Encouraging vaccine research

[97and03]

Still needs more study (and more people vaccinated) but early research indicates those who are vaccinated have a lower chance of passing along COVID. Not completely effective at stopping the spread but seems to lower viral loads thus making it less likely it is spread. Hopefully we can get enough people vaccinated before the variants overtake the vaccines. 

 

[Cr1028]

@97and03, I have a question. I know you follow this way more closely than I. If all kids, with very few exceptions, are asymptomatic to Covid and the vaccine largely prevents adults from both getting and spreading the virus, why do they need to inoculate children?

Edited April 2, 2021 by Cr1028

[LongJim]

53 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

@97and03, I have a question. I know you follow this way more closely than I. If all kids, with very few exceptions, are asymptomatic to Covid and the vaccine largely prevents adults from both getting and spreading the virus, why do they need to inoculate children?

Hopefully so the teachers unions will have one less excuse to not return to work.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

4 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

@97and03, I have a question. I know you follow this way more closely than I. If all kids, with very few exceptions, are asymptomatic to Covid and the vaccine largely prevents adults from both getting and spreading the virus, why do they need to inoculate children?

There are a few assumptions in your question.

1) That enough adults will be vaccinated to offset the spread from children. Only 60(?)% of 60+ aged people are vaccinated, but that 40% can get decimated easily. If the grandchild is vaccinated, then the outlook looks good.  

2) That although asymptomatic outwardly, children do show some 'damage' internally from Covid. We do not know long term how the inflammation may affect later life. Maybe there are pulmonary implications? Or harder hit by pneumonia later? So the thinking is to try to prevent spread entirely. Children are in tests right now - they are testing dosage in children - not effectiveness. They hope that children can go with half dose and get the full protection. 

 

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

There are a few assumptions in your question.

1) That enough adults will be vaccinated to offset the spread from children. Only 60(?)% of 60+ aged people are vaccinated, but that 40% can get decimated easily. If the grandchild is vaccinated, then the outlook looks good.  

2) That although asymptomatic outwardly, children do show some 'damage' internally from Covid. We do not know long term how the inflammation may affect later life. Maybe there are pulmonary implications? Or harder hit by pneumonia later? So the thinking is to try to prevent spread entirely. Children are in tests right now - they are testing dosage in children - not effectiveness. They hope that children can go with half dose and get the full protection. 

 

Any links to support these statements?

They are testing the effectiveness of the vaccine in children.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/covid-vaccine-pfizer-says-shot-is-100percent-effective-in-kids-ages-12-to-15.html

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by UNTLifer

[Cr1028]

3 hours ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

There are a few assumptions in your question.

1) That enough adults will be vaccinated to offset the spread from children. Only 60(?)% of 60+ aged people are vaccinated, but that 40% can get decimated easily. If the grandchild is vaccinated, then the outlook looks good. 

I won’t argue the second point as only time will tell on that one. 
 

On the first point, why are 40% of those 60+ not vaccinated? If it is because of their own choices, why should a kid require a vaccination to protect that grandparent from their own poor choices?

I want make clear that I don’t write this to be combative. I write it to learn and understand different points of view. I feel like despite my wish not to wear them, the justification of the mask mandate made sense and was temporary. For the vaccine, if it protects you and you choose not to get it, that is your personal choice and if you get very ill or die because of that choice, it is on you.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Cr1028

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

2 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Any links to support these statements?

They are testing the effectiveness of the vaccine in children.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/covid-vaccine-pfizer-says-shot-is-100percent-effective-in-kids-ages-12-to-15.html

 

I feel like you just *want* to disagree with me.  

Your article says what I said -- 100% effective - therefore they are NOT testing the effectiveness *anymore*. They already know it works in children. That is what I said. 

Now they are testing dosing - to see if children can maintain the effectiveness at a lower dose. Those are the ongoing trials now.  

Edited April 2, 2021 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

34 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

I won’t argue the second point as only time will tell on that one. 
 

On the first point, why are 40% of those 60+ not vaccinated? If it is because of their own choices, why should a kid require a vaccination to protect that grandparent from their own poor choices?

I want make clear that I don’t write this to be combative. I write it to lean and understand different points of view. I feel like despite my wish not to wear them, the justification of the mask mandate made sense and was temporary. For the vaccine, if it protects you and you choose not to get it, that is your personal choice and if you get very ill or die because of that choice, it is on you.

I get your point - not sure why I got the eye roll, but that is just my fan club, I guess.  

I agree, if you don't get the vaccine when the  data shows it is a safe, then that is on you. You run the risk of  getting exposed by your grand-children. So it goes. But at the same time, if there is little risk and high reward for getting your child  vaccinated - why wouldn't you? Unless you are in the same thinking as the grandparents and are  anti-vax or vax-skeptical.  I can't say. I say "you" in the "royal you" sense.  Not you, you.

I was just giving a reason for a push to get children vaccinated and how it is good for the population. 

1. Can help keep the risky but non vaccinated safe. 
2. Can prevent catching Covid, thus eliminating the worry about long term complications from an asymptomatic case.

[Cr1028]

24 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

I get your point - not sure why I got the eye roll, but that is just my fan club, I guess.  

I agree, if you don't get the vaccine when the  data shows it is a safe, then that is on you. You run the risk of  getting exposed by your grand-children. So it goes. But at the same time, if there is little risk and high reward for getting your child  vaccinated - why wouldn't you? Unless you are in the same thinking as the grandparents and are  anti-vax or vax-skeptical.  I can't say. I say "you" in the "royal you" sense.  Not you, you.

I was just giving a reason for a push to get children vaccinated and how it is good for the population. 

1. Can help keep the risky but non vaccinated safe. 
2. Can prevent catching Covid, thus eliminating the worry about long term complications from an asymptomatic case.

Haha, you do have a fan club but I didn’t eye roll you. We usually keep it pretty civil. I also knew you meant the royal you, “Dude”.  

Thanks for the reply.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Cr1028

[UNTLifer]

3 hours ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

I feel like you just *want* to disagree with me.  

Your article says what I said -- 100% effective - therefore they are NOT testing the effectiveness *anymore*. They already know it works in children. That is what I said. 

Now they are testing dosing - to see if children can maintain the effectiveness at a lower dose. Those are the ongoing trials now.  

No, I wanted a link because I am not seeing anything to back up your claim that they are testing dosing. 
 

Also, although there has been years of research on the RNA type vaccine, nobody knows the long term effects. I have talked to trusted people that have spent their career in medicine that think there could be issues. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by UNTLifer

[greenminer]

13 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I have talked to trusted people that have spent their career in medicine that think there could be issues. 

Death by seatbelt is an issue, but it doesn't negate the overall benefit to drivers.

Keep us informed.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

24 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

No, I wanted a link because I am not seeing anything to back up your claim that they are testing dosing. 

It's in damn near every article.. And it's just how studies work when trying to back port to children. This isn't a wild conspiracy. 

You'll read that they are studying effectiveness, but that's been answered, it's dosing for second phase trials..

"...going to be doing a second phase of studies, which will be dose finding, and these will be in the younger age groups - so going down to the 2- to 5-year-olds and then to the 6-month-old to 2-year-olds. And the idea there will be to start at a very low dose of vaccine and see if the children tolerate it."

How The COVID-19 Vaccine Trials In Children Are Going To Work https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/979340096/how-the-covid-19-trials-in-children-are-going-to-work

"Pfizer launched the pediatric trial of its Covid-19 vaccine to determine the safety, effectiveness and proper dosage for children ages 6..."

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/pfizer-launches-pediatric-trial-test-covid-vaccine-children-rcna500

 

[UNTLifer]

Thank you.  Oh, and relax.

Edited April 3, 2021 by UNTLifer

[97and03]

On 4/3/2021 at 12:37 AM, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

There are a few assumptions in your question.

1) That enough adults will be vaccinated to offset the spread from children. Only 60(?)% of 60+ aged people are vaccinated, but that 40% can get decimated easily. If the grandchild is vaccinated, then the outlook looks good.  

2) That although asymptomatic outwardly, children do show some 'damage' internally from Covid. We do not know long term how the inflammation may affect later life. Maybe there are pulmonary implications? Or harder hit by pneumonia later? So the thinking is to try to prevent spread entirely. Children are in tests right now - they are testing dosage in children - not effectiveness. They hope that children can go with half dose and get the full protection. 

 

@Cr1028sorry I missed your questions. The above is a pretty good answer. You will see elsewhere I have posted about long COViD and other damage to the body that this nasty bugger can cause. 
I would add to the above that in some ways I agree to what you say above: well if people don’t get vaccinated, isn’t it their problem/fault if they get sick.  Yes on the personal level, but no on the public level. It is a drain on the public health system and our healthcare workers deserve to not have to deal with this anymore. 
Second, we want to stamp this thing out as completely and as quickly as possible. If kids catch it and are asymptomatic, ok hopefully no harm to the individual kid (again see the above argument about potential complications later) but that passing of the virus leads to mutations. Mutations can lead to various negative outcomes, such as the ability of the virus to overcome the vaccine (or at least certain types of it) and can also change the spread, lethality, and/or profile of the victims. The UK variant is a concern for the first example and the Brazilian for the second. Remember how we were all saying this virus “only affects old people” a year ago? Well not anymore thanks to Brazil’s leadership completely failing it’s people. Now the young are getting hammered because the virus ran wild there and mutated.

Hope that was helpful.

 

[Cr1028]

4 hours ago, 97and03 said:

@Cr1028sorry I missed your questions. The above is a pretty good answer. You will see elsewhere I have posted about long COViD and other damage to the body that this nasty bugger can cause. 
I would add to the above that in some ways I agree to what you say above: well if people don’t get vaccinated, isn’t it their problem/fault if they get sick.  Yes on the personal level, but no on the public level. It is a drain on the public health system and our healthcare workers deserve to not have to deal with this anymore. 
Second, we want to stamp this thing out as completely and as quickly as possible. If kids catch it and are asymptomatic, ok hopefully no harm to the individual kid (again see the above argument about potential complications later) but that passing of the virus leads to mutations. Mutations can lead to various negative outcomes, such as the ability of the virus to overcome the vaccine (or at least certain types of it) and can also change the spread, lethality, and/or profile of the victims. The UK variant is a concern for the first example and the Brazilian for the second. Remember how we were all saying this virus “only affects old people” a year ago? Well not anymore thanks to Brazil’s leadership completely failing it’s people. Now the young are getting hammered because the virus ran wild there and mutated.

Hope that was helpful.

 

Wow, thanks, I had no idea about Brazil’s younger people.