When can we financially get out of SL contract

[p_phelps]

He's getting paid a ton, especially when you factor in per win. If he disappoints again next year can we get afford to move on or stuck another year because of the cost. Im not familiar with how many years he has after all the extension. 

[greenminer]

If there is enough will, there will be a way.

[Philip Ferguson]

[greenjoe]

North Texas is so unfamiliar with success, when we sense something that we mistake for success, we overreact and award contract extensions and bonuses when neither is warranted.  The best examples of this is our extended payout of the Coach MacCarney and RV contracts.  I’m a big fan of Coach McCasland but we did it again there.

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

47 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

North Texas is so unfamiliar with success, when we sense something that we mistake for success, we overreact and award contract extensions and bonuses when neither is warranted.  The best examples of this is our extended payout of the Coach MacCarney and RV contracts.  I’m a big fan of Coach McCasland but we did it again there.

McCasland deserved it, and he won a conference championship that was sadly cut short.

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by NorthTexasSportsNetwork

[TheTastyGreek]

14 minutes ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

McCasland deserved it, and he won a conference championship that was sadly cut short.

 

McCarney deserved his, and 15 months later he was fired. Dickey got extended in 2005. Seth Littrell was flying even higher, no pun intended, when he got his money and years. 

No salary or term is going to keep a coach here when bigger opportunities open up. When you put 5 or 6 years on a coach, all you're doing is making sure that if they bomb two straight years, you'd have to pay out another 3 or 4 to get away from them early. Which, of course, we won't ever want to do. 

I don't think McCasland is going to collapse and bottom out... But nobody thought it was coming with any of those guys. Yet we keep not learning the lesson. 

If McCasland wants to move to a power conference and gets an opening? He's gone. And that's exactly what we ought to be hoping for... The sort of success that opens those doors for him. This extension isn't keeping him around one minute longer than his opportunities afford. 

What it MIGHT do, as it has done repeatedly in the past, is make it prohibitively difficult to move on from him if results drop off for an extended period of time. 

Hopefully, all continues and we don't spend any future years regretting this. I hope we see that happen. It would definitely be a first for us. 

[untjim1995]

Any raise you give should always be within the capability of being bought out. Realistically, SL won’t get fired until after next season at the earliest, but there are some places where SL would be fired now, even at the G5 level.

[BillySee58]

1 hour ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

McCasland deserved it, and he won a conference championship that was sadly cut short.

He had already received at least one raise, maybe two PRIOR to the 19-20 season. There was no reason for that. He won 20 games each of his first two seasons but he was already being paid plenty. He was already being paid to win 20 games, at least, given the OOC schedules.

Like @greenjoesaid, we continually act like these guys have to be retained at all costs as soon as there is even a modicum of success. Good coaches can have success here, but as soon as one does we treat him like he’s the only who possibly could. Same for QBs.

[UNTLifer]

Years ago this board was complaining that we needed to up our coach's salaries so we could be competitive in finding good candidates.  Now everyone is complaining that we paid our coaches and gave them a contract.  SMH

[Udomann]

12 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Years ago this board was complaining that we needed to up our coach's salaries so we could be competitive in finding good candidates.  Now everyone is complaining that we paid our coaches and gave them a contract.  SMH

Are we going to blatantly ignore the massive underperforming? I don't think anyone said we are against paying coaches. Just against overpaying bad ones.

[UNTLifer]

1 minute ago, Udomann said:

Are we going to blatantly ignore the massive underperforming? I don't think anyone said we are against paying coaches. Just against overpaying bad ones.

No, but nothing is going to happen this year due to the virus and all the b.s. it has created.  Seth will be here in '21 and we should all hope for a successful season.  But, if you are going to pay bigger salaries and the coaches do underperform, then you better be able to handle a buyout.

I understand people are frustrated, but I don't believe SL has had one foot out the door, like many believe, ever since flirting with the K-State job.  Not winning hurts him either way.  Lose and people at your current school want you gone and you also become less attractive to other schools.

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

2 hours ago, TheTastyGreek said:

McCarney deserved his, and 15 months later he was fired. Dickey got extended in 2005. Seth Littrell was flying even higher, no pun intended, when he got his money and years. 

No salary or term is going to keep a coach here when bigger opportunities open up. When you put 5 or 6 years on a coach, all you're doing is making sure that if they bomb two straight years, you'd have to pay out another 3 or 4 to get away from them early. Which, of course, we won't ever want to do. 

I don't think McCasland is going to collapse and bottom out... But nobody thought it was coming with any of those guys. Yet we keep not learning the lesson. 

If McCasland wants to move to a power conference and gets an opening? He's gone. And that's exactly what we ought to be hoping for... The sort of success that opens those doors for him. This extension isn't keeping him around one minute longer than his opportunities afford. 

What it MIGHT do, as it has done repeatedly in the past, is make it prohibitively difficult to move on from him if results drop off for an extended period of time. 

Hopefully, all continues and we don't spend any future years regretting this. I hope we see that happen. It would definitely be a first for us. 

McCasland has his priorities straight with his team. Wow McCarney won 8 games and a bowl in 1 season! That was a way bigger bonus given than when Mac won the CBI.

Comparing all other coaches to Mac is absolutely ridiculous.

[TheTastyGreek]

53 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Years ago this board was complaining that we needed to up our coach's salaries so we could be competitive in finding good candidates.  Now everyone is complaining that we paid our coaches and gave them a contract.  SMH

15 years ago, our head football coach was among the lowest paid in the Sun Belt, and our assistants were so poorly paid that they were leaving for high school assistant jobs that paid more money. 

That was bad. 

But, there's a big difference between losing a bidding war against notoriously overpaid (checks notes) public high school teachers and what we're doing now. 

If we cut Littrell's pay by $300,000 per year (more than we paid Todd Dodge in any single season, and that was only 10 years ago), he would STILL be the highest paid coach in our conference. 

It's great we aren't losing critical coaches to teaching social studies (no disrespect to the teachers out there that make the world work) anymore. Doesn't mean we have to throw money around like a terminally ill drunk in a strip club every time a coach manages to put a winning season together. 

 

[flyonthewall]

Why does it matter to you guys what Littrell makes.  If he were making 750k a year he would still be underperforming right now based on any metrics.  The good news on top of the bad performance is we now have an administration that will foot the bill for the best and brightest, rather than being the low cost provider.  We can now be the employer of choice on our level, with facilities  and coaching salaries.  There is a cost to doing business, and we are no longer the poorest at our level. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by flyonthewall
Misspelling

[BillySee58]

3 minutes ago, TheTastyGreek said:

If we cut Littrell's pay by $300,000 per year (more than we paid Todd Dodge in any single season, and that was only 10 years ago), he would STILL be the highest paid coach in our conference. 

Years ago this board was complaining that we needed to up our coach's salaries so we could be competitive in finding good candidates. Now everyone is complaining that we pay our head coach to get our ass kicked by coaches making over $1 million a year less than him. SMH

[Udomann]

7 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Years ago this board was complaining that we needed to up our coach's salaries so we could be competitive in finding good candidates. Now everyone is complaining that we pay our head coach to get our ass kicked by coaches making over $1 million a year less than him. SMH

Again... No one wants to pay less. We want to pay the best for the best. Instead we got The Music Man (Trademarked).

We are paying for a Roosevelt and getting a Nixon. That is the issue. Not the money... The person. 

[BillySee58]

6 minutes ago, Udomann said:

Again... No one wants to pay less. We want to pay the best for the best. Instead we got The Music Man (Trademarked).

We are paying for a Roosevelt and getting a Nixon. That is the issue. Not the money... The person. 

Is this supposed to be in agreement or opposition with my point? Because if you’re thinking it’s in opposition, it’s not.

[Udomann]

11 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Is this supposed to be in agreement or opposition with my point? Because if you’re thinking it’s in opposition, it’s not.

I stand corrected. Words are funny sometimes 😜

[akriesman]

51 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Years ago this board was complaining that we needed to up our coach's salaries so we could be competitive in finding good candidates. Now everyone is complaining that we pay our head coach to get our ass kicked by coaches making over $1 million a year less than him. SMH

Yep.   Either there are a some people here with short memories, or we have a lot of the younger generation that has not experienced the university putting a low priority on athletics.    

You can fault the university for paying coaches that underachieve.   But please never fault the university for spending money on athletics to try and be competitive.     I guess some people have forgotten about "old Denton" and the misery that went with it.    Be thankful, at least in that regard.

Edited December 6, 2020 by akriesman

[Wag Tag]

What we pay a coach doesn’t effect how I feel about loses or the record. Mason’s Sr year was a disaster and sign of things to come. He has another loosing record and he will be gone next year. Better get some transfers now!

[El Paso Eagle]

2 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Years ago this board was complaining that we needed to up our coach's salaries so we could be competitive in finding good candidates.  Now everyone is complaining that we paid our coaches and gave them a contract.  SMH

And in a similar note as far as what we all asked for... we also yelled to get out of the Sun Belt, and now that conference is miles ahead of CUSA

[Arkstfan]

I think schools tend to overpay. Let’s say you are Eli Drinkwitz. You are making $750,000 at App State. Of course you accept $4 million a year from Missouri but what are the odds he would have turned down $1.5 million to coach Mizzou? App showed some sense. They elevated OL coach and instead of paying him $750,000 like Drink they paid him $425,000 more than tripling his salary as OL coach.

How many FCS coaches making $250,000 would turn down $400,000 to coach an FBS?

As a friend says ADs are playing with the house’s money and don’t pay the salary the coach has the leverage to demand but just throw out a number that is intended to convince fans they are serious. 

[TIgreen01]

11 hours ago, flyonthewall said:

Why does it matter to you guys what Littrell makes.  If he were making 750k a year he would still be underperforming right now based on any metrics.  The good news on top of the bad performance is we now have an administration that will foot the bill for the best and brightest, rather than being the low cost provider.  We can now be the employer of choice on our level, with facilities  and coaching salaries.  There is a cost to doing business, and we are no longer the poorest at our level. 

The reason is Todd Dodge and Tony Benford.  We weren’t paying Dodge much, but were continually floated the rumor we couldn’t afford to get out of that deal.  We kept him around for 4 LONG years when it was obvious in year 1 that he was out of his depth.  Same thing with Benford.  Two games into his tenure it was OBVIOUS that we made a bad hire.  He was kept for all 5 years of his contract because, again, we are told, we can’t afford to get out of the deal.

Maybe the reasons given and rumors were false.  Maybe we could have afforded to get out of the deals and there were other reasons we kept both of those guys, even though they were putting up record setting seasons for futility.  The sum is that everyone here sees Litrell’s contract and naturally assumes we can’t afford to get out from under it.  We did buyout Mac, but Littrell’s deal is at a level beyond his.  
 

It’s a great sign that NT is able to pay what we’re paying Littrell and his staff.  If it, also, signals an ability to afford to move on a buyout if necessary, that’s even better.  Unfortunately that means someone has to fail for us to find out, and it sucks to root for that.  Here’s hoping Littrell is able to turn it around here.

[RBP79]

So....question is...when can his, Seth, contract be bought out if he craters next season?? I hope he wins every game next year but what are the options?

 

 

 

 

[El Paso Eagle]

10 hours ago, RBP79 said:

So....question is...when can his, Seth, contract be bought out if he craters next season?? I hope he wins every game next year but what are the options?

 

 

 

 

It looks like his buyout starting this season was 4.275M

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by El Paso Eagle