Did you know we put a man on the moon before cup holders and wheels on luggage became commonplace ?

GO MEAN GREEN

All About UNT · April 4, 2021

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

Are they or are American’s butts getting bigger?

I have a Hank Hill ass and yeah it sucks in the seats at the Super Pit... I have a gut and I'm broad shouldered but that shouldn't affect the seats.

PlummMeanGreen · April 4, 2021

On A Sad Note...
I saw in the cardboard cutouts in the 1’st half of Gonzaga/UCLA a cutout of Billy Tubbs which Jim Nantz (?) said he & other coaches had passed in the last year or so.
••• I took a Basketball Coaching class taught by Billy Tubbs as an elective. He was a Bill Blakely assistant at UNT. I took his class because I thought he was a cool dude & he was so doggone funny. His class was a blast for all of us who spent a semester with him.
RIP, Coach Billy Tubbs.

❇️🦅❇️

Edited April 4, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

tmjerm · April 4, 2021

Wren has said it’s not imminent but the repairs/remodeling required to modernize the Pit are more expensive than building a new facility but I agree that the entire idea is less about that and more about posturing and keeping up with the Joneses. There’s not a lot of authentic campus feeling stuff left to our athletic facilities and separating them entirely from campus with probably the busiest highway in America is a bummer. Will miss the feeling of walking by Clark or the Snake Pit on the way into a game. Mean Green Village is great and all but it’d be cooler if it was east of 35E.

Andrew · April 4, 2021

19 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

...assuming we add March Madness as an annual event in Mean Green Country?
And yes, the ageless Super Pit needs some tweaking alright, but besides luxury suites what else is there that doesn’t cause us to burn the barn down to kill a mouse (as in gate receipts—a wonderful source of revenue they say).

▶️•••Check below link of the 2019 (pre-pandemic) average attendance of NCAA
P-5 & G-5 basketball schools.
Not many of them will be trying to figure out how to lose 30% of their present seating capacity. ▶️ New venues are nice, wonderful & all that, but will a smaller one really project our future growth (across the board) or are we going to stay stuck in our basketball past while basing everything on that?

Or.....is all this college basketball campus venue capacity-shrinking just another keeping up with some of the Joneses cycle happening in parts of the Southwest?🤭

https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/college-basketball-attendance-leaders-Syracuse-Orange-Kentucky-Wildcats-North-Carolina-Tar-Heels-134006883/#134006883_1

❇️🦅❇️

I still believe it was a missed opportunity to build it where fours was with a parking garage in the back by the fields and the beer barn. Easy to hold tournaments and utilize the pit if needed, easier for students to walk to the games, and I think it would look better from the highway to see it across from Apogee.

Parking and tailgating are all they need by apogee. Baseball field one day on the back side of the apogee land would be nice too.

southsideguy · April 4, 2021

If we keep the pit it needs to be given over to the athletic department. Has the pit ever sold out? I moved back to Denton just in time to enjoy the Benford era. I felt like the Magtag repair man at time. Then we win and the CBI had a good crowds but it was not sold out and then Covid hit. I rather have a smaller loud with a crowd then a big empty arena. Maybe make luxury boxes on the upper areas of the pit?

PlummMeanGreen · April 4, 2021

36 minutes ago, Andrew said:

I still believe it was a missed opportunity to build it where fours was with a parking garage in the back by the fields and the beer barn. Easy to hold tournaments and utilize the pit if needed, easier for students to walk to the games, and I think it would look better from the highway to see it across from Apogee.

Parking and tailgating are all they need by apogee. Baseball field one day on the back side of the apogee land would be nice too.

I vacillate on what our favorite school should do with the BB venue.
Sorta’ lean toward a significant upscale (luxury suites, etc.) of the Super Pit, though. That place amazes me to this day for how modern it has stayed thru all the decades. Jeez-Louise, I was 21 years old the night the SP made its debut.
Court side: I know I’ll be in the minority (again), but I like the court to be less busy with more white space—somewhat like TCU’s, but to change it now could be bad luck?🧐

🦅

Edited April 4, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

greenjoe · April 4, 2021

I have a hard time believing a new facility with all the trappings therein and a new parking lot would cost less that making upgrades necessary to the Coliseum.

CMJ · April 4, 2021

1 hour ago, southsideguy said:

If we keep the pit it needs to be given over to the athletic department. Has the pit ever sold out? I moved back to Denton just in time to enjoy the Benford era. I felt like the Magtag repair man at time. Then we win and the CBI had a good crowds but it was not sold out and then Covid hit. I rather have a smaller loud with a crowd then a big empty arena. Maybe make luxury boxes on the upper areas of the pit?

Yes, it sold out once in 1977 against SMU. We have had some large crowds since, but never a sellout.

wardly · April 4, 2021

If you want to give the Super PIT a more intimate feel then tarp the top tier and force spectators down. A new 6 or 7 thousand seat arena would cost a fortune which we don't have.

PlummMeanGreen · April 4, 2021

22 hours ago, CMJ said:

Yes, it sold out once in 1977 against SMU. We have had some large crowds since, but never a sellout.

1977: SMU at NORTH TEXAS,
Super Pit (10,000 capacity)

I heard the Denton Fire Marshall (Hagerman)? was not pleased with 700 extra fans in the SP that night, CMJ.

•••During the Pre-game “AD” Hayden Fry was out on the court perimeter ordering the taking down of (disparaging to the Pony’s) banners.

••• I remember an SMU fraternity was hunkered down together in the upper section steps.

🗣🗣🗣 “WELCOME TO THE PIT!”🤠

❇️🦅❇️

Edited April 5, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

CMJ · April 4, 2021

Mom went into Labor with my brother during that game. My parents left at half time. She was sorta upset they had to go. LOL

Edited April 4, 2021 by CMJ

PlummMeanGreen · April 4, 2021

3 minutes ago, CMJ said:

Mom went into Labor with my brother during that game. They left at half time.

I think SMU Coach Sonny Allen went into labor the last 10 seconds of that game.

❇️“WELCOME TO THE PIT!”❇️

tmjerm · April 4, 2021

3 hours ago, greenjoe said:

I have a hard time believing a new facility with all the trappings therein and a new parking lot would cost less that making upgrades necessary to the Coliseum.

I don’t disagree but here it is from the horse’s mouth

Edited April 4, 2021 by tmjerm

Cooley · April 4, 2021

16 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

On A Sad Note...
I saw in the cardboard cutouts in the 1’st half of Gonzaga/UCLA a cutout of Billy Tubbs which Jim Nantz (?) said he & other coaches had passed in the last year or so.
••• I took a Basketball Coaching class taught by Billy Tubbs as an elective. He was a Bill Blakely assistant at UNT. I took his class because I thought he was a cool dude & he was so doggone funny. His class was a blast for all of us who spent a semester with him.
RIP, Coach Billy Tubbs.

❇️🦅❇️

We may have been in the same Tubb's class. He dismissed more than half of those classes because he had something else to do.

Cooley · April 4, 2021

16,500 currently for hoops. Going down to 10k

https://www.kut.org/sports/2019-11-10/new-ut-arena-to-be-named-moody-center-after-130m-gift-from-foundation

greenjoe · April 5, 2021

Funny both Shaka Smart and Karen Aston are quoted in the Moody article. Both are grateful and both are gone.

And I’m sure there are those that believe building a new basketball arena is cheaper than renovating whatever ails the Coliseum. Having done some commercial and residential building myself, I simply don’t believe it.

GO MEAN GREEN