Opt Out vs. Quitter?

[El Paso Eagle]

36 minutes ago, DentonLurker said:

I have no issue with players opting out. Loyalty is a two-way street. As long as coaches can quit/get fired by AD's before a season is over, I have no issue with players moving on whenever they see fit. Seems fair to me.

I think this will also be tested in the way it is becoming easier to transfer. Players will move on if they believe it will help them. At the same time, with players looking to move, we might see more players "encouraged" to look elsewhere to make room for other players, and even more so when a new coach comes in to help clear out players he is not interested in - very much like basketball does now.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

18 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Recent years would be more accurate.  At the end of their college career, players with a shot at the NFL quickly drop their team mentality.

Like our very own 'quitter' Darden, huh? 

Nice to see the generational divide on how they view one of the very best we've had. Right? 

[BillySee58]

17 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Recent years would be more accurate.  At the end of their college career, players with a shot at the NFL quickly drop their team mentality.

Yeah, last 5 years or so is when we started seeing it. I would say this has more to do with the fact that bowl games essentially mean almost nothing now from what they used to with the college football playoff system. People are so quick to say they are abandoning their team while glancing over the facts that them getting drafted highly is far more important to the team’s future success in recruiting than winning the Cheez It Bowl is. The bowls have become so much less prestigious that it’s more beneficial to serve as a chance to get young players experience for next season than it is to win the game in most cases as well.

There is just no good example in any other profession, but if everyone on this board went from making $20K a year to accepting a job offer making over $500K a year, while risking the chance of losing that $500K salary job offer while performing the $20K salary job, plenty here would make the best decision in mind for their families, and it would never be seen as abandoning their team that was paying them $20K a year.

[BillySee58]

14 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

Like our very own 'quitter' Darden, huh? 

Nice to see the generational divide on how they view one of the very best we've had. Right? 

How about coaches who choose not to coach a bowl game after accepting a new job? Where is the uproar over them quitting? There are no threads in here or people calling them quitters when that happens at other schools, but suddenly people care so much about an Oklahoma State player. Are those coaches from the same generation as the college players?

Edited December 30, 2020 by BillySee58

[BillySee58]

On October 27th Scotty Walden left his interim HC position with Southern Miss midseason to accept the full-time HC job at Austin Peay. Here is his thread, made during our game with them on October 3rd and continued when he accepted the Austin Peay job. Not a single poster on here called him a quitter or made a critical remark of him leaving the team midseason. There is a clear double standard on how players and coaches’ decisions are viewed in similar circumstances.

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by BillySee58

[El Paso Eagle]

There is probably a generational issue here without a doubt. It is OK to disagree without constantly telling those who disagree with you how wrong or unenlightened they are. 

[BillySee58]

5 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

There is probably a generational issue here without a doubt. It is OK to disagree without constantly telling those who disagree with you how wrong or unenlightened they are. 

My problem isn’t with disagreement. It’s with double standard. If someone called coaches and players quitters under the same circumstances, I disagree but they are fundamentally consistent. That’s not the case here.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

27 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

There is just no good example in any other profession, but if everyone on this board went from making $20K a year to accepting a job offer making over $500K a year, while risking the chance of losing that $500K salary job offer while performing the $20K salary job, plenty here would make the best decision in mind for their families, and it would never be seen as abandoning their team that was paying them $20K a year.

If a surgical resident making $50k a year wanted to not operate in their last case as a resident because they risked an accidental needle prick on an HIV positive person .... because they accepted an offer of $450k a year that started in a month? Yeh. I am not going to judge. There are other interns and residents that need to get their skills behind them. 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

11 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

There is probably a generational issue here without a doubt. It is OK to disagree without constantly telling those who disagree with you how wrong or unenlightened they are. 

You literally started this topic by calling it 'sad.' If that is not an enlightened judgement, then the moon must be made of cheese.  

Edited December 30, 2020 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[El Paso Eagle]

2 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

My problem isn’t with disagreement. It’s with double standard. If someone called coaches and players quitters under the same circumstances, I disagree but they are fundamentally consistent. That’s not the case here.

Understand. If a coach takes another job then I would prefer him to no longer be a part of the team. If a player chooses to move on, then fine. But should they continue to be on the sideline with the team? My original question last night night was based on the fact that no one provided any information in this case and when they are a member of the coaching staff the comment was that it was "the player's decision", not an agreement was made before hand. Agree or not, things have changed and we will all move on. 

[El Paso Eagle]

3 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

You literally started this topic by calling it 'sad.' If that is not an enlightened judgement, then the moon must be made of cheese.  

See my comment above. What was told to the reporter at the time was different than what came out afterwards. Of course, you as so often are all knowing what others must be thinking as you seem to be the expert on what other perceive. 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

20 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

See my comment above. What was told to the reporter at the time was different than what came out afterwards. Of course, you as so often are all knowing what others must be thinking as you seem to be the expert on what other perceive. 

I am not claiming to be an expert here - but 21 hours ago you started this thread calling it "sad" and it turns out it was shooting from the hip. However, 22 hours ago were the tweets (also in this thread) that confirm it was an agreement. The information was already out there in the football ether...

If anything the game broadcasters were on the 'get off my lawn' side of this argument with their indignation that he wasn't going full bore on the Cheez-It bowl. Then it took twitter to bring it back to reality - which is what *we* were commenting on here in this thread. 

Twitter is damn near real time and sports reporters are always filling in the gaps during games.

FWIW. When I was a tiny boy, I never took Madden's words as pure fact. I didn't really think the level of back sweat on the player indicated their value to the team. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[BillySee58]

19 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Understand. If a coach takes another job then I would prefer him to no longer be a part of the team. If a player chooses to move on, then fine. But should they continue to be on the sideline with the team? My original question last night night was based on the fact that no one provided any information in this case and when they are a member of the coaching staff the comment was that it was "the player's decision", not an agreement was made before hand. Agree or not, things have changed and we will all move on. 

Again, I posted a thread from this exact same forum just two months ago with a coach quitting his team MIDSEASON, not just before a bowl game, and not a single person called him a quitter, yet when it’s a player the thread becomes littered with it. 

From what I’ve seen with coaches, from a fan perception it’s pretty much a win-win on the bowl game with the team they are leaving. If they choose not to coach the bowl game, people are understanding and acknowledge that they could be a potential distraction so it makes sense not to coach, and if they do coach they are almost always lauded on the broadcasts for sticking it out and finishing the season they started. 

If you are consistent or at least have some logic like you mentioned for why you’re going to treat players and coaches differently under similar circumstances, agree to disagree. 

[Graddean]

BillySee is right about the double standard.  Both coaches and players are in breach of contract in termination of the agreement unilaterally.  If I were a player, I would not want either a player or a coach on the sideline.  

[TruthWins]

Look what’s happening to Trask right now because his top 3 receivers quit on him. Makes him look bad because of those 3 selfish players. 

[Udomann]

Risk is a logarithmic expression of a players possibility. A school takes risk to develop a player. That player builds up a schools reputation.

But when a player achieves the NFL threshold they now have more to lose than gain by continued playing. Until NCAAF balances the players future potential with their current risk, I am all 100% on the players side to opt out. 

In this case (and in Dardens) one game could lose them millions. Its not a good risk.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

On 12/29/2020 at 8:23 PM, BillySee58 said:

Look on twitter at any announcement of a player opting out. Comments are filled with people proclaiming them as quitters. Every time, without fail. Using people in the plural sense.

A $20,000 a year education when these players would command over $300,000 a year in an open market is a joke. Not to mention most of these players are encouraged to take easy classes and majors that don’t return much of an ROI at all anymore. They could pay for their education 10X over in a system where they received a fair share of the income they generate. It’s a farce. Especially when these guys are about to sign multi-million dollar rookie contracts, I don’t get how anyone can fault them for protecting the future of them and their families.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/college-football-player-value-2017-11%3famp

Then let them command it with their HS hudl film. The usage goes both ways. 

[BillySee58]

39 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Then let them command it with their HS hudl film. The usage goes both ways. 

Not sure what you mean by that first sentence

[Graddean]

What happens when players start opting out durin the regular season?

[97and03]

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

48 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Thanks for making my point. 

Remind me: Darden==PRO

Let's see if you claim him and are proud of him. 

Have your liked any Guyton threads? I don't know.. but he quit on North Texas. Let's erase him.

 

[UNTexas]

20 hours ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

Like our very own 'quitter' Darden, huh? 

Nice to see the generational divide on how they view one of the very best we've had. Right? 

I told someone basically the same thing last night when people complained about players sitting out of the Cotton Bowl. Its ridiculous. Coaches can make millions while players get free college but are broke and a select few sit because they want to play on Sundays to hopefully get a big payday. Why get hurt in an irrelevant bowl game? Everyone saw what happened to Jaylon Smith. The schools and their staffs get rich and people get mad when a player watches out for themselves at the end. Unreal.

Edited December 31, 2020 by UNTexas

[BillySee58]

21 minutes ago, UNTexas said:

I told someone basically the same thing last night when people complained about players sitting out of the Cotton Bowl. Its ridiculous. Coaches can make millions while players get free college but are broke and a select few sit because they want to play on Sundays to hopefully get a big payday. Why get hurt in an irrelevant bowl game? Everyone saw saw what happened to Jaylon Smith. The schools and their staffs get rich and people get mad when a player watches out for themselves at the end. Unreal.

I’m definitely in agreement with you, and curious to hear your view, as a former player. If one of your teammates who you busted his tail with for years was a projected draft pick and chose to sit that final bowl game, would that change your view on them? Would you feel they quit on you and the team? Would you understand the decision and be happy for them? What would be the consensus around the locker room, amongst the players?

[GreenGang45]

This why players opt out of meaningless bowl games . 

Edited December 31, 2020 by GreenGang45

[UNTexas]

11 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

I’m definitely in agreement with you, and curious to hear your view, as a former player. If one of your teammates who you busted his tail with for years was a projected draft pick and chose to sit that final bowl game, would that change your view on them? Would you feel they quit on you and the team? Would you understand the decision and be happy for them? What would be the consensus around the locker room, amongst the players?

I would have totally supported it. I would also hope they let them travel to be on the sideline with the team. I don't know anyone who would have given them a hard time. People forget a young player would get a chance to step up and get experience. Just because a player isn't suited up or didn't travel doesn't mean they aren't part of the team. Redshirts, injured players, or walkons that never play are all part of the team. Coaches always preach next man up and this situation is no different.