Just the Truth....

[Side Show Joe]

LA Tech is in the middle of a rebuild too: Star players RB Henderson, WR Hardy, and LSU transfer Campbell all opted out of the season to focus on the NFL draft. In fact, LA Tech lost 9 of their 11 starters from last season's offense, but we still couldn't stop them on our home field. Both LT offensive tackles were back ups, with the left tackle being a true freshman. LA Tech was starting a back up at running back and at one of the wide receiver spots too. They also lost half of their defense from last season and start a true freshman on that side of the ball too. The kid has 72 tackles through 8 games.

Holtz is managing the crisis better: I state these facts because some will point to our "players lost for the season" or "youth being thrown into games" or "COVID" as reasons for our failures, and those issues are not exclusive to UNT. Other programs, like LA Tech are facing the same problems. They are just addressing them better. Today's game was a preview of our future and it does not look good if we continue down our current path.

If the rankings are true, than our players are not the problem: Our more recent recruiting classes have been pointed to as a reason we will have a breakout season next year. But, tonight against LA Tech and their young players from lower ranked recruiting classes, they got handled on our home field. I see athleticism, size, strength, and speed in our young players. What I do not see is selflessness, toughness, discipline, good technique, or focus, and that is a reflection of our coaching.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Side Show Joe

[MeanGreenDan]

[PlummMeanGreen]

TAKE SOMINEX OR READ AN EPISTLE...

So we’ve been getting high marks for our last 2 UNT recruiting classes with maybe a 3’rd one on the way?  So what has LaTech’s classes in the same period of time been ranked?  Like most all of you, I tend to look at results on the field.

I talked to Harry about La Tech vs UNT recruiting 10 or so years ago.  They were kicking our ass with favored Texas HS recruits then, but most of us fans/alums didn’t know back then that we had a HFC who wouldn’t leave the Denton city limits to recruit.  (You can’t make this stuff up).

I know I mentioned to Harry back then this:  “why don’t we hire LaTech’s best recruiter whose kicking our ass in our own backyard with Texas HS recruits, offer him  a significant pay raise & just hire the guy?” 
Of course, nothing like that ever took place then or even present day.  .

Can most agree that  LaTech recruits didn’t take their game to Ruston because they fell in love with the Ruston night life or some Cajun Queen?  (Are they all majoring in Tech’s fine engineering program)? 
   •••With Texas Women’s University & UNT, there are more co-eds in Denton, Texas, America, than at UT-Austin or Texas A&M-College Station, so it’s not for a lack of hot chicks in Little D.  We have a superb academic offering for a future recruit to Major in;  we know our athletic venues in the MG Village are lights out where even across CUSA opponent’s fan who’ve seen them in person most all agree & say “UNT has the best facilities in the conference.”

So fill in the blanks—Why can’t this football program be sold to where we can emulate schools like (forget SMU);  yet schools like Top 25 Coastal?  (I never knew that school even existed until about a year or so ago).

😇Forgive me--I’m just as pissed as the rest of you & only hope the 7‘th (pre-Little Big Horn) is in the way. We need to be putting a 10 season winning streak together vs “the Little Red & Blue Engine That Could.” 😳

GMG!

🤢 Seth Littrell is not on everyone’s Christmas shopping list right now & as an armchair QB I’ve questioned some of his M.O., too;  but we need the guy to succeed in all phases because I don’t think he’s going anywhere else soon. •••Personally, I think he’s been in the doldrums since he turned down a Big 12 job to stay in Denton & if so, he needs to forget that & just bloom where planted.  His Oklahoma family ties helped get an Indoor Practice Facility jump-started & their pockets are still deep from all I hear, so we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water, either.  Yes, SL still needs to win & even put some winning seasons together since my group was the last to see 4 consecutive above .500 seasons in Denton. We all deserve  better than even that.  GMG!

Edited December 4, 2020 by PlummMeanGreen

[SilverEagle]

2 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

TAKE SOMINEX OR READ AN EPISTLE...

So we’ve been getting high marks for our last 2 UNT recruiting classes with maybe a 3’rd one on the way?  So what has LaTech’s classes in the same period of time been ranked?  Like most all of you, I tend to look at results on the field.

I talked to Harry about La Tech vs UNT recruiting 10 or so years ago.  They were kicking our ass with favored Texas HS recruits then, but most of us fans/alums didn’t know back then that we had a HFC who wouldn’t leave the Denton city limits to recruit.  (You can’t make this stuff up).

I know I mentioned to Harry back then this:  “why don’t we hire LaTech’s best recruiter whose kicking our ass in our own backyard with Texas HS recruits, offer him  a significant pay raise & just hire the guy?” 
Of course, nothing like that ever took place then or even present day.  .

Can most agree that  LaTech recruits didn’t take their game to Ruston because they fell in love with the Ruston night life or some Cajun Queen?  (Are they all majoring in Tech’s fine engineering program)? 
   •••With Texas Women’s University & UNT, there are more co-eds in Denton, Texas, America, than at UT-Austin or Texas A&M-College Station, so it’s not for a lack of hot chicks in Little D.  We have a superb academic offering for a future recruit to Major in;  we know our athletic venues in the MG Village are lights out where even across CUSA opponent’s fan who’ve seen them in person most all agree & say “UNT has the best facilities in the conference.”

So fill in the blanks—Why can’t this football program be sold to where we can emulate schools like ..... "fill in the black here".
 

I would love to talk to recruits who backed out of their commitments and went to other schools who were on the same level (program funding or otherwise) as North Texas (La Tech being a good example) and ask them what was involved in their decision to go elsewhere. I would also like to talk to former coaches who moved on (not the ones that were fired) and were successful after leaving North Texas, and ask them (if it was the case) why North Texas was a harder sell for them when they were out there trying to recruit to North Texas. I would want to know, not only why recruits decommitted, but I would want to know about recruits that didn't even want to talk to the recruiters and/or only gave them a minimal listen.

I would want to know from these people who were trying to sell North Texas what was the common reason these recruits went somewhere else. I've wanted to know this for years. It would make for an excellent project for someone(s) working on a marketing degree at NT. 

I would be glad to make some of those phone calls.....no charge.

[Big Z]

5 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

I would love to talk to recruits who backed out of their commitments and went to other schools who were on the same level (program funding or otherwise) as North Texas (La Tech being a good example) and ask them what was involved in their decision to go elsewhere. I would also like to talk to former coaches who moved on (not the ones that were fired) and were successful after leaving North Texas, and ask them (if it was the case) why North Texas was a harder sell for them when they were out there trying to recruit to North Texas. I would want to know, not only why recruits decommitted, but I would want to know about recruits that didn't even want to talk to the recruiters and/or only gave them a minimal listen.

I would want to know from these people who were trying to sell North Texas what was the common reason these recruits went somewhere else. I've wanted to know this for years. It would make for an excellent project for someone(s) working on a marketing degree at NT. 

I would be glad to make some of those phone calls.....no charge.

I can tell you we lost one good recruit who was inches from committing here that decided not to because of tv exposure. The team he committed to was in a better conference with more nationally televised games. 

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

6 minutes ago, Big Z said:

I can tell you we lost one good recruit who was inches from committing here that decided not to because of tv exposure. The team he committed to was in a better conference with more nationally televised games. 

Who and when was this?

[SilverEagle]

14 minutes ago, Big Z said:

I can tell you we lost one good recruit who was inches from committing here that decided not to because of tv exposure. The team he committed to was in a better conference with more nationally televised games. 

Quote

I would love to talk to recruits who backed out of their commitments and went to other schools who were on the same level (program funding or otherwise) as North Texas (La Tech being a good example) and ask them what was involved in their decision to go elsewhere. 

Your example doesn't fit my criterion. I want to know why players went somewhere else when it was a situation of "all things being equal".

[Monkeypox]

I don't think it's that hard to tell why recruits don't come here. Please don't make me go through the list.

 

 

 

 

 

[Big Z]

1 hour ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

Who and when was this?

Brendon Lewis

 

[Travis]

Our coach is overpaid... we can do so much better with the resources we now have.  So so many other coaches are doing far better with far less.  

[NorthTexasSportsNetwork]

25 minutes ago, Big Z said:

Brendon Lewis

 

Oh yeah from Melissa. Went to CU

[UNTLifer]

27 minutes ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

Oh yeah from Melissa. Went to CU

Can't tell you the last time I saw a Colorado game televised.

[DeepGreen]

2 hours ago, Monkeypox said:

I don't think it's that hard to tell why recruits don't come here. Please don't make me go through the list.

 

 

 

 

 

Please do.

[untjim1995]

1 minute ago, DeepGreen said:

Please do.

It all starts with APATHY... it’s impossible to defeat

[MGNation92]

3 minutes ago, DeepGreen said:

Please do.

Easiest one.

We don't win

[untjim1995]

Just now, MGNation92 said:

Easiest one.

We don't win

And when we do, nobody outside of the few thousand diehards care...

[GRN-WHT]

34 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Can't tell you the last time I saw a Colorado game televised.

Seriously? Quick schedule check- including games that were canceled- ESPN2, ESPN, ESPN2, ABC, PAC-12 Net, FS1, FS1.

[El Paso Eagle]

11 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

It all starts with APATHY... it’s impossible to defeat

Great point. Looking at our history the University and the local community are not known for their support of UNT Athletics. I am by no means an "expert" on recruiting, but I have been told that we are hit pretty hard by those who recruit players from our area as to our lack of support. HC  after HC we often wonder why a player would not come to UNT, I think this is a big part.

Additionally, for years we had a terrible reputation with Texas High School coaches - hopefully this is improving. 

[El Paso Eagle]

49 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Can't tell you the last time I saw a Colorado game televised.

Bottom line if a young man wants to play P5 and has a chance this will always be a hard sell. Hell, look at Kansas. 

[untjim1995]

8 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Great point. Looking at our history the University and the local community are not known for their support of UNT Athletics. I am by no means an "expert" on recruiting, but I have been told that we are hit pretty hard by those who recruit players from our area as to our lack of support. HC  after HC we often wonder why a player would not come to UNT, I think this is a big part.

Additionally, for years we had a terrible reputation with Texas High School coaches - hopefully this is improving. 

It is improving--the fact is that SL has built in-roads here. But, just like with Todd Dodge, those contacts in TX HS circles only go so far if your on-field coaching is terrible. Again, without Graham Harrell and Mason Fine, SL looks lost. And that's no even counting the defensive side of the ball, which these Leach disciples rarely care about.

At UNT, we can't ever seem to get this right. Dickey was a conservative coach, with no creativity at all offensively, just running out the clock against anyone he viewed as better than us. Then we get Dodge, as he has no concept of coaching defense at this level at all. So we hire McCarney and we go right back to DickeyBall, but with worse recruiting with amazing facilities to recruit to. And now SL, we go back to DodgeBall, albeit much more successful than Dodge, but a long way from being considered successful. Watch, we will fire SL after next season and hire someone who runs a completely different style of offense than the players we have here and we will post about how improved the defense is from the previous regime. So predictable what circles back around here.

That said, if Tulsa is as broke as everyone says they are, if I'm the UNT 17 and Wren Baker, I'm going after Phillip Montgomery. Dude is making things happen at a situation like ours used to be in the Fouts/SBC days. We can give him the raise that Tulsa might not be able to give IF we are going to keep trying to compete at this level we are currently spending at.

[El Paso Eagle]

Good information

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/coach

 

[El Paso Eagle]

4 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Good information

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/coach

 

Think this man might be gone after this season

 

Another bargain. 3.7 buy-out

Edited December 4, 2020 by El Paso Eagle

[Monkeypox]

Okay, then.....

First of all, I think we underestimate the number of completely subjective personal reasons why kids choose to go to the schools they do. If I had based my college decision purely on the numbers, I wouldn't have stayed/ended up at UNT, and I had less scholarship offers than many football players get.

So boiling it down to objective football reasons.

We don't win, we don't play on TV, we aren't popular in our own area/region, and we don't get players drafted. These are things that matter if you're going to school to play football. As others have pointed out, WINNING is the real thing. You win, and the other stuff comes. But you can't win for 1 or two seasons. If we had the record that La Tech had over the last 10(or better 30) years, we'd be a lot further along, because only AFTER that would our location and girls and coaches and everything else start to come into play. We're selling our program from BEHIND everyone but the bottom of the barrel FBS teams.

Just on the success and draft front....

 

La Tech (since 2010):

Overall record: 83-54. Been to 7 bowl games and won 6.

Had 16 players drafted into the NFL.

 

UNT (since 2010):

Overall record: 56-77. Been to 4 bowl games and won 1.

Had 0 players drafted into the NFL.

 

This record actually looks BETTER by Dodge-ing most of the worst period in recent UNT football. Their WORST coaches in the last 30 years(Bicknell, Dooley) have .453 and .459 WP.  Meanwhile, we have only had two coaches better than that in the same timeframe (Nelson in 1990 and Littrell currently). 

 

UTSA (since starting football in 2011)

Overall record: 52-65. Been to 1 bowl and lost.

Had 2 players drafted into the NFL

 

Southern Miss went 16-17 straight years in CUSA without a losing season. This will be their 4th losing season since 1994. 

[DeepGreen]

Ya think Coastal Carolina is getting their money's worth from their football coach?  And they've only been playing FBS football for what, 3 years in the Sun Belt?  18th in the country with a 9-0 record!!!   And Brigham Young is going to play Coastal "at" Coastal this weekend?  That's in friggin' Conway, SC for cripes sake!!!!

119

Coastal Carolina

S-Belt

Jamey Chadwell

$375,000

$56,034

$318,966

$319,866

$56,034

$758,204

[El Paso Eagle]

1 hour ago, Monkeypox said:

Okay, then.....

First of all, I think we underestimate the number of completely subjective personal reasons why kids choose to go to the schools they do. If I had based my college decision purely on the numbers, I wouldn't have stayed/ended up at UNT, and I had less scholarship offers than many football players get.

So boiling it down to objective football reasons.

We don't win, we don't play on TV, we aren't popular in our own area/region, and we don't get players drafted. These are things that matter if you're going to school to play football. As others have pointed out, WINNING is the real thing. You win, and the other stuff comes. But you can't win for 1 or two seasons. If we had the record that La Tech had over the last 10(or better 30) years, we'd be a lot further along, because only AFTER that would our location and girls and coaches and everything else start to come into play. We're selling our program from BEHIND everyone but the bottom of the barrel FBS teams.

Just on the success and draft front....

 

La Tech (since 2010):

Overall record: 83-54. Been to 7 bowl games and won 6.

Had 16 players drafted into the NFL.

 

UNT (since 2010):

Overall record: 56-77. Been to 4 bowl games and won 1.

Had 0 players drafted into the NFL.

 

This record actually looks BETTER by Dodge-ing most of the worst period in recent UNT football. Their WORST coaches in the last 30 years(Bicknell, Dooley) have .453 and .459 WP.  Meanwhile, we have only had two coaches better than that in the same timeframe (Nelson in 1990 and Littrell currently). 

 

UTSA (since starting football in 2011)

Overall record: 52-65. Been to 1 bowl and lost.

Had 2 players drafted into the NFL

 

Southern Miss went 16-17 straight years in CUSA without a losing season. This will be their 4th losing season since 1994. 

Good points. Sometimes it's not as fun to ask (and truthfully hear) "Why" UNT, not "Why Not". Bottom line is we are not a good program. It seems as if they answer on how to fix it is not an easy. Have better facilities and higher salaries changed it? A lot of people a lot smarter than me when it comes to athletics, at least I hope so, have not been able to make the needed systematic changes. How do re "rebrand" the UNT Football program to actually make a difference. Something needs to dramatically change to actually reshape the culture.