Let's Talk Salary $$$

greenb.o.g. · October 15, 2020

First, allow me to preface my comments by stating that I don't think North Texas should fire Seth Littrell this year. Personally, I don't think any college coaches should be fired this year because of the whole COVID thing. Too many unforeseen circumstances have played havoc with this year.

With that being said, the performance of the team both last year and this year has been nothing short of horrendous. Let's delve a little deeper.

According to the USA Today coaching database (https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/coach), Seth Littrell is the sixth highest paid head football coach among the Group of 5 schools (minus the private schools which are not required to report financial compensation). The schools that pay their head football coaches more are South Florida, Central Florida, Navy, Cincinnati, and Houston. Boise State's head football coach, Bryan Harsin, is tied with Seth Littrell at sixth place.

Some folks may shrug this information off as just the price of doing business, and I would agree with them. However, what I can not tolerate is the laissez-faire attitude around some in this fanbase that don't see the performance on the field, cobbled together with the salary of the head coach, as a major problem. Somehow, we should all just be happy to go to game.

Seth Littrell makes $1.85 million a year. That is far more than any other North Texas coach has ever received. And as noted, it is sixth highest among peer institutions. With that kind of salary, together with the investments that have been made in the athletic department over the past decade, expectations have been raised! North Texas is simply not getting any return on the investment. In fact, I would argue that North Texas is not only losing money, but losing prestige as well.

Yeah, I know, I know. 'Welcome to North Texas.' 'It's been this way forever.' Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Seth Littrell better turn this crap around.

meangreenbob · October 15, 2020

We can get the same results on the field by paying a coach 450-500k per year, maybe even less. And lets say we go out and hire a loser and he screws us around and wins instead.......well, we just fire his ass because losing is what we do best and just think we’re out far less financially!

Edited October 15, 2020 by meangreenbob

SigmaGreen · October 15, 2020

I’m not saying this is the guy to go and get but to watch this season. Joe Moglia of Coastal Carolina. $1M contract, currently 4-0. Beat a bottom Big 12 school and what was the only ranked team in the Sunbelt. I will be curious how they finish the year with App. State and Liberty

MeanGreenFan94 · October 15, 2020

He should be fired at the end of the season if we continue this downward trend. The inevitable part of his departure is just being delayed and a turnaround is even further out the longer he stays. *see Benford

No energy on this team from coaching staff to players and keeping Seth only leaves North Texas stuck in the mud. I have seen enough. Bring in a new up and coming coach and let him grow at a lower salary. Don’t waste the momentum this program has modestly gained by keeping a coach that just isn’t living up to his salary and the results on the field.

rant over...gmg! And still hoping for some good wins.

wardly · October 15, 2020

His buy out is $4,275,000. Seth isn't going anywhere. Ever.

NorthTexasSportsNetwork · October 15, 2020

49 minutes ago, wardly said:

His buy out is $4,275,000. Seth isn't going anywhere. Ever.

Woah yeah that’s a high number

NorthTexasWeLove · October 15, 2020

55 minutes ago, wardly said:

His buy out is $4,275,000. Seth isn't going anywhere. Ever.

5 minutes ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

Woah yeah that’s a high number

So, that is true. Then fire the one that put us in this predicament, WB. And demand the new AD to fire SL once he/she deems it affordable to do so.

*Coaching salaries must be reworked across the board. All sports. University's are constantly being turned into welfare entities. Base salaries have to be low wage peanuts. Performance incentives must be the new standard for coaches earning their keep AND their money.

Tom McKrackin · October 15, 2020

MeanGreenTexan · October 15, 2020

1 hour ago, wardly said:

His buy out is $4,275,000. Seth isn't going anywhere. Ever.

Not sure where that number came from, but the buyout decreases over the life of the contract. So we're in year 2 of the 5-yr deal he signed prior to the 2019 season. It's likely still around $3million though.

GrandGreen · October 15, 2020

23 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Not sure where that number came from, but the buyout decreases over the life of the contract. So we're in year 2 of the 5-yr deal he signed prior to the 2019 season. It's likely still around $3million though.

His buyout obviously goes down as the years left in his contract go down.

I expect Seth is safe through next year, but unless he turns the team around; should be gone before the 2022 season.

wardly · October 15, 2020

It was listed in USA TODAY, which may or may not be totally accurate.

Udomann · October 15, 2020

1 hour ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

So, that is true. Then fire the one that put us in this predicament, WB. And demand the new AD to fire SL once he/she deems it affordable to do so.

Despite a miss-step here or there, Wren has been an absolute boon to our athletics dep. I was always more worried about him being stolen away than our coach.

I trust in Wren, and trust he's doing what needs to be done behind the scenes to turn this around before it turns into (or has it already?) a trainwreck.

NorthTexasWeLove · October 15, 2020

5 minutes ago, Udomann said:

Despite a miss-step here or there, Wren has been an absolute boon to our athletics dep. I was always more worried about him being stolen away than our coach.

I trust in Wren, and trust he's doing what needs to be done behind the scenes to turn this around before it turns into (or has it already?) a trainwreck.

He tied us to this. He did. No one else. And he has been silent. He knows there's nothing to be said. Football is king. And our football program needs rehab that it cannot afford because WB chose to agree to the lining of SL pockets.

letsgiveacheer · October 15, 2020

Some well-paid coaches have voluntarily taken a pay cut because of this virus. Does anyone know if SL did?

My wife, who works at Duke, has not received her 403b employer contribution for six months and it will be another six months before it resumes. I understand at North Texas, there is a hiring freeze and many full time faculty positions have gone empty this year.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/29468590/some-not-all-coaches-share-colleges-burden-amid-coronavirus-pandemic

GrandGreen · October 15, 2020

1 hour ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

He tied us to this. He did. No one else. And he has been silent. He knows there's nothing to be said. Football is king. And our football program needs rehab that it cannot afford because WB chose to agree to the lining of SL pockets.

Yes, the AD is responsible for all aspects of sports.

Why not go higher, and get rid of the President, Chancellor (if anyone knows who she is), and get a new board of regents.

The AD could not have signed anyone to a contract like Littrell's without their approval.

Baker appeared to have made a bad decision with the Littrell contract. However, anyone familiar with sports should know why it happened. Littrell had turned around a bad program and had one of the most aggressive agents around.

Don't downplay the job Baker has done on the overall NT athletic program. All sports other than football and possibly swimming are doing very well. Swimming, I think suffers from their facilities.

Baker may have erred with the Littrell contract, but that doesn't completely negate the positives he is responsible for.

meangreenbob · October 15, 2020

We find someone who is enthusiastic, lots of energy, knows football and wants to BE here. Someone who sees us as a major step up not a step down. We pay him 750k/yr. We then work a deal with Littrell to pay him “some” of the difference between 1.8m and 750k over several years until he’s paid off. Move on. This ship sank when Littrell was courting K-St before the ink had dried on a recent contract extension and pay raise from his current employer, The University of North Texas.

wardly · October 15, 2020

I would like to see our coach be from the state of Texas with a strong recruiting background. I also would rather hire an existing head coach, perhaps from Southland Conference, than a coordinator from outside the state. Our next coach should look at UNT as a step up, not a stepping stone.

greenminer · October 15, 2020

I think we've tried just about every kind of coach in Denton. Up and coming? Retiring? Former Assistant? Former HC? Knows Texas?

Just about all of them failed at one critical component: recruiting. Seth supposedly figured it out recently, after 3 years of failing too.

Now he just needs to explain this odd roster management and survive the strangest season ever. He won't be fired after 2020.

NorthTexasSportsNetwork · October 15, 2020

5 minutes ago, wardly said:

I would like to see our coach be from the state of Texas with a strong recruiting background. I also would rather hire an existing head coach, perhaps from Southland Conference, than a coordinator from outside the state. Our next coach should look at UNT as a step up, not a stepping stone.

I so wish we could poach Garrett Riley the SMU OC. He seems legit, and going from a OC to HC would make sense but I doubt it...

GrandGreen · October 15, 2020

37 minutes ago, meangreenbob said:

We find someone who is enthusiastic, lots of energy, knows football and wants to BE here. Someone who sees us as a major step up not a step down. We pay him 750k/yr. We then work a deal with Littrell to pay him “some” of the difference between 1.8m and 750k over several years until he’s paid off. Move on. This ship sank when Littrell was courting K-St before the ink had dried on a recent contract extension and pay raise from his current employer, The University of North Texas.

Why would Littrell agree to such a deal? Yes, I will take a longer payout than NT has contracted for, were I can be fired.

RBP79 · October 16, 2020

4 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

So, that is true. Then fire the one that put us in this predicament, WB. And demand the new AD to fire SL once he/she deems it affordable to do so.

*Coaching salaries must be reworked across the board. All sports. University's are constantly being turned into welfare entities. Base salaries have to be low wage peanuts. Performance incentives must be the new standard for coaches earning their keep AND their money.

Wren has accomplished more than I thought possible at this point in his tenure. I admit....I have criticized some of his decisions or in-decisions. Bottom line I have to believe he will act if and when he feels it's appropriate.

wardly · October 16, 2020

Also when he is financially able too.

NorthTexasWeLove · October 16, 2020

2 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Yes, the AD is responsible for all aspects of sports.

Why not go higher, and get rid of the President, Chancellor (if anyone knows who she is), and get a new board of regents.

The AD could not have signed anyone to a contract like Littrell's without their approval.

Baker appeared to have made a bad decision with the Littrell contract. However, anyone familiar with sports should know why it happened. Littrell had turned around a bad program and had one of the most aggressive agents around.

Don't downplay the job Baker has done on the overall NT athletic program. All sports other than football and possibly swimming are doing very well. Swimming, I think suffers from their facilities.

Baker may have erred with the Littrell contract, but that doesn't completely negate the positives he is responsible for.

The AD takes the parameters of a new deal to said people. Not vice versa. They act in good faith to the athletic director. But you know all of this.

untjim1995 · October 16, 2020

I wouldn’t fire WB now, but I would make it clear that if we have to fire SL with more than a year buyout, he will also lose his job. An AD has to lead the entire department, but the biggest piece of that pie is from profit and paying out 2+ years of a bad contract is fireable.

GrandGreen · October 16, 2020

5 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I wouldn’t fire WB now, but I would make it clear that if we have to fire SL with more than a year buyout, he will also lose his job. An AD has to lead the entire department, but the biggest piece of that pie is from profit and paying out 2+ years of a bad contract is fireable.

Wow, that would certainly assure that Littrell won't get fired.