Just the Truth....

[Aquila_Viridis]

With our 'brand recognition' the only way we could recruit a team full of winners is to hire Nick Saban away from Alabama. 

[Wag Tag]

La Tech like SMU has done a great job on transfers. We have done a below average job. 

[GreenFlag]

The obvious answer. 

[UNTLifer]

7 hours ago, GRN-WHT said:

Seriously? Quick schedule check- including games that were canceled- ESPN2, ESPN, ESPN2, ABC, PAC-12 Net, FS1, FS1.

Yep, seriously. The last time I watch CO on television was back when they were nationally ranked. 

[UNTexas]

I think a pretty easy reason to see why we have trouble recruiting is perception. My daughters always tell me when they wear NT gear kids always say NT sucks. Can't really argue with that. Whenever we have a chance to change that perception we go ahead and start losing again. Example, beating the crap out of an SEC school and have a play that will be rerun for ages (Peter Pan). So, after that we started losing and didn't capitalize. 

Perception of the entire university locally is bad. The high school kids turn their noses up at NT. Example, one of my good friends daughter's was applying to colleges. I told her to check out NT. She just said, "uh, no." It starts will the perception locally of NT. I don't get those responses outside this region. For instance, in El Paso, Austin, or Oklahoma people talk to me about what a cool place Denton is and how great the music is. 

It isn't shocking to me when kids go somewhere else. But I can't fathom going to say Ruston, LA vs Denton, TX. As someone who doesn't sit at home much I seriously can't fathom something like that. I get it if the university is just flat out better academically though. 

I really don't know what NT can do to fix its reputation as a university and athletically. After so many decades of disrepair. Improving perception will help recruiting more than anything. 

Edited December 5, 2020 by UNTexas

[Pavlovs Eagle]

18 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

Ya think Coastal Carolina is getting their money's worth from their football coach?  And they've only been playing FBS football for what, 3 years in the Sun Belt?  18th in the country with a 9-0 record!!!   And Brigham Young is going to play Coastal "at" Coastal this weekend?  That's in friggin' Conway, SC for cripes sake!!!!

119

Coastal Carolina

S-Belt

Jamey Chadwell

$375,000

$56,034

$318,966

$319,866

$56,034

$758,204

4 Years as a FBS Team and they're top 25 ranked and College Gameday is at their stadium this morning.  If they beat the Raging Mormons of BYU today they'll probably well on their way to a NY6 game.

[SilverEagle]

20 hours ago, Monkeypox said:

Okay, then.....

First of all, I think we underestimate the number of completely subjective personal reasons why kids choose to go to the schools they do. If I had based my college decision purely on the numbers, I wouldn't have stayed/ended up at UNT, and I had less scholarship offers than many football players get.

So boiling it down to objective football reasons.

We don't win, we don't play on TV, we aren't popular in our own area/region, and we don't get players drafted. These are things that matter if you're going to school to play football. As others have pointed out, WINNING is the real thing. You win, and the other stuff comes. But you can't win for 1 or two seasons. If we had the record that La Tech had over the last 10(or better 30) years, we'd be a lot further along, because only AFTER that would our location and girls and coaches and everything else start to come into play. We're selling our program from BEHIND everyone but the bottom of the barrel FBS teams.

Just on the success and draft front....

 

La Tech (since 2010):

Overall record: 83-54. Been to 7 bowl games and won 6.

Had 16 players drafted into the NFL.

 

UNT (since 2010):

Overall record: 56-77. Been to 4 bowl games and won 1.

Had 0 players drafted into the NFL.

 

This record actually looks BETTER by Dodge-ing most of the worst period in recent UNT football. Their WORST coaches in the last 30 years(Bicknell, Dooley) have .453 and .459 WP.  Meanwhile, we have only had two coaches better than that in the same timeframe (Nelson in 1990 and Littrell currently). 

 

UTSA (since starting football in 2011)

Overall record: 52-65. Been to 1 bowl and lost.

Had 2 players drafted into the NFL

 

Southern Miss went 16-17 straight years in CUSA without a losing season. This will be their 4th losing season since 1994. 

And then there is the "what the hell is wrong with these people" factor. The first pubic utterance of this (near as I can remember) was by Coach Bob Tyler right after the Okla St. game that was played in the Cotton Bowl. I think I read this in the DRC, but I'm not sure. It seems that there was a C&W event put on by the University right after the game. Someone told Coach Tyler that they heard that only a paltry number of people showed up for the event. His response was "sounds like another North Texas football game broke out over there".  He then went on to wonder what it would take to get people to show up to games. He mused that North Texas has a very large alumni base, it is a well respected institution of higher learning that is located in a football crazy state, AND it has the best Band in the Southwest. 

He then said, basically, "what the hell is wrong with those people"? I'm sure there have been other head coaches since then who have wondered the same thing. Most notably D.D. and Dan McCarney. 

I remember when Corkey Nelson was hired. I knew that he was once the DL coach at North Texas under Rod Rust, so my first comment was "well, at least he knows what he's getting into". I suppose that since Dodge spent some time as OC under Dennis Parker, he also knew what he was getting into. 

When I was attending NT I worked at several part-time jobs. One of them was at a convenience store. One evening I was sitting behind the counter studying for a test when a local assistant coach came in. This guy happened to be particularly "chatty" so he asked me where I was attending school. When I told him he said "Oh, you go to school with all those weirdos" .  I smiled and said "yep"..... all the while thinking "but at least they aren't as weird as you".

Anyway, I wonder if that perception of NT still lingers amongst the rank and file of Texas High School coaches.

 

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

7 hours ago, UNTexas said:

I think a pretty easy reason to see why we have trouble recruiting is perception. My daughters always tell me when they wear NT gear kids always say NT sucks. Can't really argue with that. Whenever we have a chance to change that perception we go ahead and start losing again. Example, beating the crap out of an SEC school and have a play that will be rerun for ages (Peter Pan). So, after that we started losing and didn't capitalize. 

Perception of the entire university locally is bad. The high school kids turn their noses up at NT. Example, one of my good friends daughter's was applying to colleges. I told her to check out NT. She just said, "uh, no." It starts will the perception locally of NT. I don't get those responses outside this region. For instance, in El Paso, Austin, or Oklahoma people talk to me about what a cool place Denton is and how great the music is. 

It isn't shocking to me when kids go somewhere else. But I can't fathom going to say Ruston, LA vs Denton, TX. As someone who doesn't sit at home much I seriously can't fathom something like that. I get it if the university is just flat out better academically though. 

I really don't know what NT can do to fix its reputation as a university and athletically. After so many decades of disrepair. Improving perception will help recruiting more than anything. 

The first paragraph is completely correct. It’s sad what NT has done to the area losing wise.

 

[Big Z]

On 12/5/2020 at 5:05 PM, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

The first paragraph is completely correct. It’s sad what NT has done to the area losing wise.

 

I wear UNT stuff all the time and many UNT alumni’s I meet always say I’m brave to wear that because they wouldn’t. A lot of them never understood why we kept Fouts Field so long when local high school teams had better stadiums during that time. 
 

What bothers me is when I went to the Denton Square this season to meet an old college friend and nobody had the UNT/SMU game on except Sweetwater. The square was busy with weird liberals everywhere or somebody preaching something. I felt like it’s trying to be a mini 6th street. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Big Z

[Monkeypox]

Every time I meet another UNT alumnus here in DFW, they’re surprised I follow the football team. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Monkeypox

[Big Z]

4 minutes ago, Monkeypox said:

Every time I meet someone another UNT alumnus here in DFW, they’re surprised I follow the football team. 

Same 

[UNTLifer]

Good Lord, we have the freaking discussion every year.  Invite fellow alums up to Denton for a game, educate people on the great things about North Texas, but as long as we wallow in this crap it will always be here.  

[Rudy]

On 12/4/2020 at 3:35 PM, DeepGreen said:

Ya think Coastal Carolina is getting their money's worth from their football coach?  And they've only been playing FBS football for what, 3 years in the Sun Belt?  18th in the country with a 9-0 record!!!   And Brigham Young is going to play Coastal "at" Coastal this weekend?  That's in friggin' Conway, SC for cripes sake!!!!

119

Coastal Carolina

S-Belt

Jamey Chadwell

$375,000

$56,034

$318,966

$319,866

$56,034

$758,204

 

10 hours ago, Pavlovs Eagle said:

4 Years as a FBS Team and they're top 25 ranked and College Gameday is at their stadium this morning.  If they beat the Raging Mormons of BYU today they'll probably well on their way to a NY6 game.

Well, Coastal Carolina just beat BYU in what was probably the best game of 2020. They have only been playing FBS since 2017. They have to compete with an SEC school and a potential national champion every year. They just hosted gameday. They are ranked in the SBC, which to be honest, at this point we should probably consider trying to go back to. They are about to host the conference championship game.  They were able to recruit and coach a line that is big enough, strong enough, and played well enough to push around BYU and get penetration. They had some of the best clock management that I've seen in years. Their stadium, which is miles away from the Myrtle Beach was rocking on a Saturday night. Their stadium was a freaking watermelon field just 15 years ago. 

 

If it's possible for Coastal Carolina, then why the hell is in not possible for UNT?  

 

It's possible here, we just need to find whatever the cancer that is holding us back, and eliminate it. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Rudy

[GrandGreen]

I have met the enemy, and it is us 

There is absolutely nothing to despair about NT.   Yet, we have a cadre of alums bemoaning NT's statue among other like institutions.

I went to NT over UT and others because at the time it was lauded as having the best accounting department. 

By the comments of many alums, one would think the only reason anyone goes to NT is a music education or that they just could not get into a more respected university,

NT alums if you are not proud of your school, then no wonder NT perception problems continue.  

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

20 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Good Lord, we have the freaking discussion every year.  Invite fellow alums up to Denton for a game, educate people on the great things about North Texas, but as long as we wallow in this crap it will always be here.  

Lol I do that, and we usually lose because I invite them to a big game, and poof gone.

Now it’s time for the sports (mainly football) to step it up.

[Arkstfan]

I'm going to give my two pennies on Coastal.

I was very happy the Sun Belt added them. Much happier than when we added UTA, TXST or GaSt. They had too good of a history across too many sports. They were above average FCS and arguably superior to Liberty in football (they were dead even head-to-head but Coastal had done more post-season). They were better in hoops and far far superior to anyone we could add in baseball. 

They had their fecal matter together. I was on their board and they were like it would be good for us in hoops and baseball but we can't swing it in football. 

I was convinced it would work because they had always risen to whatever challenge they faced and they had a great advantage. They were in a small media market and the nearest FBS schools (Clemson and South Carolina) were too far away for local sports guys to get blessing from editor and station managers to go cover them regularly. Small market TV guys want their mug on camera to build their reel to get better jobs. That means Coastal is the biggest sports story in the market for local guys to cover.  It builds your fan base and kids can come to town and the local TV station is talking about Coastal. It adds up.

[UNTLifer]

5 hours ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

Lol I do that, and we usually lose because I invite them to a big game, and poof gone.

Now it’s time for the sports (mainly football) to step it up.

Invite them to a basketball game

[untjim1995]

The better question is why would you have to invite an alum to go to a game? The answer is what your problem is. By and large, about 2% of UNT Alumni care. 2%. Even with the major upgrade at AD, we have about 2% that give back.

Thats not fixable, unless you beat somebody these alumni actually care about, which are P5 names. Beat Arkansas, get more coverage, attention, and dollars than ever before, then lose to LT, ODU, UAB, and get prison-raped by Utah State in a bowl game. Even worse, get prison-raped by schools that our alumni actually follow and root for. Never should a bodybag game be scheduled with Texas, A&M, OU, or LSU.  Schedule better. Beat people that we care about at home, like SMU, Baylor. TCU, Tech, or UH. Play series with Big XII and BiG schools or teams from the northern part of the ACC or from the PAC 12. Just avoid bodybag games at Southern Powerhouses, while working to get some of the lower P5s that aren’t powerhouses to play you in a home-and-home series. It’s the only way to have a chance to become anything important to UNT Alumni, DFW fans, and especially Dfw media.

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

5 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

The better question is why would you have to invite an alum to go to a game? The answer is what your problem is. By and large, about 2% of UNT Alumni care. 2%. Even with the major upgrade at AD, we have about 2% that give back.

Thats not fixable, unless you beat somebody these alumni actually care about, which are P5 names. Beat Arkansas, get more coverage, attention, and dollars than ever before, then lose to LT, ODU, UAB, and get prison-raped by Utah State in a bowl game. Even worse, get prison-raped by schools that our alumni actually follow and root for. Never should a bodybag game be scheduled with Texas, A&M, OU, or LSU.  Schedule better. Beat people that we care about at home, like SMU, Baylor. TCU, Tech, or UH. Play series with Big XII and BiG schools or teams from the northern part of the ACC or from the PAC 12. Just avoid bodybag games at Southern Powerhouses, while working to get some of the lower P5s that aren’t powerhouses to play you in a home-and-home series. It’s the only way to have a chance to become anything important to UNT Alumni, DFW fans, and especially Dfw media.

I’ve brought tons of my friends to both football and basketball big games, and every time, minus Army 2017 and WKU BB 2020, have we lost. Around half of them are alums and the other are just friends that attended other schools and wanted to see some UNT. 
Each year the amount I bring gets smaller because about each time we either lose in heartbreak or get slaughtered.

It’s hard to attract people when you can’t win the big games.

Edited December 7, 2020 by NorthTexasSportsNetwork

[untjim1995]

7 hours ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

I’ve brought tons of my friends to both football and basketball big games, and every time, minus Army 2017 and WKU BB 2020, have we lost. Around half of them are alums and the other are just friends that attended other schools and wanted to see some UNT. 
Each year the amount I bring gets smaller because about each time we either lose in heartbreak or get slaughtered.

It’s hard to attract people when you can’t win the big games.

And the older you get, the less time and interest you’ll take in trying to get others to go because you get tired of having to convince someone to come watch us play teams they don’t care about either. And playing in stadium/arenas that are about a third full embarrassed you when these outside fans (not alumni) come from big time schools and think this looks like high school attendance.

[PlummMeanGreen]

On 12/6/2020 at 3:41 PM, GrandGreen said:

I have met the enemy, and it is us 

There is absolutely nothing to despair about NT.   Yet, we have a cadre of alums bemoaning NT's statue among other like institutions.

I went to NT over UT and others because at the time it was lauded as having the best accounting department. 

By the comments of many alums, one would think the only reason anyone goes to NT is a music education or that they just could not get into a more respected university,

NT alums if you are not proud of your school, then no wonder NT perception problems continue.  

GrandGreen, I have a 1’st cousin who has a CPA office in Limestone County (Groesbeck/Mexia) & he’s the typical diehard Aggie.  He took in the whole experience in Aggieland as he & his older brother were both in the Corp (in different eras) when it was very large in numbers. 

We have an annual Plummer family reunion/cemetery decoration day at our Texas pioneer cemetery every Memorial Day weekend. At these gatherings, my Aggie cousin (Ricky) told me he always hires UNT accounting major grads every chance he gets.  He just cannot say enough nice things about UNT. I give Rick a hard time about TAMU getting all that Permanent University Fund “chicken salad” while the rest of us get the chicken caca.  All in good fun, of course. 

 

GMG

Edited December 8, 2020 by PlummMeanGreen

[greenminer]

On 12/4/2020 at 10:59 AM, Monkeypox said:

I don't think it's that hard to tell why recruits don't come here. Please don't make me go through the list.

 

 

 

 

 

They seem to be coming here, IMO.

[southsideguy]

I don't get Denton, ok they want a winner will they show up......no not really.   Look at the basketball team they have been winning and are good team to watch.  Still even with Covid the crowd or lack of crowd is disappointing.   If this team was located playing in El Paso or albuquerque it would be hard to find a ticket.  In Denton you can still get great seats.   We ask the teams to win but still fail to show up.   

[Big Z]

37 minutes ago, southsideguy said:

I don't get Denton, ok they want a winner will they show up......no not really.   Look at the basketball team they have been winning and are good team to watch.  Still even with Covid the crowd or lack of crowd is disappointing.   If this team was located playing in El Paso or albuquerque it would be hard to find a ticket.  In Denton you can still get great seats.   We ask the teams to win but still fail to show up.   

Too much sports competition in the DFW area.

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

2 hours ago, southsideguy said:

Still even with Covid the crowd or lack of crowd is disappointing.