Who Can Play On Defense?

BillySee58 · December 22, 2020

We’re obviously going to look to the transfer market to shore things up, so where does the help really need to be? First of all, I think we’re going to see a 3-3-5 where we have 3 traditional d-linemen and a Jack LB. One of our defensive end signees, Chris Wright, was classified as a linebacker so that tells me they see him fitting into that Jack LB spot when he gets here, so I think that’s what we see.

As for who can play, on the d-line, if Novil leaves we have a lot of options but not a lot of proven play. The young guys should be improved but I think we need at least one, maybe two guys who can fill one of these three spots. I would trust the Murphy twins at the Jack spot, even though they aren’t perfect they have pass rush skills and should be improved in the run game with an offseason.

At LB, with two traditional second level linebackers, we have two in KD Davis and Tyreke Davis who can play but just haven’t proven to be impact players (a common theme throughout our entire defense). Jordan Brown did not play well yesterday but he had made some splash plays and shown ability as a true freshman, and Nixon should be at least a solid backup. We have some okay options but no one who is a clear plus player, although hopefully KD Davis gets there since it looked like he was heading there.

Then in the secondary we had so many bodies and actually had some decent performances against the pass the last three games. I feel really good in Upton Stout, and feel like he can make an impact either at outside corner or in that slot corner/safety spot Cam Johnson played. I also think Gaddie can play, and we have a lot of candidates after that. Between Jordan Rucker (Purdue), John Davis (Texas Tech), and Logan Wilson (K-State) we have a lot of P5 transfer talent already here.

Overall we need to look for help at all levels but I’d look hard for:

- a good 3-tech DE who is built sort of like Pickett and Rausaw (6’3” 275) but has quickness and experience. Let them develop behind him.

- a traditional DE to compete with Mccrae. I think Mccrae can be good and JUCOs usually take a season to acclimate, but we need another option as an every-down DE.

- a linebacker who can push the Davis twins and has more size. Again, they aren’t bad options but we’re looking to take a step forward, not stay the same

- a well-rounded safety who we can trust against the run and in coverage. We rely on Makyle Sanders for this and too often it hasn’t panned out. I like Jaxon Gibbs as a strong safety type, and I like Gaddie as a coverage safety, but they would both really benefit from a safety they could each lean on.

Otherwise, we have guys who should not be this bad on paper. We need some to step up and be playmakers, but otherwise it’s on the coaches to develop and get them in position. We have signed solid recruits, we have landed transfers, we need to make sure we have our best on the field and get the most out of them. We aren’t right now.

GMG24 · December 22, 2020

DL- Colvin (R-SR), Novil (SR), Dotson (R-FR), Rausaw (FR), Pickett (FR), LeBlanc (R-SO) Murphy Twins (RS FR) Believe they got moved to some DL at one point in the season, Devontae McCrae (RS SO)

LB- KD Davis (JR), Tyreke Davis (SR), Jordan Brown (FR), Kevin Wood (SO) Larry Nixon (SO), Taylor Jacobs (RS FR) my favorite but didn't see much action Jacobi Johnson (FR)

DB- Upton Stout (FR), Deshawn Gaddie (RS FR) Cam Johnson (SR) Alex Morris (JR) Gibbs (SO)

The DB room is the most concerning to me, I believe we had multiple DB's opt out bc of COVID, the group is not deep but there is definite skill there, add on the pieces we signed and this defense is not as bad as what was put on the field this year. Being asked to do what some of those guys were asked to do vs Power teams was unfair IMO.

I also feel like we need to know pretty quick which Seniors will stay and use the extra year and which ones are going to graduate and move onto the working world. That would also sway where and how I look. Offensively I would use a transfer on a QB, maybe 1/2 Max OL, the rest DB/OLB types

What do you think?

Edited December 22, 2020 by GMG24

Hunter Green · December 22, 2020

I think any help we get up front is going to make everyone behind them better. We just need guys who can dominate the line of scrimmage. IMHO.

BillySee58 · December 22, 2020

25 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

DL- Colvin (R-SR), Novil (SR), Dotson (R-FR), Rausaw (FR), Pickett (FR), LeBlanc (R-SO) Murphy Twins (RS FR) Believe they got moved to some DL at one point in the season, Devontae McCrae (RS SO)

LB- KD Davis (JR), Tyreke Davis (SR), Jordan Brown (FR), Kevin Wood (SO) Larry Nixon (SO), Taylor Jacobs (RS FR) my favorite but didn't see much action Jacobi Johnson (FR)

DB- Upton Stout (FR), Deshawn Gaddie (RS FR) Cam Johnson (SR) Alex Morris (JR) Gibbs (SO)

The DB room is the most concerning to me, I believe we had multiple DB's opt out bc of COVID, the group is not deep but there is definite skill there, add on the pieces we signed and this defense is not as bad as what was put on the field this year. Being asked to do what some of those guys were asked to do vs Power teams was unfair IMO.

I also feel like we need to know pretty quick which Seniors will stay and use the extra year and which ones are going to graduate and move onto the working world. That would also sway where and how I look. Offensively I would use a transfer on a QB, maybe 1/2 Max OL, the rest DB/OLB types

What do you think?

Littrell said in a recent presser that they basically know who will be coming back and who will be leaving from the senior class already. Tyreke Davis has said publicly that he is coming back but no clue who else.

Offensively the only position I think we really need to look at is QB. Someone who can run the whole skeleton. With Bean it was limited what routes we ran and with Aune he had the ability but, because of his inaccuracy, they couldn’t always trust him.

We have so many guys defensively who had the offer lists and film out of high school, but we aren’t developing or putting them in position to be successful. Add some guys to help out, but ultimately it falls on the coaches because they have the horses to at least be average defensively.

BillySee58 · December 22, 2020

32 minutes ago, Hunter Green said:

I think any help we get up front is going to make everyone behind them better. We just need guys who can dominate the line of scrimmage. IMHO.

I keep thinking back to the 2013 defensive tackles. We had Richard Abbe at the 1-tech using his size to keep the linemen off of Orr and Akunne, and then converted DE Ryan Boutwell at the 3-tech using his quickness and strength to not allow linemen to have clean blocks and releases to the second level. A size/quickness combo like that would be great. We had decent size this year at the 3-tech, but weren’t quick enough off the ball to muck things up for OL.

Wag Tag · December 22, 2020

DE's is going to be the key. (worst have ever seen) The twins are big enough for the jack with the other moving to the standard weak side or strong. They also have good quickness. I also think you could play both at the jack, by rotating them on their side of the field from linebacker to the jack. Also this off season these guys need to add some size maybe 10 to 15 lbs at most positions. Does Norvill stay? I could definitely see an advantage for another year.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Wag Tag

MeanGreenTexan · December 22, 2020

Uptown Stout is gonna be a player for us.... outside of him (and if Novil comes back), I don’t see a lot of guys who would be starting elsewhere.

Of course, we might have 3-4 all conference guys on defense but the scheme is hurting them.

El Paso Eagle · December 22, 2020

19 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Uptown Stout is gonna be a player for us.... outside of him (and if Novil comes back), I don’t see a lot of guys who would be starting elsewhere.

Of course, we might have 3-4 all conference guys on defense but the scheme is hurting them.

The Murphy twins still have a good upside if the coaches find the right positions for them. We have to get more size and strength on the D-line or we will continue to see other teams run wild.

NorthTexasSportsNetwork · December 22, 2020

11 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

The Murphy twins still have a good upside if the coaches find the right positions for them. We have to get more size and strength on the D-line or we will continue to see other teams run wild.

Yep it’s hard when you’re going from OLB to DE and perform at a extremely high level when you’re a freshman.

They definitely have a high ceiling, but transfers or even grad transfers are needed to give this defense either some sort of confidence or veteran leadership.

TheReal_jayD · December 23, 2020

If i am the DC i move to a 4-2-5

DE Jonathan Pickett

DT Dion Novil (if he doesnt stay-Transfer Portal)

DT Dayton LeBlanc

DE Davontae McCrae

LB Tyreke Davis

LB Gabriel Murphy/Grayson Murphy

thanks for enjoying my ted talk. Ill hang up and listen

El Paso Eagle · December 23, 2020

4 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

If i am the DC i move to a 4-2-5

DE Jonathan Pickett

DT Dion Novil (if he doesnt stay-Transfer Portal)

DT Dayton LeBlanc

DE Davontae McCrae

LB Tyreke Davis

LB Gabriel Murphy/Grayson Murphy

CB DeShawn Gaddie

CB Jordan Rucker

Slot Upton Stout

S Alex Morris

S KD Davis

thanks for enjoying my ted talk. Ill hang up and listen

In obvious passing situations get both Twins in at the same time

MeanGreenTexan · December 23, 2020

17 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

If i am the DC i move to a 4-2-5

DE Jonathan Pickett

DT Dion Novil (if he doesnt stay-Transfer Portal)

DT Dayton LeBlanc

DE Davontae McCrae

LB Tyreke Davis

LB Gabriel Murphy/Grayson Murphy

CB DeShawn Gaddie

CB Jordan Rucker

Slot Upton Stout

S Alex Morris

S KD Davis

thanks for enjoying my ted talk. Ill hang up and listen

I’d take McCrae off the field & start one of the twins on the weak side.

Slide KD back to the other LB spot and put Gibbs back at S.

Otherwise, yeah, I’m really starting to buy in on a 4-2-5.

TheReal_jayD · December 23, 2020

2 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I’d take McCrae off the field & start one of the twins on the weak side.

Slide KD back to the other LB spot and put Gibbs back at S.

Otherwise, yeah, I’m really starting to buy in on a 4-2-5.

The reason I moved murphy off dline is because its hard for someone 215 to set the edge. think he can do more damage rushing from lineback spot. KD was recruited at P5 for safety. I would like to see him in an old school ss role

GMG24 · December 23, 2020

2 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Littrell said in a recent presser that they basically know who will be coming back and who will be leaving from the senior class already. Tyreke Davis has said publicly that he is coming back but no clue who else.

Offensively the only position I think we really need to look at is QB. Someone who can run the whole skeleton. With Bean it was limited what routes we ran and with Aune he had the ability but, because of his inaccuracy, they couldn’t always trust him.

We have so many guys defensively who had the offer lists and film out of high school, but we aren’t developing or putting them in position to be successful. Add some guys to help out, but ultimately it falls on the coaches because they have the horses to at least be average defensively.

I completely agree, the last 3 signing classes should NOT have yielded us one of the worst defenses in the country. If our defense is just AVERAGE we win 4 more games, and probably the bowl game. I agree with you.

Wag Tag · December 23, 2020

I also believe we have to go to a 4 man front maybe it would attract Norvil to come back. DE play was by far our biggest weakness, Not sold on the existing guys ( slow).

Texas Stranger · December 23, 2020

1 hour ago, TheReal_jayD said:

The reason I moved murphy off dline is because its hard for someone 215 to set the edge. think he can do more damage rushing from lineback spot. KD was recruited at P5 for safety. I would like to see him in an old school ss role

This. As fun as they are to watch, they have no business playing with their hands on the ground.

El Paso Eagle · December 23, 2020

8 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

I also believe we have to go to a 4 man front maybe it would attract Norvil to come back. DE play was by far our biggest weakness, Not sold on the existing guys ( slow).

DE's as in the Murphy twins? They are playing out of place. When you say "not sold" do you mean on them at this position? Both were named to the All Freshman team.

Wag Tag · December 23, 2020

4 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

DE's as in the Murphy twins? They are playing out of place. When you say "not sold" do you mean on them at this position? Both were named to the All Freshman team.

To small at 215.. this off season they need to get to 225 - 230 and stay at linebacker or a Jack type position would definitely work.

BillySee58 · December 23, 2020

44 minutes ago, GMG24 said:

I completely agree, the last 3 signing classes should NOT have yielded us one of the worst defenses in the country. If our defense is just AVERAGE we win 4 more games, and probably the bowl game. I agree with you.

We added a former P5 DE in Mccrae and two P5 DBs in John Davis and Jordan Rucker (opted out a few games in). We can add three more P5 transfers to the defense but if that’s all the coaches can get out of them, it’s not going to make a difference. We have signed talent, make it work.

glick1980 · December 23, 2020

16 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

To small at 215.. this off season they need to get to 225 - 230 and stay at linebacker or a Jack type position would definitely work.

They are listed at 235 and 238.

Harry · December 23, 2020

The Murphy twins are great talents. They will fill out as they get older. They play nasty and we need more of that. It will be fun to watch them progress.

Wag Tag · December 23, 2020

27 minutes ago, glick1980 said:

They are listed at 235 and 238.

Sorry about that. I still like them at linebacker and I think they could kill it at a Jack position.

BillySee58 · December 23, 2020

33 minutes ago, glick1980 said:

They are listed at 235 and 238.

I think JayD’s implying he doesn’t buy those listings. Which is fine, but I think they’re big enough with an offseason and more practice in that role. Joshua Wheeler played that role pretty well in 16 and 17 and he was listed at 6’3” 229 lbs. Ozougwu and King were similar sized on the 2018 defense which was really good. The issues lie elsewhere IMO.

Edited December 23, 2020 by BillySee58

emmitt01 · December 23, 2020

I don’t think it’s a talent issue, or perhaps really even a scheme issue. It’s a toughness issue.

I don’t mean to imply that they are weak or soft, but they are not “tough” like a Dickey defense or the 2013 defense. Those defenses looked to intimidate and they HIT people...and by hit I don’t mean throwing a shoulder into the offensive player or trying to “blow them up.” They arrived at the ball carrier, wrapped up, and drove through them. And they broke down so as not to overrun the play.

You didn’t break Taylor Casey tackles. Jonas Buckles planted you. If Booger got his hands on you, that is where you ended up. And if Zach Orr met you two yards behind the line of scrimmage you didn’t get a 4 yard gain.

I watched Spring ball in the Dickey era. It was competitive and those who weren’t tough were exposed. By the time we could hit someone in an opposing jersey we brought bad intentions.